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Old Sep 17, 2011, 03:06 AM
life long racing nut & modeler
granada don's Avatar
Granada Hills Ca.
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Hi E

This watts per lb stuff is all new to me and very hard to learn for a old dude like me, so for my E Paragon i sent a note to Nippon Dave who runs Hyperion and he gave me a list of what to use that was all made by the same company i think it might be a bit over powered but since i'am a racer guy from way back i figured a little more is better than not enough.

Maybe after flying it i could start to learn all the correct sizes for what i was building at least i would have a good starting point.
Your motor package sounds like a good fit for my E bird above then i could get rid of the heavy astro flight motor and have me a floater again for the light days here too!!

G Don
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Old Sep 20, 2011, 07:22 AM
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Don your e bird reminds me of the Cebola axe. Very cool I love the open structure.
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Old Sep 20, 2011, 04:38 PM
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Granada Hills Ca.
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Thanks Doc

Back in the day the club guys were building standard fuse's, so at times i have been a ' Wild and Crazy guy ' i thought i would try a different build & look and it turned out pretty light and cool looking kinda like my new Woody Roadster now that also has a different look to it and thats what is so cool about the scratch stuff just let her rip!!

Just cleaning a part of my bench to get back on the Woody, too many projects not enough time and pa'zazz

How is your Crimson coming along, Doc?

G Don
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Old Sep 20, 2011, 05:05 PM
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Well slow, and its not even the plane ,its life in general, but I'm planing a major jam session on it the shop needs to be cleaned and reorganized.I finally finished a job that was supposed to be done in June,luckily the customer is a good guy.I am going to try for an October maiden, only four months late,Johnny is having the same type of problems ,no time .Now I'm going to make time.I'm supposed to be retired, Yea right.I do love my wood planes ,I tried a couple of foamy's they just don't do it for me.This winter should be a good build session though I have to get projects completed so I can build a mirage.After all the scratch building, and foam I'm really looking forward to lazer cut parts , and some ones engineering other than my own.LOL.
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Old Sep 20, 2011, 10:43 PM
MrE
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Speaking of Mirages... I started the short kit Saturday. I have the center wing section almost done and one tip panel about 1/2 done. Still need to install the spoilers and sheet the center section and glass it plus some finish sanding. The tip panel need the shears added and the joiner box and end rib done.

The lazer cut parts do build fast!
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Old Sep 21, 2011, 12:17 AM
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Cool we have not seen a good mirage build in some time.I hope you will post pictures, that will generate lots of interest, and motivation for those of us that are going to build one..Can't wait.
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Old Sep 21, 2011, 01:15 AM
MrE
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Havent taken any pics so far. Havent wanted to take the time. Plus, I havent done anything non-stock so far.

Well, I am deviating from Marks (Isthmus Models) kits in one detail. Mark beefed up the shear webs for a stronger spar to make the plane stronger for winch launching. Im doing e-power so Im making the shear webs per the original plan. I am changing all the turbulators to spruse though. I just know I would be breaking them all the time if I didnt.

Im getting ready to do something a little different on the spoilers - single servo mounted in the wing in the center section driving two outboard spoilers via strings. I'll use springs like the DLG guys use (see above posts for pics) to keep the spoilers closed.

The spoilers will be 4 bays wide and go from the rear of the spar to the rear top turbulator. Each one is about 1.5" wide by 10.75" long. The single servo will be an HS-81.

My thinking on this is the single servo is about the same weight as 2 HS-55's with a little more total torque. Haveing one in the center saves me the weight of the extensions plus it moves a little more weight to the center.

Ive seen several examples of similar setups where the spoiler servo is mounted in the fuse ahead of the wing. I would rather plug in an extension than mess with the pull strings. Plus I need the area just ahead of the wing open so I can (hopefully) install my battery packs under the wing on the cg.

None of thats really new - just combining ideas from different places with some slight twists
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Old Sep 21, 2011, 01:42 AM
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Granada Hills Ca.
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Hi E & Doc

Just reading you post about using 1/8" spurce turb. spars i have had a few rough landings with my 100" E bird and never broke any of the balsa one's, the neat thing about a Mirage & Paragon is the way they turn on a dime and that is because both Blaine & Ed kept the tips very light in their design's so you might think about the stock balsa spar's at least in the tips.

If you look close you can see that i wrapped the joiner's & boxe's with polyester button thread just to keep them from splitting open with a cartwheel landing that can happen sometimes.

In 80' when i joined the S.F. V. Silent Flyers i lucked out because 3 famous kit builders were in the club, Blaine and his Mirage - Ed Slobod the Paragon and Dick Odle the RO8 and Bill Watson and his Goose so i had a neat group to mentor me into scratch building and designing your own planes just could not have been any better than that!!

G Don
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Old Sep 21, 2011, 02:37 AM
MrE
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I was more worried about breaking them while handling/installing/removing than in a crash.

Now you have me worried about tip weight again!

Originally I was thinking about using 1/8x3/16 balsa per a comment by Mark Drella in one of the old build threads. Then I got lazy and decided that was too much work to mod all those ribs.

Hmmmmm. Decisions, decisions....
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Old Sep 21, 2011, 07:16 AM
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Granada Hills Ca.
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Each week at the field Ed would be looking at his plane watching how it would turn etc looking for the sweet spot in his new design and it would take weeks & month's building new wings with a bit of change to get it right, then he could come out with a new kit but only after he was very happy the way the glider performed in all area's.

So light tips do matter a bunch, and when working with the Mirage wing you keep in mind of where your hands & fingers are and your balsa spar's will be fine!!

G Don
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Old Sep 21, 2011, 08:27 AM
Herk
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MrE - my ancient Mirage has balsa all the way, and they have not been a problem. They are not as fragile as you might imagine. The rib spacing gives them good support. Just choose the wood - straight grain and firm grade of balsa.
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Old Sep 21, 2011, 01:09 PM
MrE
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Ok guys, you talked me into it - balsa it is!
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Old Sep 21, 2011, 02:11 PM
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Alright E back with the program !!

G Don
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Old Sep 21, 2011, 05:00 PM
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Not too long ago, I electrified an ancient Monarch. That was a very popular dlg at one time. I went for something like, as I recall, 60 or 70 watts per pound, but I also used only a 6 inch prop, to minimize drag when folded. It climbed fine, though it wasn't really up to ALES altitude in 30 seconds. Depended a lot on which battery I was using, it turned out. Prop was a 6 inch Graupner, tweaked according to Mark Drela's instructions. Even though I was klutzy about it, it seemed to help some. Came out at 11 oz., which was within an ounce, I think, of what they used to weigh originally as pure hlg's.


I think you may not have to get too crazy about weight savings for the Mirage. At the time it was designed, a regular, standard size radio would have weighed 10 or 12 ounces! Now, that would be more like 2 or 3 ounces plus the flight battery, which used to be 4 ounces. So you've got some slack to play with.

If you're worried about nose weight, stretch the nose a couple of inches. Maybe do that part last after arranging all the equipment. Then the flight battery can be on the c.g.
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Last edited by lincoln; Sep 21, 2011 at 05:01 PM. Reason: "designed" was "built"
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Old Sep 22, 2011, 03:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by granada don View Post

In 80' when i joined the S.F. V. Silent Flyers i lucked out because 3 famous kit builders were in the club, Blaine and his Mirage - Ed Slobod the Paragon and Dick Odle the RO8....

G Don
Hi Don, impressed at the talent within the SFV Silent Flyers! Seeing the Paragon, Mirage and RO-8 fly, what are your observations as to how each of those light wing loaded gliders performed?
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