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Old Aug 04, 2011, 03:52 PM
Many projects..Little time!
bruceswd's Avatar
Edgemead, Cape Town
Joined Aug 2006
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RCRCM Vector III Vector IV Aresti and James Hammond

I've started this thread to allow us all to talk about RCRCM/James Hammond designs and anything around these to try and get the RCRCM bashing out of the build logs.

I am part of the sloping community in Cape Town and I have in the past been involved in bringing V3s into South Africa.

Right from the beginning we have all commented on that they are just not hard enough for our conditions.
A friend of mine who has built and flies his own designed slopers has a V3 with multiple repairs.
Break in the fus just behind the wings.
Tail boom break just before the tail.
To start with he actually poured resin down the inside of the leading edge and the inserted a carbon rod into this resin to harden up the leading edge.

Now the question is:
Since JH is no longer involved at RCRCM has the quality of the V3 suffered? But now that we all know there is a V4 (Aresti or Dorado) on its way do we really want the V3 for aerobatics ?

I have also commented in a previous thread about the Dorado, why not make the V4 (Aresti) plan open source....
I know there would be a whole bunch of Capetonians hectically busy bulding going forward if that happened. Probably me too.
I know JH has got it in for RCRCM. Why not release all those designs of his to the Sloping Community.
Would he not become the Linux of the sloping world?

Ok I admit it I'm just a cheapskate wanting good desgns for free..
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Old Aug 04, 2011, 05:09 PM
Biting ankles since '53
No Pants Island
Joined Feb 2007
2,944 Posts
Quote:
I've started a new thread to comment on or have a go at RCRCM or their products or business ethic.
Sounds a good idea. I'll start from the point of view that RCRCM are scum..

But James' designs seem rather good.

Now however I wander off into the land of the unknown.
Just 'how good' ?
We have a few designs out there viewed as classics and rightly so but now there is a lot more info available to Mr Normal and a lot more info on building techniques.
Why expect James to give away the Aresti design? Why not hotwire a couple of wings, botch a fuse or two to get the moments tuned and then shape a fus for your own mould?
We are not talking F3X measured performance on any of these planes, just what guys find fun to fly.
Is it really THAT hard to get 90% of the way there and how likely is it you'll notice that missing few percent if it is YOUR design? Imagine you guys in SA flying a local design acro plane like your F3B guys have done.
The hard work has been done with the foils, Dr Drela and countless others have supplied calculators for design - why ask James to do it all for you? The whole point (snigger! point - geddit?) of the JART open source thang was to stop companies ripping off Reed's design but also to allow anyone to make something JARTY without the need for too much reverence...
Look at the Dorado pics, look at James' previous posts, look at his foils he's always been willing to post the co-ords off.
If you can't make something similar to the Aresti (maybe not close enough to persuade a manufacturer to risk making a set of moulds) then maybe you shouldn't be let near a set of tools.

Guys: much of the magic smoke has been let out of the bag. We can see so much of what has been done before. Why not try your own thing rather than ask others to give their stuff away?
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Old Aug 04, 2011, 06:02 PM
Deniable plausibility
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Derbyshire, UK
Joined Aug 2008
2,327 Posts
Just wanted to second what M. E is saying in the above post re designing your own. It aint hard and the rewards are exponentially higher if you designed it, made it AND flew it. If you want a bit of inspiration, have a look at www.aerodesign.de - there's plenty of dimensioned drawings on there.
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Old Aug 05, 2011, 08:30 AM
Keep calm and don't blink
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Hamilton, New Zealand
Joined Jun 2005
2,095 Posts
+1 on that SoD. Just a word of warning for anyone with recent RCRCM purchases. Have a good look through your fuse, they have been cheaping out on the strengthening and wacking the QC stickers right on top of it



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Old Aug 05, 2011, 10:05 AM
Feeling FrSky
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United States, CA, Santa Barbara
Joined Feb 2003
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Is that an IP address? LOL

