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Old Sep 12, 2011, 11:11 PM
Joined Aug 2011
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Gorilla glue techniques

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Originally Posted by K2XR10 View Post
Do you mix the Gorilla glue with water prior to application, or do you dampen the foam before applying?
I am new to the hobby after a 20 year absence. Gorilla glue was a whole new deal for me.... epoxy, titebond and amberoid were my staples.....

I have learned through trial and error how to get good results with GG. If I'm doing a clean butt joint (no cavities) I never use water an am careful to use just a bead on the center of the joint. If I'm joining foam from an accident or want some filling action (foaming) to fill cavities, I do use water but just to damping the surfaces. I am careful to use a razor saw to remove the over expanded glue after it gets to the rubbery state (after the sticky state) and before it hardens. If I'm doing my leading edges with dowel stiffeners (for R-TECH) I first cut a piece of clear box packing tape and attach it to one side of the foam; I then get the dowel and run it under the faucet and hand wipe the excess water off; I next run a bead of GG down the leading edge and then place the dowel inplace; finally I carefully wrap the tape around the edge working from the center to the ends. For the wing spar (to foam) I do not use water but do use tape to hold the joint together on the top and bottom. The tape gives a nice finished look when painted. I use 5 min epoxy for the spar to dowel joints. When the model is complete, I tape all edges of the foam to get a finished look. The R-Tech film coating takes any paint very well. I use the Home Depot Rustolem 2X cover spray for $3.77 a can; lots of colors in the paint section.
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Old Sep 12, 2011, 11:15 PM
E28
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United States, AL, Troy
Joined May 2011
123 Posts
From the video, it flies great as is with elevons, however I would like your thoughts ailerons.
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Old Sep 12, 2011, 11:28 PM
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United States, IN, Indianapolis
Joined Dec 2005
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My guess re AILERONS coupled to the existing Elevons is ... BLURRRRROLLS !

Thats the way my smaller Tomhe F-22 and Mig-29 worked !

Caution start out with LOW RATES !

Bob
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Old Sep 12, 2011, 11:38 PM
Joined Aug 2011
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Quote:
Originally Posted by E28 View Post
From the video, it flies great as is with elevons, however I would like your thoughts ailerons.
Other than pazzazz , I see no need. I am an old kiss (keep it simple stupid) kind of guy. Ailerons or flaps add cost (servos), build time and weight and are not needed on the YF or the F-15 for any functional reason. As is, there is great roll and pitch control on both platforms. The YF has a well balanced response in pitch and roll. The F-15 is more responsive in pitch then in roll. I use 60% rate on the pitch to get a balanced feel with the roll on the F-15. In the design, I picked the YF verses the F-22 because the elevon had more surface area farther from the centerline giving more roll capability. I guessed right, it is well balanced without resorting to rate on the transmitter. With that said, one of the fun things of scratch building is expressing yourself. The plane can handle the weight.
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Old Sep 13, 2011, 12:00 AM
ski bum
Joined Oct 2009
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Otto Dieffenbach View Post
I have learned through trial and error...
Great descriptions and explanations. Thank you!

Now to go practice...
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Old Sep 13, 2011, 01:24 PM
Joined Aug 2011
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Motor equivalents to my Scorpion 3026-10, 981kv

According to the Scorpion website, here are some equivalent motors:

30mm S-Series

Scorpion Atlas AXI Dualsky
S-3026-10, 981 Kv 2927/08, 910 Kv 2826/10, 920 Kv XM4250CA-5, 1020 Kv


Hacker Himax Hyperion HXT
A30-10XL, 900 Kv HC3528-1000 Z3025-08, 985 Kv 35-48B, 900 Kv

RimFire Thunder Tiger
35-48-1000 OBL 36/09-46A, 910 Kv
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Old Sep 13, 2011, 03:27 PM
ski bum
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Old Sep 13, 2011, 04:34 PM
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United States, IN, Indianapolis
Joined Dec 2005
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Where do you reside ?

I can see the Columbia river about 40 miles from the Coast so I have Humidity.

NOTICE : Re YF-22 Plans


The plans were drawn on FLAT paper so the SIDES and Front bottom parts
are show the way they ought to be BUT,
IF you cut them that way and Angle them like the F-22 calls for
THEN they will be SHORT !

So make those parts about 1/2" taller than the Plans - OK !

I ran into that problem yesterday and thought I should let the Scratch Builders, here, know about it.

Also the Front Bottom foam plate is missing the "V" on the fromt edge to match with the
matching angle for the Inlets.

Ya might want to add an 1" long point and sand to suit !

