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Old Jan 15, 2012, 02:25 PM
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craigrrr's Avatar
San Diego area
Joined Jul 2006
522 Posts
Lightness of Mirage a great advantage for E

One thing I love about the Mirage is it can be easily built to 35 oz and electrified to 40 oz.

Because this three meter sailplane is so light, the electrical components can be
light, inexpensive, and add very little weight to the unpowered version.
My motor costs $14, battery $9, speed control $12. And delivers many climbouts when the lift is not good.

Craig
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Old Jan 15, 2012, 03:43 PM
life long racing nut & modeler
granada don's Avatar
Granada Hills Ca.
Joined Nov 2009
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Mark

Contact Nippon Dave at Hyperion and he will fix you right up with a total Hyperion power package, then you will have all the same brand of parts that are designed to work together.

Dave did that for me for my E Paragon that will be called the ' Electra'gon ' , its maybe a bit over powered but i would rather have too much than not enough. ' Hot Rodders never have enough power '

I have the GS 3020-12 with the long tapered nose for a better fit in a sailplane.

G Don
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Old Jan 15, 2012, 05:38 PM
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hog2soar's Avatar
Central California
Joined Jan 2010
951 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark Miller View Post
I have always wanted to make an electric Mirage...El-Mirage?

I'm not to well versed in the electric side of things. So many power setups. It gets confusing. Is there a current Hyperion motor that will work well?

I had a customer back a few years ago increase the rib spacing on the tips to stretch the span and went to a V-Tail. He used it as a test bed for a telemetry system for a UAV.

Mark
Mark,

Go to the Hyperion site and look at their motors specifically for sailplanes. They have all the specs and data you need. RPM's,Watts Amps Volts,Prop size,etc. Everthing you need and not a whole lot of guessing.
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Old Jan 15, 2012, 06:26 PM
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Mark Miller's Avatar
St. Louis, MO
Joined Oct 2002
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Im a Hyperion dealer and would like to put together a package for an e version. Yes I know the specs are there but what are the specs I need?

Mark
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Old Jan 15, 2012, 06:38 PM
life long racing nut & modeler
granada don's Avatar
Granada Hills Ca.
Joined Nov 2009
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Like i say Mark, ask Dave as that is a service he offers.

G Don
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Old Jan 15, 2012, 06:52 PM
MrE
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United States, WA, Gig Harbor
Joined Aug 2007
2,007 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark Miller View Post
I have always wanted to make an electric Mirage...El-Mirage?

I'm not to well versed in the electric side of things. So many power setups. It gets confusing. Is there a current Hyperion motor that will work well?

I had a customer back a few years ago increase the rib spacing on the tips to stretch the span and went to a V-Tail. He used it as a test bed for a telemetry system for a UAV.

Mark
Hi Mark, I hate to say this, but the answer to your question is - it depends

You need to decide it you want a rocket ship that weighs 1/3 more than a stock Mirage or if you want to keep the weight right at or below stock while still being competitive in ALES contests.

The Hacker motor I ended up with weighs 55 grams and puts out a little over 200 watts with the battery pack and prop Im using. That leaves me with an El-Mirage that weighs less then the original and still has enough power to compete very nicely in ALES contests.

I think any extra power/weight would be a waste unless you were going to fly in very hi winds - which I wont do anyway.

Why build the model with permanent ballast you cant take out?

Im using a Hacker A20-20L that weighs 55 gms and has a kV of 1022.

On the Bubble Dancer Im building Im going to use the A20-22L which is the same weight but a lower kV of 924. Im doing that so I can spin a larger prop at the same power levels. Should be more efficient and have more thrust for the same power levels - or close.

The closest Hyperion glider motor to the hacker Im using is the G2213-20. It weighs an extra 10 grams but can handle a tad more power. Its 65 gms and has a kV of 1030.

The have a new GS version, the GS2213-16. Its not available in the low kV versions though. It starts at 1175 kV, but can handle more power, so you could probably still use an 11" prop and be ok. You will need a larger esc and packs though which means more weight. if your careful, you could probably still keep it to no more than 1 or 2 ounces extra.

You dont really need the glider version of the motor though. There is plenty of room in the Mirage nose for a standard outrunner - like the Hacker or the normal Hyperion motors.

