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Old Nov 17, 2011, 04:08 AM
Team Mulikow 3D
Oxfordshire, UK
Joined Jan 2007
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Quote:
Originally Posted by beenflying View Post
Good to hear, Mike. I thought the gyro had to complete initialization before it would allow the programmer to download the data. Interesting that you got it to work without it initializing, after the first time, or had you not restarted the gyro at this point?
What I did is that to read the settings from the 3GYS I just connected a battery to it and powered it up with the programming box connected (no RX/TX), so I just tried this with the new 3X1000 and no go - it just stuck at Loading Data. I then connected it to the RX, powered up the TX and RX and it then initialised fine and let me change the parameters. Once I had got it working with the Rx/Tx attached (I think) that it works OK now without the Rx/Tx - I'll check later. As you say it is as if it wants to see the Rx to initialise the first time and once it has done this it is happy to work standalone without the Rx/Tx

The only difference I have found so far (in set up - servos not moved over yet) is that one of the the Swash Gain settings is 100 in the ALZRC and 70 in the 3X1000 as default - I think that you mentioned this
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Old Nov 17, 2011, 08:13 AM
Kou
Registered User
Andover,MA.,USA
Joined Aug 2001
735 Posts
I will be very interested in finding out others' experience between the ALZRC and CopterX gyro. I have the CopterX on the EXI450 and just received the ALZRC. From what I see here, they seem to be the same thing. Am I correct ? The CopterX unit lock the tail pretty good but has a small wagging motion. Also, when doing very slow piro, the gyro seem to have a hard time and it just go like 20 deg at a time so it is not really smooth. Since I do not have the CopterX programming box, I am not able to fine tune it. Now that I know I can use the ALZRC box, I am going to follow MikeHRC's instruction and try it out today. Also, the ALZRC instruction has 2 selection for the 1520us tail servo with different freq but CopterX does not. Wonder if that is the problem. I am using the MKS DS480 servo for the tail.

MK
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Old Nov 17, 2011, 09:21 AM
Kou
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Andover,MA.,USA
Joined Aug 2001
735 Posts
Just hook up the CopterX to the ALZRC programming box, it did not work with RX/TX plugged in. I then try the programming box on the ALZRC gyro with just the battery and it is also no go. Then I hook up the ALZRC gyro to the RX (only the rudder and gain ch) and wait for it to initialize. Then the programming box worked. I just got the ALZRC yesterday, apparently, they have changed the firmware. This is bad because I do not want to take 2 programming boxes to the field for 2 different gyro.

On the tail, as I mentioned that during a slow piro, the motion seem to be progressing in steps. What I did on both the CopterX and the ALZRC gyro is to observe the gyro with very little stick input. the servo will 'step' to a minimum of like 10 deg motion on both gyros which explain why the tail goes in step during slow piro. I have a BeastX so I try that on the BeastX and the servo is just smooth as silk in response to the very little stick input. If anyone know which parameter to tweak to eliminate the 'step' change in slow piro, please let me know. Other than that, the cyclic is quite good.

MK
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Last edited by Kou; Nov 17, 2011 at 10:18 AM.
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Old Nov 17, 2011, 10:28 AM
Team Mulikow 3D
Oxfordshire, UK
Joined Jan 2007
4,065 Posts
Kou,

Sorry if I confused you - I used the Copterx Prog box on the Copterx Gyro and the ALZRC box on the ALZRC gyro, what I had tried to do (unsuccessfully) was to programme the Copterx gyro before it had been fully initialised onto the Rx.

Best wishes,
Mike.
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Old Nov 17, 2011, 12:52 PM
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United States, WA, Issaquah
Joined May 2011
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kou View Post
...snip...
On the tail, as I mentioned that during a slow piro, the motion seem to be progressing in steps. What I did on both the CopterX and the ALZRC gyro is to observe the gyro with very little stick input. the servo will 'step' to a minimum of like 10 deg motion on both gyros which explain why the tail goes in step during slow piro. I have a BeastX so I try that on the BeastX and the servo is just smooth as silk in response to the very little stick input. If anyone know which parameter to tweak to eliminate the 'step' change in slow piro, please let me know. Other than that, the cyclic is quite good.

MK
I too noticed my CX3X1000 was a little too quick on the tail, so I toned it down by decreasing the Yaw deadband (stock is at 60, I took it to 10), decreasing piro rate (30), and adding a lot of expo on the Tx (I got 60% tail expo). Now I can do slow and smooth piro's.
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Old Nov 17, 2011, 01:53 PM
Kou
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Andover,MA.,USA
Joined Aug 2001
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MikeHRC: No problem.
Dr. M: Thanks for sharing. I am going to try it out. Unfortunately, I do not have a CopterX programming box so I will have to wait until it is in stock. Cannot change the dead band without the programming box.

