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Old Dec 07, 2011, 03:59 AM
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Hi,

mhills51 ask:

wouldn't that middle gear need a thrust bearing? I mean you have not one but two gears forcing down upon it.


I don't know, I think it will do the job but time will tell how it hold itself.

But its a spot to check on e regular base as the hole Heli mechanics

Theres a lot of mechanical stuff going around what can cause problems, and then we have the electronic parts also to take care fore.

Its just an other item to take care fore. and I said before Time will tell how it holds. A trust bearing will help for sure but its again adding weight and it become wider and you don't want this to become wider in your tail section.

Maybe Kin can answer your question/remark.

Regards,

Jan,
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Old Dec 07, 2011, 05:57 AM
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Originally Posted by mhills51 View Post
Ok!! I will be the butthead here. wouldn't that middle gear need a thrust bearing? I mean you have not one but two gears forcing down upon it.
Hard to say. A normal bearing can handle some axial load (not really much but more than you'd expect), and flanged bearings normally have slight angled ballraces, so can handle slightly more. (The flange is there for a reason, not only for cosmetic reasons)

Time will tell but my guess is that the ball bearings can handdle the axial load, as I have seen main blade grips on a .45 size heli, without thrust bearings that kept up.....

Brgds, Bert
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Old Dec 07, 2011, 09:42 AM
kin
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Yes! it is a very good question for the two bevel gear in two side force , have you make a thrust bearing in your main shaft lower bearing board ? i think 99 % guy are no thrust bearing under the lower main bearing , in fact the total weight from 4 -10 kg weight also have no extra bearing to load your heli weight , but the total weight also absorb in the lower bearing , so go back to my gear box , it is same a car differential gear box . if the side force are not so (suddenly) . the bearing are ok . but as you said the bearing axiel foce can be solve in a good quality bearing . If you see the japan bearing are the outter cone inside have a concave notch . it is effect the bearing quality .the notch deep is good ! the lower quality are shallow ! so your question is solve in the bearing quality ! let see the time will let the answer ! i still looking at the result .
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Old Dec 07, 2011, 04:16 PM
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Thanks! just thought I would check. I know it is a new tail system better to ask than not.
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Old Dec 10, 2011, 05:01 PM
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Hello,

Today I put the shafts together and that was a smooth operation



I glued the inserts into the shafts and then drilled the 2mm hole and put the locking stifts in.




I mounted the linkage



I ordered a left hand pitch arm in Germany works great,



Temporary mounted the tail servo on the boom.



And put her on her skid but with the 5 degree angle as in the Apache.

Then I run the mechanics to test the hole setup but without the main blades because I don't want to fly here yet. just for testing.

The first impression was that the new gears became a bit hot, not really hot but more then just warm.
Head speed are about 1100rpm so that was not fast but after pushing the four blade tail unit to his limits, the gear attached at the main mechanic sheared complete off




And that sight don't makes me happy
I must admit that the force the tail unit generated was (as I believe) more than you need to fly this Apache scale like. maybe I was overdoing this a bit to far. at least I hope so.

But I'm a bit worried now, so I will test it very good before I put this setup in my fuselage as I intended anyway.

However now I don't have a spare gear but the original gear from the T-Rex 600 looks very the same as Smartmodels used.

So I demolished a main-gear to tail gear and used the little gear.



Here you see the left over, but the little gear (after making it a bit smaller) fits perfect in the gear housing you need to make the gear smaller because otherwise its to wide fitting inside the gear housing.

So I was able to repair the gear and now I can go on.



I hope that I can run her this weekend again and maybe even fly her.

Will be continued,

Jan,
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Old Dec 11, 2011, 12:51 PM
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Hello all,

Well I was able to get all the electronics in the test rig I needed two aluminum beams to locate the battery's a lot to the front to get the CG right.

But its a impressive setup now even without the fuselage.




I have run the heli and the gears will be get warm but its seems ok.
I adjust the trow of my giro so its not doing the full travel of the tail pitch to prevent stripping the middle gear again and now its holding.

I also ad a 500 size tail skid to avoid that the tail gear strikes the ground and the tail linkage hits the ground first then not so good..



Wile running the setup the tail boom starts to rotate so I stopped and noticed that I was forgotten to put in the fixing screw (m3) in the 5degree tail section what enters in the main frame of the mechanics
And the diameter of the round insert are a bit to small in diameter.
So I added some tape to make the insert a bit thicker and mark the fixing screw location pre-drilled it and set the screw.



After that was OK it was time to get here up in the air.

I only was able to take her up in a hover because it was almost night at that moment.
It hovers OK but the tail was very nervous and was moving constant from side to side and the speed of that movement was increasing, so I need some time with the Giro and linkage to get that right.



I was not able to fly around but after I have solved the tail wobbling issue there will be no excuse for doing that then



Kind regards,

Jan,
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Old Dec 11, 2011, 11:57 PM
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Did you figurre out why the TT gears shredded? Are you confident you solved that issue?
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Old Dec 12, 2011, 01:23 AM
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Did you figurre out why the TT gears shredded? Are you confident you solved that issue?
Yes I do, I'm sure that I put to much pitch/power on the tail blades aprox 20degree angle at the blades.thats way more than needed I guess.
So now I reduced the pitch so I hope it will hold now.
I hope that I can fly this week after solving the tail wobbling.
Then we know more.