Steve
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Old Aug 05, 2011, 08:19 PM
Slopers Anonymous
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USA, WA, Graham
Joined Feb 2002
249 Posts
I have a flying buddy who has three landings and three fuse breaks on a Typhoon. I also purchased an unflown Vector III from a friend of mine to just turn around and sell it based on the quality I saw and the build (repair) thread so I've seen first hand the quality of RCRCM products. I've read so many bad reviews that I can't fathom why anyone would buy an airplane from them except on price. For a few bucks more you can get so much more quality it isn't funny. I just started flying slope this year and spent last winter purchasing some used planes. Maybe I just lucked out but the first thing I bought was a E Carbon Spider 2.5, you wouldn't believe what that plane has been through and guess what, it's still flying! In fact it's still usually the first plane to come out and the last to get put away. I've had a couple of missed launches that put it nose down straight into the rocks, knocked the motor mount loose, broke the spinner and props but after a little epoxie it's coming back for more. If it would have been a Typhoon, it would be kindling. That being said I guess it's pretty clear that I won't be supporting their product no matter who designed it.
Another thing that really gets my goat is someone who will crap on another persons thread. I guess after all this is still america and a guy should be able to buy and build what he wants without being harassed by someone who feels that they've been wronged. After all is it the poor guys fault that somebody made a bad business decision by partnering up with dirt bags who have no moral concience. Maybe he never read the thread where James gets on a soap box and airs his woes. I would think that would be enough, to let everyone who will read the thread know what has transpired but NO it seems he has to jump on someone elses thread and basically indirectly attack whoever had the misfortune to puchase one of his designs from them. I guess after it's all said and done I won't be buying anything from either of them.
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Old Aug 05, 2011, 08:20 PM
Hambone the Impaler
Hambonetw's Avatar
Taiwan
Joined Nov 2008
924 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by bruceswd View Post
I've started this thread to allow us all to talk about RCRCM/James Hammond designs and anything around these to try and get the RCRCM bashing out of the build logs.

I am part of the sloping community in Cape Town and I have in the past been involved in bringing V3s into South Africa.

Right from the beginning we have all commented on that they are just not hard enough for our conditions.
A friend of mine who has built and flies his own designed slopers has a V3 with multiple repairs.
Break in the fus just behind the wings.
Tail boom break just before the tail.
To start with he actually poured resin down the inside of the leading edge and the inserted a carbon rod into this resin to harden up the leading edge.

Now the question is:
Since JH is no longer involved at RCRCM has the quality of the V3 suffered? But now that we all know there is a V4 (Aresti or Dorado) on its way do we really want the V3 for aerobatics ?

I have also commented in a previous thread about the Dorado, why not make the V4 (Aresti) plan open source....
I know there would be a whole bunch of Capetonians hectically busy bulding going forward if that happened. Probably me too.
I know JH has got it in for RCRCM. Why not release all those designs of his to the Sloping Community.
Would he not become the Linux of the sloping world?

Ok I admit it I'm just a cheapskate wanting good desgns for free..
Bruce, If you could make the Aresti moulds etc I'd not only release all the CAD design info to you, I'd buy them from you too and so would a hundred others probably.

First question: Can you do that?

Second question: Could you produce the planes to the quality that YOU expect?

If so, I'd also release all the design info for the other 3 planes I have in hand too if that would help.

My aerofoils are all open source already and available to any one who asks for them.

Why not make SA the new China?

Next point, I do not have it in for RCRCM, quite the opposite.

They have it in for me. They continue to violate thier agreement with me and produce designs they promised not to.

I know why this is - basically thier idea that they had reached the pinnacle of Model Sailpane design and production (so needless to say they did'nt need me any longer) is failing miserably now that I am not there, as is quality now that I am not biting thier asses every day.

This idea of condescendingy ALLOWING world chmpions (Not asking) to produce thier designs with them is not working so where are the new designs?

When I found Zoom models they had a copy (A bad one incidentally) of a Valenta plane and nothing else and the company was going down the tubes into bankruptcy the next week. I was me who saved them, gave them my designs, gave them my know how, and then when they thought they were bigger than everyone I was kicked out.

