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Old Sep 30, 2011, 10:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Magic k2 View Post
Im in work and havnt flown for two days but have you tried taking the canopy off to see any change in drift ? the vibes from it touching the rx could also do this,will see if elastic band around the rx does anything later,,dont want to fly in the house with this bird anyhoo but want it tight for inverted hover.

Hmm, maybe that explains what I observed with the canopy on vs off.

Quote:
Originally Posted by USMC0351CPLRICCI View Post
I had to rebind mine while it was in 6 axis mode with 0 trim/subtrim, and place a thinner mounting pad to get rid of the 6 axis drift. Also the tail fin is do flimsy it vibrates and causes the heli to drift same issue I hade with my trex 550e . I chopped it off. Now I have zero drift in 6axis mode.

I thout it was the firmware but its not also the tail rotor I tossed it was out of ballance to stiff for such a little bird. Msr tail blade brings the tail to life..
Looks like I've got some more testing to do to see if I can get the same results. Thanks guys.
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Old Sep 30, 2011, 10:14 PM
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For those who went brushless did they get any more power? Like was it worth it? Also is it still holding up and as durable???

Thanks
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Old Sep 30, 2011, 10:35 PM
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Los Angeles
Joined Oct 2006
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Found out Difference Between 3 Axis and 6 Axis

Finally figure out how the 6 axis mode works. Too hard to explain with words. Picture will make it obvious.


How 6 Axis Gyro Works on the Walkera Genius (0 min 28 sec)


3 axis mode is 3 gyros like all the other flybarless. The 3 other axis are for self leveling. The 4th to 6th axis are accelerometers instead of gyros. To say that this is a 6 axis gyro is not correct. Is 3 gyros and 3 accelerometer.

Because 3 gyros are enough to completely resolve the rotation of the helicopter in any direction. 6 gyros would be redundant. Same thing with accelerometer. 3 accelerometers are enough to resolve the acceleration of the helicopter in any direction.

The accelerometer is actually not used to sense the acceleration of the helicopter as I thought. Instead, is used to sense the direction of gravity. Just like those digital leveler use accelerometers to sense gravity. It just keeps the helicopter level.

So if the helicopter has a drift to left, you can tilt the receiver board to the left to compensate for it. Just don't do it too much, or the axis of the gyro will not be pointed at the pitch,yaw, roll axis of the helicopter anymore.

In conclusion, my previous post about sliding the helicopter across the table is not how the helicopter is designed to operate. The accelerometers were never meant to compensate for position of the helicopter, but just to level the helicopter if that makes sense.
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Old Sep 30, 2011, 10:57 PM
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Here's a repeat of what was posted last month about 6 axis "accelerometer":

Quote:
Originally Posted by i812 View Post
I think the internet search gave the right idea: accelerometer is able to detect linear forces, and gyro is able to detect rotational forces.

I recently got an Iphone4, and it also has a 3 axis accelerometer, and 3 axis gyro. I downloaded an application that displays their outputs. Although I still don't know how the accelerometers produce their outputs, I am now able to predict how their output signals change with movement and position as follows:

The 3 axis (linear) accelerometer has three outputs: X, Y, and Z (left/right, forward/backward, up/down). When the 3 axis accelerometer is not moving, their outputs can be used to determine which direction is DOWN (towards the Earth's Center due to Force of Gravity). So no matter which angle the 3 axis accelerometer is oriented, the DOWN direction can be determined by looking at its output signals. I suppose a "fictitious" example would be like having a ball partially filled with water inside, and "weight" sensors all around the ball being able to detect the location of the weight/position of the water - no matter which angle the ball was oriented, because of the Earth's Force of Gravity forcing the water to concentrate in the DOWN direction, and the sensors ability to indicate the location of the water, the sensors would be able to locate the DOWN direction.

