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Old Aug 19, 2011, 09:53 PM
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hexTronic D4023-850 Bl Outrunner (new big-un)

Jackerbes and i finally got our new DT850's from h/king. according to the listed specs, it should be about equal to a rewound 750, in my case (r/wound 750) roughly 60 oz. thrust @ 29 amps, apc 12 x 6e, 2200 mah 3s @ 300 watts, if i remember. The 850 states 380 watts @ 35 amps, we'll see.
i will now move over and let jack and his e/tree have the floor.

oh jack, jack...
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Last edited by mchldpy; Aug 25, 2011 at 12:20 AM. Reason: corrected motor name to: D4023-850... duh
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Old Aug 20, 2011, 05:16 AM
Jack
USA, ME, Ellsworth
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Geez, I don't even have the connectors on one yet...

Speaking of connectors, when I was buying the DAT-750's from R2 Hobbies I always got a set of 3.5mm bullet connectors with them.

Hard times in China, they have to start leaving the accessories out I guess...

A quick inspection show a fairly neat winding job on these. I guess someone needs to get one rewound and see where they will go.

Dr Kiwi? You there?

Do you want to run one of these through the mill? Just say the word and I'll shoot one off to you for testing! Be nice to get some data points into the databases.

Jack
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Old Aug 20, 2011, 01:50 PM
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mchldpy

Waich is this motor?

This:
D4023-850
http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/s...ner_Motor.html

I have a little review for this motor, but with diferent KV. 956.

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1488419


Just today I realize comparing the photos of HK, these motors are not the same.
in the part where you put the screw to hold the shaft.



Manuel V.
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Old Aug 20, 2011, 04:16 PM
Jack
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I got some of these too, on a combined order thanks to Michael. I ran one up on a test run today. Very quiet and smooth. You can see the not full throttle and not even warmed up with a too small prop results below. The battery was dying on me as you can see, that was a 4S A123 pack and should have run like a strong 3S LiPO.

I also did a short no-load test, the results on that was a Kv of 894 so the advertised 850 is about right I think.

It is like it's DAT-750 little brother I think, going to be a great motor for bigger props and partial throttle operation. Not sure where it will go on 4S and big props, I don't really even have the battery or props to get it hot I think.

The DT750 is still available from HK for about $10.

R2 Hobbies also still has the genuine Turborix DAT-750 in stock now but wants $13.89 for it. But you get the connectors with it for that.

R2 told me they are closing out the Turborix DAT-750 and will then sell only the Eurgle DAT-750 version of the motor. But they want $17.36 for the Eurgle and it does not come with connectors.

The winding look like they are done better than they were on the 750's. I'll probably strip one and if they can count turns any better now.

Jack
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Old Aug 20, 2011, 05:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jackerbes View Post
Geez, I don't even have the connectors on one yet...

Speaking of connectors, when I was buying the DAT-750's from R2 Hobbies I always got a set of 3.5mm bullet connectors with them.

Hard times in China, they have to start leaving the accessories out I guess...

A quick inspection show a fairly neat winding job on these. I guess someone needs to get one rewound and see where they will go.

Dr Kiwi? You there?

Do you want to run one of these through the mill? Just say the word and I'll shoot one off to you for testing! Be nice to get some data points into the databases.

Jack

Hey Jack,

If it doesn't require much over 400W I can give it a good run... anything over about 25A data will have to come from running on big 3s or 4s packs (not incremental as I can do with my Zurich Power supply)... but I have those.

Cheers, Phil

P.S. I PM'd a mailing address.
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Old Aug 20, 2011, 07:14 PM
Jack
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Thanks, Doc!

We'll get one of these into your testing mill next week! Thanks for the generous donation of your time!

Jack
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Old Aug 22, 2011, 08:21 PM
Jack
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So I got a motor mailed off to Dr Kiwi today so we'll get some nice testing results before too long I think.

I played with one of mine a little bit tonight. I down here in the basement these bigger motor tend to blow everything around so I really need to get it set up outside to do some longer tests and full throttle tests. But I ran it up with a APC TE 14 x 10 a little bit tonight just to see how that would go and if that much prop would warm it up a little.