And you know what? I never received one single penny for anything I designed from RCRCM - but you can sure as hell bet they did - from you guys for a start.

No good designer in his right mind would want to be associated with RCRCM because at best he would be ripped off in a hearbeat, and worse, like myself have his designs aligned to a statement of bad quality in the same sentence. Good designs..BUT...You know the rest.

If anyone really wants to know what is wrong with the Dorado then email me...I am extremely happy to tell you.

As to taking my coments with a pinch of salt as has been mentioned in the other post - go ahead...

Cheers,

James.
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Old Aug 05, 2011, 09:04 PM
Hambone the Impaler
Hambonetw's Avatar
Taiwan
Joined Nov 2008
924 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by mr_editor View Post
Sounds a good idea. I'll start from the point of view that RCRCM are scum..

But James' designs seem rather good.

Now however I wander off into the land of the unknown.
Just 'how good' ?
We have a few designs out there viewed as classics and rightly so but now there is a lot more info available to Mr Normal and a lot more info on building techniques.
Why expect James to give away the Aresti design? Why not hotwire a couple of wings, botch a fuse or two to get the moments tuned and then shape a fus for your own mould?
We are not talking F3X measured performance on any of these planes, just what guys find fun to fly.
Is it really THAT hard to get 90% of the way there and how likely is it you'll notice that missing few percent if it is YOUR design? Imagine you guys in SA flying a local design acro plane like your F3B guys have done.
The hard work has been done with the foils, Dr Drela and countless others have supplied calculators for design - why ask James to do it all for you? The whole point (snigger! point - geddit?) of the JART open source thang was to stop companies ripping off Reed's design but also to allow anyone to make something JARTY without the need for too much reverence...
Look at the Dorado pics, look at James' previous posts, look at his foils he's always been willing to post the co-ords off.
If you can't make something similar to the Aresti (maybe not close enough to persuade a manufacturer to risk making a set of moulds) then maybe you shouldn't be let near a set of tools.

Guys: much of the magic smoke has been let out of the bag. We can see so much of what has been done before. Why not try your own thing rather than ask others to give their stuff away?
Scum huh? Well thats further than I have been so far but I have to say that Mr. Ed echoes my feelings exactly.

What gets me angry beyond belief, however is not just RCRCM - they can be easily categoirized as Mr Ed has done here so graphically.

No, its the others who say

"Come on James stop crying..."

"Come on James let them rip you off and move on..."

"Come on James, you should not associate your problems with our planes that we want to buy and fly..."

"Come on James even if they are ripped off, and we know they are ripped off, keep quiet so we can still buy them without guilt..."

etc etc etc

Here is a clip from an email I sent to a ditributor:

"Perhaps you can understand why I am mad:

For example:

If you came out of your house one day and found your car had been stolen, you would be upset - especially if the perpetrators were just across the border where they could not be touched, and were laughing at you while selling it.

Then it happened to you again, same thing, same people - I think you would be more than upset.

Then it happened a third time same as before? To say that you would be "Upset" would not cover it.


XXX I had written agreements with RCRCM for everything I claim, but as they say:

"This is China! Just try to sue us! Hahahaha!" - I have that in writing too.

I think that statement alone would make any self respecting person just a little pissed off.


Frankly I am happy in one way that the plane they did make was just an early study."


Guys, I am passionate abiout my work, and I aplologize if sometimes that passion spills over into things it has no business.

I am sorry for that but know this:

If you buy Chinese ripoffs, its likely not going to be you who pays - it will be your children.

Its really that serious.

