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Old Oct 24, 2011, 10:12 AM
Electric Coolhunter
Thomas B's Avatar
United States, TX, Fort Worth
Joined Jun 2000
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Made some progress on my Widgeon over the weekend. Did run into an unexpected problem using the BP 2212/13 outrunners. They are longer than the Rimfires, due to the collet type prop adapters and using the thin X mount. I have started to mod the motor mounts to add a new firewall about 7/16" to the rear. Easy to do, as the crutch design of the mounts simplifies things. Total mod time for the will be less that two hours.

Well worth the mod to have great powerplants at around 1/3 the price of the Rimfires.
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Old Oct 24, 2011, 10:53 AM
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cracksmeup's Avatar
United States, IL, Joliet
Joined Jun 2009
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Go Pens View Post
Why was is so choppy when you were taking off in the video Bart83? Man, that scares me more than Halloween.
I maybe get beat up for this but it is a small plane with a high wing loading thats why it is so choppy and also flys so fast on take off and landing. Bring it on guys.lol joe
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Old Oct 24, 2011, 11:19 AM
71% of the world is runway . .
Bart83's Avatar
Nederland, ZH, Oostvoorne
Joined Jun 2009
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The video is from TinkermanRC so ask him
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Old Oct 24, 2011, 11:29 AM
Electric Coolhunter
Thomas B's Avatar
United States, TX, Fort Worth
Joined Jun 2000
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Being a little pitchy on takeoff in the video was much more about being a little out of trim on the elevator and having too much elevator throw and not enough expo than it was about wing loading, IMO. Some trim issues are common enough on the first flight of a scale ARF.

In flight, trimmed out and throttled back, the model in the video looked pretty good at reduced speed. The landing was a little too fast, but understandable on a maiden. It can be landed a bit slower at touchdown.

There is no doubt that the model is a little heavy for it's size. I have already twisted some washout into the wingtips with a heat gun to improve handling at slower speeds.

Reading up on the full scale Widgeon, it turns out it was rather challenging to fly. Had a few quirks that demanded pilot skill and attention.
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Old Oct 24, 2011, 12:06 PM
I'd rather be flying
baddb1's Avatar
United States, NY, Saratoga Springs
Joined Jan 2009
1,253 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Thomas B View Post
Made some progress on my Widgeon over the weekend. Did run into an unexpected problem using the BP 2212/13 outrunners. They are longer than the Rimfires, due to the collet type prop adapters and using the thin X mount. I have started to mod the motor mounts to add a new firewall about 7/16" to the rear. Easy to do, as the crutch design of the mounts simplifies things. Total mod time for the will be less that two hours.

Well worth the mod to have great powerplants at around 1/3 the price of the Rimfires.
Good info to know since thats the style motor I was going to use. Can you snap a pic showing the firewall mod.? Much appreciated!
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Old Oct 24, 2011, 01:14 PM
Kool Kats Fly RC!! AMA 30462
sonny1's Avatar
United States, CA, Baywood-Los Osos
Joined Feb 2009
2,788 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Thomas B View Post
Being a little pitchy on takeoff in the video was much more about being a little out of trim on the elevator and having too much elevator throw and not enough expo than it was about wing loading, IMO. Some trim issues are common enough on the first flight of a scale ARF.

In flight, trimmed out and throttled back, the model in the video looked pretty good at reduced speed. The landing was a little too fast, but understandable on a maiden. It can be landed a bit slower at touchdown.

There is no doubt that the model is a little heavy for it's size. I have already twisted some washout into the wingtips with a heat gun to improve handling at slower speeds.

Reading up on the full scale Widgeon, it turns out it was rather challenging to fly. Had a few quirks that demanded pilot skill and attention.
I was wondering about that. The GP PBY drops off in turns if the speed is not kept up as well, and it's AUW is less than the G-44 using essentially the same power system. Would you consider the plane underpowered?