Id actually recommend you go with the Z2213-20. Its almost identical to the Hacker Im using. That tapered glider nose on the other motors costs some weight.

Another thing to consider is how you plan to build the basic Mirage. If you're not going to build it extra light like I did, then you might want to stick with the Hyperion GS2213-16 motor for the extra power it will give. That will likely put you into the 35-40 ounce range vrs 32-33oz, but you should still be competitive in ALES contests.

Thats not to say that any of the recommendations anyone else has made are wrong or bad choices. Like I said - it depends
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Old Jan 15, 2012, 07:01 PM
MrE
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United States, WA, Gig Harbor
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Quote:
Originally Posted by granada don View Post
Like i say Mark, ask Dave as that is a service he offers.

G Don
Don, I dont think Nippon Dave is still with Hyperion. Rumor has it he has moved on. I recently read that his last post here on RCG was well over a year ago.
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Old Jan 15, 2012, 07:32 PM
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Central California
Joined Jan 2010
951 Posts
Mark,

I'm putting a Hyperion 2218-12 with a 14x8 folding prop.a 60A ESC (even though it calls for a 45A) and a 3s 35C 2200 mAh Lipo in a 3.2M 66 oz. Sailplane. Your mirage is much lighter than that so it would work with plenty of power to spare.

Look at the specs and shoot for around 100W per pound of plane. So if your Mirage weighs 2.5 pounds you would be looking at about 250 watts. At 3 pounds you would be looking a 300Watts.

I would suspect a HP-GS 2218-10 with the watts over 300 with either a 2s Battery or a 3s battery would be good

Or you could go with a 2218-12 with a 10x6 or 11x6 prop. A 3s battery and a 35 or 45A esc.

Someone with a little more expertise could tell you more .

If you go to the electric site and the Ales thread and put Hyperion Motor you will see some planes comparable in size using those motors.
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Old Jan 15, 2012, 10:33 PM
MrE
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United States, WA, Gig Harbor
Joined Aug 2007
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark Miller View Post
Im a Hyperion dealer and would like to put together a package for an e version. Yes I know the specs are there but what are the specs I need?

Mark
If you're putting together a power package for the general public, you should probably err on the side of MORE POWER rather than less weight. Most people would rather have a rocket ship than a floater when it comes to e-sailplanes.

Maybe you could have two options. One for the serious thermal types and one for the 'Tim the Toolman' types

I have to admit that in the heat of a contest when Im watching those heavy, over powered models zoom out of site in a fraction of the time it takes me, deep down inside, Im just a little envious.....
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Old Jan 15, 2012, 11:15 PM
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granada don's Avatar
Granada Hills Ca.
Joined Nov 2009
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I gotta tell ya to see my E Paragon climb out at 45 degrees would be pretty cool , so for my first new E bird i will go with the larger power package.

Then with some E flight time under my belt i can pick the combo i need next time.

More Power You bet let her rip!!

G Don

P.S.

I was wondering if Dave was still with them as i did not see his posts either.
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Last edited by granada don; Jan 16, 2012 at 12:53 AM.
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Old Nov 08, 2012, 02:44 PM
MrE
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United States, WA, Gig Harbor
Joined Aug 2007
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Wow I cant believe its been almost a year since my last up-date to this thread! Been haveing tooo much fun flying my Mirage I guess

I am very pleased with how the model has performed this year. Its very competitive in ALES contest flying and very relaxing for sport flying. If I ever need to build another one I think the only change Id make is larger spoilers. Mine are 4 bays long x about 1.25" wide. I would go 5 bays long x 1.5" wide next time. There have been several times this year when I got into strong lift that the current spoilers just weren't enough to get it down and I was forced to do spirals.

On one of those descents I let it get too tightly wound up and it went vertical and the wing fluttered. The only damage was two broken joiners. The tape held the tips on and I was able to land it easily, but it was still very nerve wracking!!

Last year I also started building a Bubble Dancer. Oh boy! Thats is one technical and tedious build. Its taking me forever, but I finally got the pod and boom fuse built, tail feathers built and covered and the power system installed. The wing is only about 1/8 done and will likely take me the rest of the winter to finish.

