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Old Dec 29, 2011, 04:43 PM
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United States, IL, Joliet
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I have a great planes pby and i would trade it for the c-44 any day.Bart 83 glad to hear you and your dad are giving ivans 400 solent a try ,you wont be sorry.I got his 84inch wingspan twin otter and his 84 inch wing albatross plans a couple weeks ago and waiting for the holidays to end. joe
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Old Jan 09, 2012, 09:07 PM
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Hi Guys, I was thinking for building the widgeon, My family owned two Grummon Gooses in Alaska, so I am a little partial to the Grummon's I have a couple of Common Sense E5-L-8 outrunners- 450 size with Swift 20a esc.. do you think that they would work well I believe the Electrifly rim fire 28-30-750 is equlivant , I don't want it underpowered! jim
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Old Jan 09, 2012, 10:07 PM
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United States, TX, Kingsland
Joined Sep 2005
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Quote:
Originally Posted by burnzy View Post
I don't want it underpowered! jim
That Common Sense motor is a little small for this application. You are going to want something in the 150 to 200 continuous watt performance range with a 900 to 1100 kV rating.

The recommended RimFire 400 motor is the 28-30-950 with an 8" diameter prop. An 8" prop is about the largest diameter you could want to use on the Widgeon.

McD
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Old Jan 10, 2012, 08:56 PM
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Thanks for the warning kingsflyer, I wouldn't want to underpower such a beautiful bird! jim
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Old Jan 11, 2012, 10:14 PM
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Maple Ridge B.C. Canada
Joined Apr 2006
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I bought the Widgeon to fly at the lake where my summer cabin is. The altitude is at 3600 feet. Would the stock rimfire motors be under powered for this altitude?

I have no experience yet with the effects of altitude on model airplanes.

I know I get out of breath if I work too hard.
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Old Jan 11, 2012, 10:35 PM
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United States, CA, Baywood-Los Osos
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stinker View Post
I bought the Widgeon to fly at the lake where my summer cabin is. The altitude is at 3600 feet. Would the stock rimfire motors be under powered for this altitude?

I have no experience yet with the effects of altitude on model airplanes.

I know I get out of breath if I work too hard.
Can't say about the altitude as I live at sea level, but I had "stock" Rimfires on my GP PBY for the first few flights, and it was obviously underpowered IMHO. I rebuilt the motor mounts and installed 2830-11's from Heads Up RC and the difference was amazing, 1/2 throttle was plenty for "scale-like" flight, and take offs took half the distance as before. From what I've read here the Widgeon's wing loading is higher than the PBY, so add altitude to that and I would say yes, the Rimfire's will be anemic, (and twice as expensive).

Sonny
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Old Jan 11, 2012, 11:08 PM
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I'm not an altitude expert, but "Watts is Watts". That is, if you prop up to get the same power output from the stock motors, it should fly the same at altitude as it does at sea level. We are at 1000' ASL here and the stock setup flies great. You may want to try some 8x6 3-blade props at 4000' and see what the wattmeter reads at WOT.

McD
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Old Jan 11, 2012, 11:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kingsflyer View Post
I'm not an altitude expert, but "Watts is Watts". That is, if you prop up to get the same power output from the stock motors, it should fly the same at altitude as it does at sea level. We are at 1000' ASL here and the stock setup flies great. You may want to try some 8x6 3-blade props at 4000' and see what the wattmeter reads at WOT.

McD
That's correct, you can prop up to maintain the thrust but the model will fly faster at 4,000 due to the increase in true airspeed. Very noticeable in a full-size airplane - 100 mph indicated airspeed on approach at a 5,000 elevation airport has a higher ground speed than at sea level.
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Old Jan 12, 2012, 12:01 AM
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So if we can prop the motors to acheive 1:1 thrust in the thin air while inputting the same amount of Watts as at Sea Level, then the plane should perform the same even though it may have to fly faster.

McD
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Old Jan 12, 2012, 02:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kingsflyer View Post
So if we can prop the motors to acheive 1:1 thrust in the thin air while inputting the same amount of Watts as at Sea Level, then the plane should perform the same even though it may have to fly faster.

McD
True, but I still maintain that Rimfire motors will produce less thrust at any altitude. I've owned several of various sizes, have replaced all of them which less expensive equivalents and they all perform better; at less cost! Kingsflyer did a great review, using "stock recommended" motors, but had he used the lesser expensive equivalents I'm sure the flight performance he would have gotten would have been noticeably better, (I speak from experience mind you; 5 GP ARF's, changed the Rimfires on all of them and sold them).
If using the recommended Electrify power systems and servos for GP ARF's, especially those for twins, it will cost more than the ARF by itself did in the first place. As a man of "no means" I cannot afford that, if I didn't use "cheaper" components I would'nt be able to buy their planes. I fundamentally object to GP configuring their ARF's to accept only their power systems; good marketing, sells motors for them, but hard on those on a strict budget who won't be buying their ARF's because they can't afford to power them.

Ok, off the "rant" stool; just my 2 cents!

Sonny
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Old Jan 12, 2012, 10:00 PM
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I just ordered two topstar 2815,s from common sense they are 1350 kv with max power of 260 watts and max current of 36 amps will they work well in the widgeon or am I off base again! jim
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Old Jan 12, 2012, 11:28 PM
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Those look like a much better choice. You will still want to run some prop tests to find the best match for that kV. Start with the 8x6E and check the current draw. Once you are satisfied with the performance, you may also want to consider getting a matching pusher prop for one motor so that you can have counter-rotating props.

McD
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Old Jan 13, 2012, 08:22 PM
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Thanks again for your help!! jim
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Old Jan 19, 2012, 09:03 PM
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I need to lengthen my batt leads from the esc to the battery about 12 in, would it be better to just solder the wires together or use bullet connectors, I would like to use connectors but worry about current drop..any help?..jim
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Old Jan 19, 2012, 09:40 PM
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Current drop is not the problem, the length of the lead from the battery to the ESC is a critical dimension. You can not increase that length more than a couple of inches without causing electrical spike issues that will overload the ESC capacitors and then, over time, damage the FET circuits. It is far better to increase the length of the motor leads. If you look at the Widgeon manual you will see that the recommended installation has the motor leads extended all the way from the motor nacelles into the fuselage to the ESCs and the battery leads remain short.

McD
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