I used a 4S A123 pack so the voltages were like a strong or freshly charge 3S. Here are the number from a couple of short run ups:

APC 14 X 10 TE partial throttle tests

14 seconds averages (slightly less than 1/2 throttle)
4,906 RPM, 11.8V, 20.7A, 244W
temp 81.3F to 87.3F and climbing slowly,

10 seconds averages (slightly less than 1/3rd throttle)
4,376 RPM, 13.6A, 12.2V, 166W
temp 89.6F to 91.6F leveled off and not rising

6 seconds averages (slightly less then 1/2 throttle)
4,848 RPM, 19.4A, 232 Watts
temp rise 91.8F to 94.3F and still climbing, peaked at 105 after the runs

So it looks like that motor can swing that prop all day if you flying off of full throttle and just using full throttle bursts. It never got anywhere near hot to the touch and will run cooler in flight.

I need to try it with a 5S A123 pack too, that would be equivalent to a 4S LiPO. I definitely want to be outside to do that one. As much as my bench needs to be cleaned off, having it all blown against the far wall is not my choice for doing it.

Jack
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Old Aug 23, 2011, 11:00 AM
Jack
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D4023-850 Motor 4S Testing

I used a 5S A123 pack (voltages equivalent to a 4S LiPO) and a APC TE 14 x 10 prop to warm this motor up a little today. I didn't do any thrust measurements though.

The test stand seen there is from R2 Hobbies and I'm not sure I like it for motors and props this big. That motor mount slides on rails to allow your to measure thrust. But it also vibrates and makes me a little nervous when it does that so I have it tied down with a piece of bungee cord. I think it is a good stand for $10 or so...

I know many don't like the concept but I tested with a prop held on with 3 x Thera-Bands on a Maxx Product ACC366 4mm wobbly prop saver. And it worked perfect! No problems at all.

My notes:

23 August 5S A123/4S LiPO testing with APC TE 14 x 10

Session 1
110823_01_P80_A5S_APC1410_01.jpg

112 seconds (1:52)
RPM - peak 6,513, avg 3,655
Volts - max 17.6 min 11.4 avg 15.02
Amps - max 52.8A min 0 avg 15.54A
Watts - max 622 min 0 avg 200W

Temp rise - 68.7F to 133.1F during run. Saw 127F peak with temp still climbing slowly during full throttle run. Temp started falling when throttled back to 3,500 RPM (typical 5A/80W cruise). After shutdown, bell was almost too hot to hold on to and temp peaked at 136F or so.

110823_01_P80_A5S_APC1410_02.jpg

averages for 15 seconds at full throttle
RPM 5,859, 48.3A, 11.5V, 554W

Temp rise during run 95F to 118F and still rising slowly. Temp dropped to 111F during 10 second 3,500 RPM cool down run. After shutdown temp rose to 135F or so and bell was almost too hot to hold.

Session 2 - 66 seconds (1:06)

110823_01_P80_A5S_APC1410_03.jpg

Ran 30 seconds at 1500 RPM to get windings temp back down to about 100F. Then Did a 5 second full throttle burst, averages as follows:

110823_01_P80_A5S_APC1410_04.jpg

6,152 RPM, 13.2v, 56.5A 746W

Battery is getting tired, if it was a 4S LiPO it would have been close to 3.1V per cell at lowest voltage during that burst. Temp rose just a few degrees during the burst, like from 100F to 104F or so.

Did another 8 second full throttle burst (no images for that burst), the averages were as follows:

5,874 RPM, 12.8V, 48.1A, 618W

Battery is definitely tired, temp rose from 105F to 115F on that burst, pack voltage dropped to 12.7V and a 4S LiPO would be getting threatened a little here. The 5S A123 pack is down to 2.5V or so and fine at that low a voltage, but it would be time to set up for landing...

But the battery performance here is not a reflection on the motor, it is more that you guys need to take up a collection and buy me some of the world's best 4S LiPO packs for Christmas...

Actually, I don't need no stinking LiPO's for this motor! I am a A123 guy with this much power!

I would fly this motor with the stock wind at up to 600W with some throttle management. I might launch at or near full throttle but I don't use it all the time ever. This motor pulls a skimpy 5A and gives me 80W at 3,500 RPM and that will drag a lot of planes around pretty well once they are flying. And when you need a cheap thrill or happen to see a magnetic tree getting too close, you can always kick it up a little!