Also, the 3 axis accelerometer detects changes in speed. Back to the example of the "fictitious" Ball with water and "weight sensors, if the ball had a change in movement, the "inertia" (weight drag) of the water would tend make the water "move" (actually resist movement) in the opposite direction, the sensors in the ball would sense the "extra" weight/force, and provide an indication of which direction and how strong the change in movement is. An interesting side note is if the 3 axis accelerometer is (accelerating) in free fall under the Earth's Force of Gravity, it no longer outputs the DOWN direction (i.e. in the Ball with the water example, during free fall, the water doesn't exert a downward force on the ball, since the ball is moving just as fast DOWN as the water is!).

The 3 Gyros measure angular rotation (AIL/roll, EL/pitch, and RUD/yaw). If the 3 Gyros are stationary, then all 3 outputs are zero (plus noise). Their outputs only change when their axis are rotated. I can hold the Iphone in my hand while sitting in a swivel chair, spin the chair around, and the 3 axis accelerometer doesn't detect much; however the 3 Gyro will produce an output signal in the direction of axis rotation, and proportional to the rate of spin.

I'm not a mathematician (chemist, or physicist?), but it appears we live in a "6 degrees of freedom" world, because things (especially tiny things) can move in the 3 linear directions as well as at the same time independently rotate about the 3 axis!

I think the $150 Iphone 4 may have more "blind" navigation capability built in with its 3 axis linear accelerometer, 3 axis gyro, magnetometer (electronic compass), and GPS, than the ICBM's had in the early part of the Cold War!

Doesn't look like we need human navigators anymore! (only remote programmers in chairs)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jtkg6lr746M
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Old Sep 30, 2011, 11:06 PM
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Joined Dec 2009
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Quote:
Originally Posted by i812 View Post
Here's a repeat of what was posted last month about 6 axis "accelerometer":
So, what's the name of the iPhone app? That's sounds fun to play with. Great info, btw! This explains the drift being just a slight mislaignment of the rx.

Rafa
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Last edited by Rafa's CB100; Sep 30, 2011 at 11:13 PM.
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Old Sep 30, 2011, 11:08 PM
RC Helis: My Healthy Obsession
The OC, California
Joined Feb 2007
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Quote:
Originally Posted by helicraze View Post
For those who went brushless did they get any more power? Like was it worth it? Also is it still holding up and as durable???

Thanks
I have 2 BL versions now and it is definitely worth it. Once you go brushless you will never go back to brushed on this heli. It wakes the heli up and performance is awesome. Way more climbout power. Just add the MCP new tail blade and your set.
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Old Sep 30, 2011, 11:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ScottAllyn View Post
Below is a comparison photo of some of my batteries. From left to right,
  • Stock 200 mAh battery
  • Hyperion G3 CX 240 mAh
  • ZIPPY 350 mAh
  • Hyperion G3 CX 320 mAh
So far, besides the stock batteries, I've only flown the Zippy and I can get ~10 minutes of indoor flight out of it. The 320 mAh Hyperion is too wide to fit into the battery compartment, so that one's a bust. I'll wire up the 240s this weekend.

How do you solder those? How do you know which one is negative? Is it easer to solder then a MCPX tail?
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Old Sep 30, 2011, 11:14 PM
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United States, FL, Lutz
Joined Sep 2011
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The bit that's still not quite clicking in my head is why, in the 6-axis mode, does the swash tilt in the direction of the "involuntary" movement. Wouldn't sliding the Genius forward on a surface look the same as unintended forward movement in the air to the accelerometers? If there's going to be any type of correction, tilting the swash backwards (to stop or slow that forward movement) makes more sense to me.
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Old Sep 30, 2011, 11:20 PM
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Thanks DKfuji, so just leave brushed tail and get MCPX rotor? Is it worth just getting the mcpx tail rotor regardless of being brushless or not?

