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Old Sep 10, 2011, 10:13 PM
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Some thoughts that will probably just annoy...

Isn't it interesting that "after 9/11 our civil rights were trampled on..."

Can anyone say what rights were trampled on?

Or is this just an attempt to use Hitler's "BIG LIE". Say something often enough, loud enough and preposterous enough and soon everyone will take it as truth.

Thus the Republicans have been accused long, loud and often of destroying our civil rights, and then the Democrat party come in and does its best to trample civil rights and no-one reacts. And the ignorant Main Stream Media just loves it.

The president gives a speech with NO SUBSTANCE and we are supposed to accept it a the words of a god. (More like Dr Suess - Pass this jobs bill. Pass this jobs bill. Pass this jobs bill now! Pass this bill. Pass this bill. Pass this jobs bill now! Pass it now! Pass it Now! Pass this jobs bill now!)

Are we (Americans) so stupid and ignorant that we can't see that teh problem is not the TEA Party, but years of stupidity and spending of money that we don't have? And all our debt is to a country that is our avowed enemy? That has attacked us economically, electronically and is prepping an aircraft carrier and will probably attack our allies militarily because they know that the USA can't afford to take on China because China will just pull the financial carpet out from under us?

Ah yes... China is our friend and spending money you will never have is good financial policy... I guess that is why I, who have paid off my house, have to pay for other peoples mortgage reductions, so they won't have to meet their obligations...
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Old Sep 10, 2011, 10:20 PM
LcJ
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kf2qd View Post
Isn't it interesting that "after 9/11 our civil rights were trampled on..."

Can anyone say what rights were trampled on?

Or is this just an attempt to use Hitler's "BIG LIE". Say something often enough, loud enough and preposterous enough and soon everyone will take it as truth.

Thus the Republicans have been accused long, loud and often of destroying our civil rights, and then the Democrat party come in and does its best to trample civil rights and no-one reacts. And the ignorant Main Stream Media just loves it.

The president gives a speech with NO SUBSTANCE and we are supposed to accept it a the words of a god. (More like Dr Suess - Pass this jobs bill. Pass this jobs bill. Pass this jobs bill now! Pass this bill. Pass this bill. Pass this jobs bill now! Pass it now! Pass it Now! Pass this jobs bill now!)

Are we (Americans) so stupid and ignorant that we can't see that teh problem is not the TEA Party, but years of stupidity and spending of money that we don't have? And all our debt is to a country that is our avowed enemy? That has attacked us economically, electronically and is prepping an aircraft carrier and will probably attack our allies militarily because they know that the USA can't afford to take on China because China will just pull the financial carpet out from under us?

Ah yes... China is our friend and spending money you will never have is good financial policy... I guess that is why I, who have paid off my house, have to pay for other peoples mortgage reductions, so they won't have to meet their obligations...
Truth doesn't annoy.......it just informs.....
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Old Sep 10, 2011, 10:42 PM
Out of Time
United States, TX
Joined Jul 2003
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Originally Posted by kf2qd View Post
I guess that is why I, who have paid off my house, have to pay for other peoples mortgage reductions, so they won't have to meet their obligations...
That's the part that's going to piss off a lot of people, that is, all of us who were responsible and bought houses we could afford and still struggled to pay for them, and lived within our means; we are the ones who are paying for those who weren't responsible and who lived beyond their means because they never made the effort in the first place to do the hard work of earning the kind of income they would need to live their fantasy life.

I no longer feel sorry for any of the people who lost their homes by walking away from them when they found out that they couldn't afford them in the first place. Screw 'em.
We responsible people have been supporting the high salaries of government workers for way too long and it's time that they feel the pain that we in the private sector have been feeling for a long time.
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Old Sep 10, 2011, 10:47 PM
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Fallon, NV
Joined Mar 2007
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kf2qd View Post
Isn't it interesting that "after 9/11 our civil rights were trampled on..."

Can anyone say what rights were trampled on?
Are you familiar with any of the 'features' available to LE under the Patriot Act? Your comment indicates a possible hole in your knowledge base.
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Old Sep 11, 2011, 01:28 AM
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Adelaide, South Australia
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Originally Posted by Highflight View Post
I no longer feel sorry for any of the people who lost their homes by walking away from them when they found out that they couldn't afford them in the first place.
Correct me if I'm wrong but I understand that, in America, if someone finds they can't afford the repayments on their mortgage they just walk out and then it's up to the bank to try to sell the house to recoup as much as possible of what's still owed and the bank then most likely takes a loss, particularly nowadays with values dropping as they have. What I'm not sure I understand correctly is that, once the owners walk out, then they have no further obligation to make repayments on the mortgage?