But - I had a wild thought yesterday. Why not try the Mirage wing on the Bubble dancer fuse???

Ive been planning all along to mount the Bubble dancer wing with rubber bands instead of bolts, so I thought it should be fairly easy.

Getting the cg right for both wings turned out to be a bit of a challenge but I think Ive got it worked out. The BD wing is 10.5" cord in the center with the CG roughly 3.75 inches back. The Mirage wing is 9" cord and I have my CG 4.5" back.

That meant I had to be able to move the CG 3/4" when I changed wings. That required some mods to the interior of the pod to allow the battery to slide further than I had planned but there was plenty of room to work with.

Im almost done with the mods - just need to do some touch ups, finish the canopy shaping and a final assembly and testing.

I decided to weight the pod and boom set up and compare it to my existing Mirage balsa fuse setup. Turns out the pod and boom setup is 4 ounces lighter!

By the time Im done painting and a couple of minor adjustments it might only be 3 ounces lighter, but thats still very nice.

How about a sub 30 ounce E-Mirage

Cant wait to try it out!!
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Old Nov 08, 2012, 06:50 PM
Balsa addiction since age 3
ScottSails's Avatar
Upstate NY
Joined May 2005
1,222 Posts
Awesome to hear you have been flying the heck out of it!
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Old Nov 09, 2012, 04:30 PM
MrE
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United States, WA, Gig Harbor
Joined Aug 2007
2,007 Posts
Thanks Scott. Its my favorite model at the moment

Just got back from the maiden of my Bubble Dancer-Mirage hybrid - I like it! It feels like it floats noticeably better in very light lift and it handles smoother.

I need a few more flights to get the spoiler and throttle to elevator mixes dialed in, but so far, I really like the way it fly's

I think Im going to retire the balsa fuse and use this one all the time.

I'll post some pics later....

Larry
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Old Nov 09, 2012, 08:13 PM
Gasbags & Gussets
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Riverside, Ca
Joined Feb 2009
1,179 Posts
thanks for the updates

Quote:
Originally Posted by MrE View Post
...I think Im going to retire the balsa fuse and use this one all the time.I'll post some pics later....Larry
Hi Larry.
Thanks for the regular updates. I am looking forward to the pictures of the BD fuse/Mirage wing

My next build is the Mirage and what struck me was how easy it would be to build two fuses, one each for string and e-power launch. I think 12/1/12 would be a great kick-off date for my Mirage build - i love seing your guy's Mirage build info and techniques!!

I am with you on the low power/small prop/small battery requirments for these lightweight models. Here is a snapshot of a 1980's NIB kit (Ultra MkIV)i finally finished and flew last weekend - it only uses 200w, R/E/Motor, 3s lipo@850mah, 10x6 folder, 85" span,and flying weight is 27oz for a wingloading of 5.2oz per square foot.


take care, john s.
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Old Nov 09, 2012, 11:08 PM
MrE
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United States, WA, Gig Harbor
Joined Aug 2007
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Nice looking model John!

I think its really cool that technology has come far enough for us to build electric versions of these older planes and have them come out at virtually the same - or even lighter - than the pure glider versions did.

I agree with you. The Mirage fuse is a very simple build and lends itself well to adding a motor on the front. You can shave off some more weight when you build the e-version too.

Its certainly a lot easier and cheaper than this pod and boom fuse. Actually, it wasn't really a difficult build at all.

The pod is just a balsa shell with some light fiberglass over it and paint. I built a balsa "box" from 1/8" sheet stock sized so that everything would fit inside, based roughly on the Bubble Dancer plans. Then I laminated some 3/8 soft balsa sheet over that box. Then it was just a matter of shaping and sanding most of the 3/8 sheet off, rounding and tapering as I went, until I liked the final shape.

The boom I ordered from Mountain Models. The tail feathers are per the Bubble Dancer plan and they were a fairly easy build too. I was going to make my own carbon fiber V support/pivot for the all flying stab, but I got lazy and ordered one for an Ava from Kennedy Composites.

Im pretty pleased with the final weights. If I can build my Bubble Dancer wing half way close to the weight of the original, I might end up with an e-Bubble Dancer thats just a few ounces over the pure sailplane weight

Here are a couple of poor cell phone shots from today.


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