MK
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Old Nov 17, 2011, 09:24 PM
Team Daedalus
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Joined Jun 2008
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mackshot View Post
The tied string on the CY-models was a nice old time touch as well. Time will tell but CY seem pretty good now so good to see, hopefully beenflyings experience was just a once off bad hair day for them although that is no excuse for them not answering emails.
This box had no tape. Just the string. I could have reached in and taken the part out. Their prices are pretty good. As I checked out I noticed, No shipping option. Emailed them, got a reply "included in price".

I don't know their history or if they are trying to regain consumer confidence.
Works for me.

Todd
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Old Nov 18, 2011, 08:38 AM
Kou
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Andover,MA.,USA
Joined Aug 2001
735 Posts
Change the ALZRC gyro dead band on the tail and tail servo is moving smoothly. Instead of changing the piro rate, I notice that the servo turn all the way up to half rudder stick and and any more stick input is not doing anything. So I change the ETA to 50 on the JR8103. I'll remove the CopterX gyro from the EXI450 and put the ALZRC on just because I do not have a CopterX programming box. The two gyro set up look virtually identical.

MK
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Old Nov 18, 2011, 02:50 PM
as much as I can
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NZ
Joined Jan 2010
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Don't be fooled by the rudder stick doing nothing after half way. In flight this will not be the case. It's only happening on the ground because the tail can't move, so the gyro keeps putting in more and more rudder to try to get it to move.

While reducing EPAs is another good method to increase the deadband effect on the stick, dropping it to 50 will probably give you a very slow piro rate. Think of it this way, whatever you set the EPA to is the percentage of the full piro rate, so 50 will give you 50% of whatever an EPA of 100 would have given you, 60 60%, 70 70%...
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Old Nov 19, 2011, 11:33 AM
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Kauai
Joined Jan 2011
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Hey Beenflying,
I read in one of these threads that you were trying the Ds115mg servos,I was wondering how they where working out for you?I just ordered a set to put in my Black Angel so was hoping I didn't make a mistake!Thanks for any info!

Steve
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Old Nov 19, 2011, 09:09 PM
as much as I can
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NZ
Joined Jan 2010
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The bench test so far of the DST DS115MG is very good. When I get time I want to try it on a 450 tail. This showed the flaw in the MKS DS92 (slow to get moving, not good for gyro applications).

Here's a video with the DS115MG on both cyclic (FBL) and tail:
TAROT ZYX 3-Axis Gyro Testing by Albert (3 min 47 sec)
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Old Nov 19, 2011, 09:44 PM
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Kauai
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Wow , that answers my question, I was going to use them for cyclics and a emax 9257 on the tail.Thanks for the video!
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Old Nov 19, 2011, 11:43 PM
as much as I can
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NZ
Joined Jan 2010
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You're welcome. The emax should be good on the tail as long as the voltage is 5 volts.

Can I ask where you got your DS115MG's from?
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Old Nov 20, 2011, 06:03 AM
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Kauai
Joined Jan 2011
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My bec puts out 5v so I won't fry the emax,I bought from Himodel , any experience with that company?Hoping there not to slow on shipping!
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Old Nov 20, 2011, 09:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kou View Post
Just hook up the CopterX to the ALZRC programming box, it did not work with RX/TX plugged in. I then try the programming box on the ALZRC gyro with just the battery and it is also no go. Then I hook up the ALZRC gyro to the RX (only the rudder and gain ch) and wait for it to initialize. Then the programming box worked. I just got the ALZRC yesterday, apparently, they have changed the firmware. This is bad because I do not want to take 2 programming boxes to the field for 2 different gyro.

On the tail, as I mentioned that during a slow piro, the motion seem to be progressing in steps. What I did on both the CopterX and the ALZRC gyro is to observe the gyro with very little stick input. the servo will 'step' to a minimum of like 10 deg motion on both gyros which explain why the tail goes in step during slow piro. I have a BeastX so I try that on the BeastX and the servo is just smooth as silk in response to the very little stick input. If anyone know which parameter to tweak to eliminate the 'step' change in slow piro, please let me know. Other than that, the cyclic is quite good.



MK
I have the helicox unit and noticed same "step" stuff on tail. In my case, I just decrease the stock yaw deadband to 20, and changed the tail servo deadband to 1, right number for my servo. The result was a smooth tail movement and, if I can say that, an "increased resolution" on tail. First tail movement is not that fast like stock settings anymore. ALso changed RX / Servo deadband settings to the cyclics.

Also added a little bit of expo to don't catch the micro inputs when throttle up.

Cheerz.
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