If I do understand correctly then this simply doesn't happen in any other country that I'm aware of. You sign a contract and it's binding, other than the banks can change their interest rates at will (or so it seems ). If you buy a house that you find out you can't afford then bad luck, you still owe the full amount which must be paid back. In other words, a house loan is treated just like a loan for a car. Basically the only way the bank can lose money on a house loan is for the mortgagee to declare themselves bankrupt and who wants to do that? We also have to prove the ability to repay any mortgage before it'll be granted. Maybe this is why our banks have survived the recent crisis so well?
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Old Sep 11, 2011, 02:29 AM
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Originally Posted by downunder View Post
Correct me if I'm wrong but I understand that, in America, if someone finds they can't afford the repayments on their mortgage they just walk out and then it's up to the bank to try to sell the house to recoup as much as possible of what's still owed and the bank then most likely takes a loss, particularly nowadays with values dropping as they have. What I'm not sure I understand correctly is that, once the owners walk out, then they have no further obligation to make repayments on the mortgage?

If I do understand correctly then this simply doesn't happen in any other country that I'm aware of. You sign a contract and it's binding, other than the banks can change their interest rates at will (or so it seems ). If you buy a house that you find out you can't afford then bad luck, you still owe the full amount which must be paid back. In other words, a house loan is treated just like a loan for a car. Basically the only way the bank can lose money on a house loan is for the mortgagee to declare themselves bankrupt and who wants to do that? We also have to prove the ability to repay any mortgage before it'll be granted. Maybe this is why our banks have survived the recent crisis so well?
Generally that is correct, however, the persons who borrowed and walk away will not be able to borrow, might not be able even to open a bank account, will likely not be able to have utilities turned on at a new residence in their name, or if they do, will have to put down hefty deposits, due to their loss of credit rating. More properly, by declaring bankruptcy, the big boys do get burned, especially credit card companies, but the borrowers can fairly quickly restore their ability to borrow by doing it through the legal system. The differences, I suspect have to do with a distaste for debtor's prisons back when the country was founded.

Also, every state has different laws as to the protection from foreclosure, some require missing far more payments than others before the bank can act.

But in more normal economic times, those who cannot make house payments for whatever reason, most often the result of divorce or medical bills, they will be able to attempt to "short sell" the house before foreclosure, or if foreclosed, of course the mortgager has a better chance of recouping their money.

I think the new feature that is happening today is the folks who owe $300,000 on house now worth only $200,000 are the ones walking away. Their ability to pay the mortgage may not be the issue, it would be the desire not to own a home where they are "under water" meaning owing much more on the house than its current value. I guess they feel it is worth damaging their ability to borrow to get out from under such a situation.
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Old Sep 11, 2011, 03:53 AM
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United Kingdom, Aberdeen
Joined Sep 2000
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kf2qd View Post
Isn't it interesting that "after 9/11 our civil rights were trampled on..."

Can anyone say what rights were trampled on?

Or is this just an attempt to use Hitler's "BIG LIE". Say something often enough, loud enough and preposterous enough and soon everyone will take it as truth.

Thus the Republicans have been accused long, loud and often of destroying our civil rights, and then the Democrat party come in and does its best to trample civil rights and no-one reacts. And the ignorant Main Stream Media just loves it.

The president gives a speech with NO SUBSTANCE and we are supposed to accept it a the words of a god. (More like Dr Suess - Pass this jobs bill. Pass this jobs bill. Pass this jobs bill now! Pass this bill. Pass this bill. Pass this jobs bill now! Pass it now! Pass it Now! Pass this jobs bill now!)

Are we (Americans) so stupid and ignorant that we can't see that teh problem is not the TEA Party, but years of stupidity and spending of money that we don't have? And all our debt is to a country that is our avowed enemy? That has attacked us economically, electronically and is prepping an aircraft carrier and will probably attack our allies militarily because they know that the USA can't afford to take on China because China will just pull the financial carpet out from under us?

Ah yes... China is our friend and spending money you will never have is good financial policy... I guess that is why I, who have paid off my house, have to pay for other peoples mortgage reductions, so they won't have to meet their obligations...
Couple of matters of simple fact that just don't smell right there.

Firstly all of the US debt is not owned by China - there is a fair proportion owned by Japan and by the UK as well. To name but two.

Secondly - how is China the avowed enemy of the United States? She isn't, in any meaningful way, unless you choose her to be. Do you view Russia as an enemy of the USA, as well?