James
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Old Aug 05, 2011, 09:13 PM
Hambone the Impaler
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Taiwan
Joined Nov 2008
924 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by bobbyjack View Post
I have a flying buddy who has three landings and three fuse breaks on a Typhoon. I also purchased an unflown Vector III from a friend of mine to just turn around and sell it based on the quality I saw and the build (repair) thread so I've seen first hand the quality of RCRCM products. I've read so many bad reviews that I can't fathom why anyone would buy an airplane from them except on price. For a few bucks more you can get so much more quality it isn't funny. I just started flying slope this year and spent last winter purchasing some used planes. Maybe I just lucked out but the first thing I bought was a E Carbon Spider 2.5, you wouldn't believe what that plane has been through and guess what, it's still flying! In fact it's still usually the first plane to come out and the last to get put away. I've had a couple of missed launches that put it nose down straight into the rocks, knocked the motor mount loose, broke the spinner and props but after a little epoxie it's coming back for more. If it would have been a Typhoon, it would be kindling. That being said I guess it's pretty clear that I won't be supporting their product no matter who designed it.
Another thing that really gets my goat is someone who will crap on another persons thread. I guess after all this is still america and a guy should be able to buy and build what he wants without being harassed by someone who feels that they've been wronged. After all is it the poor guys fault that somebody made a bad business decision by partnering up with dirt bags who have no moral concience. Maybe he never read the thread where James gets on a soap box and airs his woes. I would think that would be enough, to let everyone who will read the thread know what has transpired but NO it seems he has to jump on someone elses thread and basically indirectly attack whoever had the misfortune to puchase one of his designs from them. I guess after it's all said and done I won't be buying anything from either of them.
Good idea Bob - that at least is a decision

James.
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Old Aug 05, 2011, 10:55 PM
Just Toss It !!!
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United States, CA, San Diego
Joined May 2004
6,086 Posts
At the risk of condemning this thread to the political pages I'm compelled to open my fat mouth.
I wish not to take sides but I realize I will be viewed as having done so.
I will not use names nor will I address any specifics but I will pose a few questions.
Answer these questions and maybe your own answers will enlighten you:

1. A thief robs me of my watch in an alley and tries to sell it to you a few blocks away. If you knew the watch was stolen, would you buy it with the reasoning that "It's a free country and this is free trade, the essence of capitalism" ??

2. A thief robs you of your watch in an alley and tries to sell it to me a few blocks away. If you were passing by and saw this, would you move on and say to yourself: "I'll be more careful next time"??

3. A thief robs you and me and him and her and......of all of our watches. He corners the market on watches, runs the watch factories out of business and force us to buy watches from him (eventually at a higher price) Do we commend him for being a shrewd businessman? Or do we blame our selves for being stupid not having stopping him when we had a chance?

4. What makes a thief a thief? His business practices or his morality?

5. Have you ever had anything stolen from you?

Matin
will discuss IP but only after you answer the above.
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Old Aug 05, 2011, 11:45 PM
Composites Kid
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Lima, Peru
Joined Jul 2008
3,122 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by KiwiKid View Post
+1 on that SoD.
Amazing.. those photos show that neither the seam tape or the cloth reinforcements are wetted out correctly! And there´s a QC sticker right on top of the worst area!
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Old Aug 05, 2011, 11:54 PM
Hundredaire
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Newcastle Australia
Joined Oct 2008
1,565 Posts
What if you gave him the watch in the first pace?
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Old Aug 06, 2011, 12:50 AM
Just Toss It !!!
MATIN's Avatar
United States, CA, San Diego
Joined May 2004
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mams1 View Post
What if you gave him the watch in the first pace?
Hey! Stick to answering the questions or I'll have to beat you up in a month!

Matin
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Old Aug 06, 2011, 01:13 AM
Ook!
skaffen's Avatar
New Zealand
Joined Aug 2007
1,496 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by KiwiKid View Post
+1 on that SoD. Just a word of warning for anyone with recent RCRCM purchases. Have a good look through your fuse, they have been cheaping out on the strengthening and wacking the QC stickers right on top of it
Daryl, was that Jacko's E-Typhoon, the one that had the motor pull the front of the fuse off?
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Old Aug 06, 2011, 09:18 AM
Impatience is a virtue
MCH27t's Avatar
Denver, Colorado
Joined Nov 2008
686 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by mams1 View Post
What if you gave him the watch in the first place?
Exactly
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