Bob
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Old Sep 13, 2011, 05:42 PM
ski bum
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Old Sep 13, 2011, 06:02 PM
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San Jose, CA
Joined Mar 2006
65 Posts
so birdofplay, are you going to be offering these kits through your site?

if you are, for something of this size I would be interested in knowing the cost. shipping might be a pain, but i'm still interested. if material is any preference I prefer the pink foam you used.
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Old Sep 13, 2011, 08:08 PM
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United States, IN, Indianapolis
Joined Dec 2005
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Rimmy: Really ? !
I've been waiting two days for a supplier to Find/get me some 1/2" Blue !
It's not very popular out here in the NW And there is an OC plant near Portland.

Pink is easy.

I may have to do another F-22 as a test after I get the 1st one done for yet another parts check.

Price ? well ... , since I dont exactly know what material I will be using.,
it'll a bit before I get an good estimate. WAG is maybe $75 or less.

what do you think ?

Bob
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Old Sep 14, 2011, 03:28 PM
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San Jose, CA
Joined Mar 2006
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Quote:
Originally Posted by birdofplay View Post
Rimmy: Really ? !
I've been waiting two days for a supplier to Find/get me some 1/2" Blue !
It's not very popular out here in the NW And there is an OC plant near Portland.

Pink is easy.

I may have to do another F-22 as a test after I get the 1st one done for yet another parts check.

Price ? well ... , since I dont exactly know what material I will be using.,
it'll a bit before I get an good estimate. WAG is maybe $75 or less.

what do you think ?

Bob

actrually $75 is a fair price I'd say. its gigantic. i'm a pretty reasonable person too, so i expect that its not going to be cheap. if I wanted it cheap, I could cut it out myself. no, I want it done right, not cheap. cheap is how I crash all my other stuff! LOL

that being said, here in Commiefornia we cannot even get pink OR blue foam. no instead the DOW corporation had to make a purple compound that meets CalOSHA and NAFP requirements. so yea, I have PURPLE foam. so far it seems the same as the pink stuff to me. and its cheap. $12 for 32ft^2.

what I don't understand is the great pink blue debate anyway. if Otto can build these planes out of Poly Styrene, pink/blue shouldn't matter.

by any chance, would you be including the plywood cut pieces as well? I don't think its a deal breaker but it is a fair question.

my fun budget was greatly reduced lately, so I am in no rush, but if you were to start carrying the models, I am interested. in fact, i don't know if you remember a while back i wanted to know if we could make the F-14 model in this size. still interested in that as well. LOL

continue the good... no... GREAT work gentleman. if I can't make one, I always draw inspiration from others.
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Old Sep 14, 2011, 03:33 PM
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San Jose, CA
Joined Mar 2006
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also, just out of curiosity here, has anyone considered using this?

http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/s...idproduct=6565

might pretty much eliminate the torque roll from the frame. its going into my next plane! (I would love to use the F-22 as a test platform actually)
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Old Sep 14, 2011, 03:45 PM
Joined Aug 2011
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From the F-15 thread

This looks like a cheap alternate motor that should do the job well.

Originally Posted by wing_man
Thanks, motor shopping right now...

Dennis


Description
The G40 (50-45) brushless out-runner motor can replace a .40 - .46 two stroke nitro engines. It is equivalent to AXI 4010, more power than the E-Flite Power 32, but less than Power 46. It is capable of producing up to 7 lb of thrust and generate about 800W of power.

Specifications:

KV: Listed as 890, tested to be approx. 910.
Weight: 7.1oz (202g) for motor only, not including mounting accessories.
Motor Diameter: Approx. 50mm
Shaft diameter: 8mm
Max efficiency: Approx. 50A
Max Load: Approx. 60A
Motor Dimensions:



Recommended Setup:

80A Opto brushless motor ESC
3-5S LiPO and at least 4000-5000mAh.
Prop Selection: Remember to always use props designed for electric motors, nitro props are heavier and might overload the motor.
With 5S LiPO: 10x6
With 4S LiPO: 12x6, 11x7, 11x6
With 3S LiPO: 14x6, 11x8.5
The above prop selections are recommended for sports flying at open throttle. You may use slightly larger props if you do not fly at constant open throttle.

How about this one?

Otto's reply:

That one sounds great. What's the price/source? I did some visiting yesterday at Inov8tive Designs and they have a bunch of prop data. I now use an APC 10x7 prop at 981kv generating 5 lbs static thrust. The same motor will generate 6 lbs thrust with an APC 11x7. Their data indicates that with a Master Airscrew 10x7x3 3 blade at this kv you get the static thrust of the 11x7 but the amp draw of the 10x7. It was pretty conclusive that 4s with this prop and kv are a great combination for this plane.
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