So will it tic toc? What do i need for BL setup? Thanks
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Old Sep 30, 2011, 11:22 PM
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United States, FL, Lutz
Joined Sep 2011
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scar308 View Post
How do you solder those? How do you know which one is negative? Is it easer to solder then a MCPX tail?
Here's a video that may help:

E Flite Blade MSR High Capacity Battery Making Short Form Method (7 min 37 sec)


There are + and - marks printed on the batteries to indicate which tab is positive and which tab is negative. Unfortunately, all of my Hyperions have tape over those marks and the adhesive from the tape has actually absorbed the ink... so when the battery is removed from it's packaging, most of the writing comes off with the tape. I'll just have to mark them with a permanent marker so that I don't actually have to think about it when soldering.

I've never soldered a MCPX tail, so I can't comment on that.
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Old Sep 30, 2011, 11:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rafa's CB100 View Post
So, what's the name of the iPhone app? That's sounds fun to play with. Great info, btw! This explains the drift being just a slight mislaignment of the rx.

Rafa
Sensor Monitor

It will let you look at and log all the Iphone's sensor's outputs.

I haven't figured out how the GPS data is obtained. I seriously doubt it is receiving GPS satellite timing signals. I'm guessing it is "triangulating" timing signals from known locations of Cell Towers. If so calling the output GPS data is misleading.
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Old Sep 30, 2011, 11:35 PM
<Marty>
United States, KY, Springfield
Joined Jul 2011
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Quote:
Originally Posted by benmlee View Post
Finally figure out how the 6 axis mode works. Too hard to explain with words. Picture will make it obvious.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jDvkjGRikvM

3 axis mode is 3 gyros like all the other flybarless. The 3 other axis are for self leveling. The 4th to 6th axis are accelerometers instead of gyros. To say that this is a 6 axis gyro is not correct. Is 3 gyros and 3 accelerometer.

Because 3 gyros are enough to completely resolve the rotation of the helicopter in any direction. 6 gyros would be redundant. Same thing with accelerometer. 3 accelerometers are enough to resolve the acceleration of the helicopter in any direction.

The accelerometer is actually not used to sense the acceleration of the helicopter as I thought. Instead, is used to sense the direction of gravity. Just like those digital leveler use accelerometers to sense gravity. It just keeps the helicopter level.

So if the helicopter has a drift to left, you can tilt the receiver board to the left to compensate for it. Just don't do it too much, or the axis of the gyro will not be pointed at the pitch,yaw, roll axis of the helicopter anymore.

In conclusion, my previous post about sliding the helicopter across the table is not how the helicopter is designed to operate. The accelerometers were never meant to compensate for position of the helicopter, but just to level the helicopter if that makes sense.
apparently you all are not reading the posts....i posted this several pages back how the swash holds level in 3 axis no matter ho long you hold the heli tilted......and in 6 axis the swash returns level to the heli after a half of second or so.....
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Old Sep 30, 2011, 11:38 PM
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Marty is correct. That's the main difference. The sensors have little to do with acceleration per se. It senses the tilt L,R,U&D.

Regards,

Chris
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Old Sep 30, 2011, 11:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ScottAllyn View Post
Here's a video that may help:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yOpMzht2k9M

There are + and - marks printed on the batteries to indicate which tab is positive and which tab is negative. Unfortunately, all of my Hyperions have tape over those marks and the adhesive from the tape has actually absorbed the ink... so when the battery is removed from it's packaging, most of the writing comes off with the tape. I'll just have to mark them with a permanent marker so that I don't actually have to think about it when soldering.

I've never soldered a MCPX tail, so I can't comment on that.
thanks man...Iam going to see if i can do this. But i cant solder if my life depended on it!
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Old Oct 01, 2011, 12:21 AM
1 year flyin' & lovin' it!
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United States, CA, Covina
Joined Aug 2011
470 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Razors edge 29 View Post
howd your servo break?
Unfortunately it wasn't in a crash. I had actually put in 6-axis mode and as I flipped it upside-down to unplug the batt, the swash compensated and went full reverse elev causing it to bind & strip the gears. That kinda pissed me off...especially with all I put it through while flying! I put it in 6-axis to see what all the fuss is about when hovering. It was a mess! 3-axis is so much better!

AB
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