As for the temerity of the Chinese to dare to start commissioning an aircraft carrier - how many aircraft carriers does the US Navy have? What gives the US any right to complain about any other sovereign nation deciding to buikd an aircraft carrier?
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Old Sep 11, 2011, 04:36 AM
Official Old Git!
Hampshire, UK
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I can't understand the apparent US way of 'if you have a problem to face, then find someone to hate' that appears in many of these threads.

How about - face the bloomin' problem!
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Old Sep 11, 2011, 05:29 AM
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You have to bear in mind that there are 'Americans' and 'neo facist right wing haters' - not the same animal at all Norman!
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Old Sep 11, 2011, 05:44 AM
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What strikes me as strange is that the USA, with a budget deficit dwarfing that of, e.g., Ireland or Greece is not seeming to have to go through the same exercise of cuts in government spending as is being experienced in Europe.
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Old Sep 11, 2011, 05:46 AM
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Originally Posted by martin richards View Post
What strikes me as strange is that the USA, with a budget deficit dwarfing that of, e.g., Ireland or Greece is not seeming to have to go through the same exercise of cuts in government spending as is being experienced in Europe.
Yet Martin - yet
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Old Sep 11, 2011, 05:56 AM
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Originally Posted by martin richards View Post
What strikes me as strange is that the USA, with a budget deficit dwarfing that of, e.g., Ireland or Greece is not seeming to have to go through the same exercise of cuts in government spending as is being experienced in Europe.
Surely it's a matter of choice, Martin?

The US Government have chosen not to implement swingeing cuts in government spending, compared to countries like, for instance, the UK.

Alternatively, in the Eurozone, the controls in place, which take some of that decision-making process out of the hands of sovereign nations, require countries in dire straits, like Eire and Greece to be compelled to put in place cuts in spending well beyond what thy would desire to make, of their own free will.

There are many posters in this forum that would welcome swingeing cuts in Government spending in the US federal budgets. Well, they would welcome them right up until they were imposed by external forces, anyway. At that point, you can guarantee that there would be outrage at cuts in government spending, if such were imposed by the IMF or some other shadowy international agency
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Old Sep 11, 2011, 06:58 AM
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It seems some people have not been listening... as many here have talking about the need for government to cut, cut, cut. As it is the spending that is the problem.

I guess that bit falls on def ears, as it does not support the repeated complaining about a certain 'type' of American....
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Old Sep 11, 2011, 07:12 AM
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Most of the American debt in bonds is owned by Americans.....

A problem is something that is politically expedient to beat some opponent over the head with, while doing nothing about the problem....

Imagine the government battening down the hatches and laying off half the work force in order to protect their capital and wait for the economy to swing back, we would have huge debts and unemployment. A good portion of our debt came from wars, Bush tax cuts one and two, FICA tax cuts, stimulus, extended unemployment benefits, bail outs, increase in food stamps due to unemployment, establishment of Homeland Security, and the growth of government under Bush II, so much of that spending, or tax cuts were elective measures. Getting Grandma her thyroid medication through Medicare is not an elective, promises were made to her.... same with her SS check.

We spent ourselves into bad financial shape after 9/11, and when the financial crisis hit, we were in pitiful shape and so were many if not most states, and local governments. No one saw this coming, but more importantly, they lived on the edge during the good times, when tax revenues were high, rather than stowing away some of that surplus for just such an event. Irresponsible governments up and down the line, with regard to budget. Once we get into recession and high unemployment, can anyone argue austerity measures by the governments will further beat down or at least suppress recovery by putting more folks out on the street? Those gov. workers are in line to get unemployment checks. It is hard times. Rather than rally round the cause, we point fingers.
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Old Sep 11, 2011, 07:23 AM
Official Old Git!
Hampshire, UK
Joined Sep 2000
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I have yet to figure out how tax cuts i.e. not collecting money that could be used to pay debts, but is supposed to encourage people to spend more (i.e. get further into debt ) is somehow a mysterious way of 'boosting' the economy.

(I guess that buying a new TV makes people so happy they don't notice that the problem has just got worse... )

And as for 'give the rich and businesses bigger tax cuts'... all based on the 'well, they might give it back in the form of the odd job or two - or they might just keep it as part of their bottom line' vague hope... seems akin to hoping the fairies will come and smooth all your troubles away.

(I've got to admit this 'trickle down economy thing' always comes across to me as incredibly feudal - where if you please the Lord of The Manor, he'll possibly grant you the odd groat.. if he's feeling generous that day! )
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