Regards,

Jan.
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Old Dec 13, 2011, 01:08 PM
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Hi all,

I was able to hover again today with day light and with wind of strength from 5 to 6 so not that nice to try something out

However I have noticed that the tail-boom Hobby king delivers with your text on it are a bit smaller than the align tube and a bit thinner.
The gear Smartmodel delivers are really made for the align dimensions other wise you will not be able to fix the tubes strong enough.
So I mounted Align tubes and its OK now
Back into the air and setting the Giro to 29 % HH the Heli comes to rest and hovers well and with this wind and its a massive sight this machine.
I love it...
I was not able to fly now but I have a good feeling about it now.
But I need now good weather without rain or stormy wind.

Greetings,

Jan,
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Old Dec 18, 2011, 11:28 PM
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For the bevel gear wear out, check out what I did on my pavehawk:
http://www.daddyhobby.com/forum/show...avehawk&page=2
{ See post #25 }

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Old Dec 19, 2011, 07:12 AM
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Originally Posted by Super_Hornet View Post
For the bevel gear wear out, check out what I did on my pavehawk:
http://www.daddyhobby.com/forum/show...avehawk&page=2
{ See post #25 }

Hi Super_Hornet,

You got a point here and I will put some grease at the gears and it will reduce the tear and wear for sure.

About the broken bevel gear..

I have not fly the Heli free around but I have tested (hover and turning) it now several times.

And I must admit that the reason the bevel gear broke was that I put to much load on it.

I put the max pitch from the four-blade tail rotor on the gears and that is to much, this gear is for scale and not for hard 3D.

Now I have reduced dramatically the pitch of the tail rotor and I can not see that the gear is not holding the load.

So, as far I can judge now, I was the cause that the gear broke and not a design vault.

So if you have this gear, its for gentle use in a scale application and set your tail pitch if you use a four-blade tail rotor at a reduced angle and not to its mechanical limits as I did.

Also reduces your head speed, I turn spinblades with 1060 rpm now without the body and thats looks OK now.

Hoping this will gives you guys a better feeling about this gear as I have now, because I understand now what I did wrong and that the gear works as expected.

Kind regards,

Jan,
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Old Dec 28, 2011, 04:24 AM
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Hello All,

I was able to fly the heli yesterday a bit, not so much wind but very gray sky and some rain.

I have now also put in the Copter-X head with TF/Smartmodels scale blades.

After setting up the Head and making the right adjustments in my Helicommand RIGID it was time to try it in a bit more space.

You may know I was really nervous to spool this up because I do not have any experience with FBL at all, just only theory.

And you see that with the first spooling up.

See the video,

Its not a really good video and there will be better one soon.
But its giving you guys a impression how its looks in the air.

And no problems at all with the mechanics

Test flight Apache mechanic with T-REX 600 ESP (3 min 31 sec)

You may not giggling the sticks wile the head is spooling up because the electronics will kick in a bit later, at least thats what I understand.

Because the Heli main shaft are tilted 5 degree to the front the Heli wants to move forwards so I already was compensating that wile the Heli was spooling up.
Knowing that the second attempt was going a lot better.

And you will noticed a lot of mechanical sound what is normal with all the gears running.

Have fun,

Regards,

Jan,
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Old Dec 28, 2011, 01:04 PM
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Originally Posted by Horseman View Post
Hello,

Today I put the shafts together and that was a smooth operation



I glued the inserts into the shafts and then drilled the 2mm hole and put the locking stifts in.




I mounted the linkage



I ordered a left hand pitch arm in Germany works great,



Temporary mounted the tail servo on the boom.



And put her on her skid but with the 5 degree angle as in the Apache.

Then I run the mechanics to test the hole setup but without the main blades because I don't want to fly here yet. just for testing.

The first impression was that the new gears became a bit hot, not really hot but more then just warm.
Head speed are about 1100rpm so that was not fast but after pushing the four blade tail unit to his limits, the gear attached at the main mechanic sheared complete off




And that sight don't makes me happy
I must admit that the force the tail unit generated was (as I believe) more than you need to fly this Apache scale like. maybe I was overdoing this a bit to far. at least I hope so.

But I'm a bit worried now, so I will test it very good before I put this setup in my fuselage as I intended anyway.

However now I don't have a spare gear but the original gear from the T-Rex 600 looks very the same as Smartmodels used.

So I demolished a main-gear to tail gear and used the little gear.



Here you see the left over, but the little gear (after making it a bit smaller) fits perfect in the gear housing you need to make the gear smaller because otherwise its to wide fitting inside the gear housing.

So I was able to repair the gear and now I can go on.



I hope that I can run her this weekend again and maybe even fly her.

Will be continued,

Jan,
Do you have a link for the left handed bell crank for the tail? just checking as I have been looking and haven't found any yet...
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Old Dec 28, 2011, 01:21 PM
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Left hand tail arm

Hi josereyes,

I have ordered this tail arm here

Its a great shop and they respond in English also with no problem at all.

And they uses normal shipping rates, just ask them by mail.

Kind regards,

Jan,
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Old Dec 28, 2011, 01:30 PM
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Originally Posted by Horseman View Post
Hi josereyes,

I have ordered this tail arm here

Its a great shop and they respond in English also with no problem at all.

And they uses normal shipping rates, just ask them by mail.

Kind regards,

Jan,
Thanks for your quick response, greatly appreciated....
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