I shot a video too! But don't have it processed...

Jack
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Old Aug 23, 2011, 11:31 AM
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United States, MO, Marshall
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Hi Jack,
Good info. Did they increase the bearing size on this puppy? I'm guessing not since they still used the 4mm shaft.

Dan
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Old Aug 23, 2011, 03:14 PM
Jack
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Slow_Buzz View Post
Hi Jack,
Good info. Did they increase the bearing size on this puppy? I'm guessing not since they still used the 4mm shaft.

Dan
The back bearing was increased in diameter from 7mm to 8mm, not sure if the width was increased from 2.5mm or not because I have not had the bearings out yet (or even the shaft).

I'd be surprised that the size of the front bearing was not increased also. And there is room, with the length of the bearing tube, for a pair of bearings on either end. Just have to get one apart and see what is there.

The O.D. of the bearing tube was increased from 8mm to 9mm on this motor, that is why there was room for the 8mm O.D. bearing I can see at the back.

This looks to me like it is an easy 4 Watts per gram 108 gram motor in stock form. And up to 6 Watts per gram on 4S if you are flying it with on and off throttle use as would be done in 3D, aerobatic, and a lot sports flying.

Where is will go with rewinds remains to be seen. I notice it is already back ordered at HK, they have sold out their initial stock already.

Jack
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Old Aug 23, 2011, 06:46 PM
Jack
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I don't consider videos to be the hot ticket for motor testing info but thought I'd shoot one on this test. If nothing else it demonstrates that the Thera-Band prop saver bands work fine at up over 600 Watts!

D4023-850 Brushless Motor 4S Test (1 min 45 sec)


Jack
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Old Aug 25, 2011, 08:12 PM
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Well, Jack... the motors arrived safely today. Some ingenuity will be required to mount these guys to my stand, but I think I've got the system worked out... an Aeronaut "beam mount for 600" is versatile and I can bolt these bearing tube adapters to it. I can't use any of my GWS HD props since they are all bored out to 5mm/6mm or 8mm, but I can use APC E props by fitting 4mm adapter rings... I'm wary of using APC SF (even though they are recommended) because most of the time I'll be exceeding their safe RPM ratings on 3s.

So far all I've managed is to do is mount the DAT750 and run some no-loads on it (RPM/V = raw Kv of 804.5... so actual Kv may be 815-820... not the rated 750Kv)..... next up is a 10x5 APC E just to get a feel for it.

Cheers, Phil
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Old Aug 25, 2011, 08:58 PM
Jack
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You certainly have my sympathy on having to deal with that mish mash of prop adapter O.D.'s and shafts and prop adapters of various inch and metric sizes. I've got pretty good collection of the various little shaft size adapters that come with different brands of props and that lets me get by.

I've drilled some prop hubs out on brands other than APC to take the 5/16" and 3/8" APC adapters in the hubs.

Jack

I think one of the things that has gotten me so enamored with the tapered cone prop savers is the quick and easy sizing of props to fit the tapered cones.

And then there are those Turborix mounts that come on the 750 and 850 motors. The mounts work well enough but there is nothing out there matches up with the three hole patter on them.

Did I remember to put 2mm hex drive button head screws in those for keeping the motors in the mounts? The 1.5 mm screws are just OK if yo don't use ball end hex wrenches on them but both of those motor are a little notorious for loosening up in the mounts...

I notice you're testing in a pusher mode, that's a good idea. I need to make myself a better test rig and if I could set it facing a empty wall that would certainly make the prop wash easier to deal with.
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Old Aug 26, 2011, 10:24 AM
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Don't have your test rig anywhere near a wall (front/side/behind)... that will skew your data. That photo I posted (next to a wall) is a mock-up on my work bench. In real life I have the test stand on a table with no wall within 4' either side, and 6'+ front and back.

I can find some sturdier screws for the mounts if need be.
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Old Aug 26, 2011, 05:10 PM
Jack
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You thing 6' would skew the data? I didn't even consider that...

If I can learn enough ways to skew data maybe I could get a job producing motor specs for people like HK, Rimfire, and all the other motor sellers of dubious or indiscernible and inscrutable honesty...

The home vacuum industry has specialized in advertising "locked rotor" amperage for vacuum motors, that would be a real break through in power level for brushless motors...

Jack
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