Sonny
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Old Oct 24, 2011, 01:23 PM
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United States, IL, Joliet
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bart83 View Post
The video is from TinkermanRC so ask him
Bart83 i have the greatplanes pby and it has a big wing loading also so i dont have to ask anyone. There is alot of light ply in these birds plus two motors and a big battery to run them . I just call em like i see em . joe
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Old Oct 24, 2011, 02:47 PM
71% of the world is runway . .
Bart83's Avatar
Nederland, ZH, Oostvoorne
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Hey Cracksmeup , i was awnsering to Go Pens sorry if you misunderstood me.

You seem like an experienced rc pilot cracksmeup. What do you thinck about the widgeon from what you have seen so far because i have the idear that you dont like it?
Do you thinck that because of the high wing loading it is impossible to have a nice time flying this plane?

Greetz,

Bart
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Old Oct 24, 2011, 03:35 PM
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I do think you can enjoy it at the lake but if it were lighter would i enjoy it more . The arf companys should try to make them lighter and if not lighter a little larger wing span might help. Iam just happy when any one makes a arf seaplane but would i buy a heavy arf twin ,no . I will keep scratch building my seaplanes so i know how much they weigh and how they will fly. Maybe some day a arf company will make a very light seaplane so i can take a break from building my own but i have not seen any yet. Bart you are right i fly alot off of water and might know a thing or two.lol joe
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Old Oct 24, 2011, 06:16 PM
Where'd it go? Uh Oh!
capngrog's Avatar
Russia, Kamchatka Krai, Petropavlovsk-Kamchatsky
Joined Nov 2004
549 Posts
Tinkerman Video

I watched Tinkerman R.C.'s maiden flight with interest and was concerned about the excessive "porpoising" on takeoff. Freeze framing the video revealed that he had little or no "up" elevator during his run, which could certainly be a factor in the "porpoising". I also ran the take off section of the video several times and noticed that T-R.C. started the takeoff with the airplane already "porpoising" and that the airplane never came up on to the step and a stable plane. In my opinion, the "porpoising" was caused by pilot technique (not enough "up" elevator to climb up onto a stable plane) and not necessarily the design of the airplane itself. As I said, it's just my opinion. Not having flown my Widgeon yet (maybe this coming weekend), I probably should have kept my opinion to myself, but I just couldn't resist the temptation to comment.

I share Thomas B's concern about tip stalling tendencies of airplanes having a relatively high wing loading and tapered wings. To help alleviate this potential problem, I plan to add some "reflex" (approx. 3 degrees intitial "up")to my ailerons.

The wing cube loading of my Great Planes PBY is 11.4, and I think that it flies like a trainer. The wing cube loading of the Widgeon is 14.6 (at 61 oz. All Up Weight) which is about 28% higher than that of the PBY. It shouldn't be too bad.

I bet the Widgeon flies better than I do (I aint all that great on the sticks).

Cheers,
Grog
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Old Oct 24, 2011, 06:37 PM
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pda4you's Avatar
USA, TX, Trophy Club
Joined May 2002
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Quote:
Originally Posted by capngrog View Post
I watched Tinkerman R.C.'s maiden flight with interest and was concerned about the excessive "porpoising" on takeoff. Freeze framing the video revealed that he had little or no "up" elevator during his run, which could certainly be a factor in the "porpoising".
It was pretty clear not much experience. Started bad, no up and the landing was lucky. It actually shows it will be quite forgiving. When he planted the tip float I was sure he was done for. Then to see how close to the shore he was it was lucky again!

The other video shows a much better procedure.
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Old Oct 25, 2011, 10:49 AM
71% of the world is runway . .
Bart83's Avatar
Nederland, ZH, Oostvoorne
Joined Jun 2009
1,772 Posts
@cracksmeup , nice photo's there of the ivan's paln short Solent. I ordered a set of plans for the Shor Solent 400 a few weeks ago for my dad , he is getting startet this winter hope it works out ( he's now having trouble with the 'inch' measurements.
In the meantime im still waiteng for my widgeon to arrive so now im ''restoring'' a second hand Robbe seabee . . ( http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showt...1016513&page=7 )

Greetz ,

Bart
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Old Oct 25, 2011, 11:16 AM
Clean up! The missus is home
huntingfield's Avatar
United States, MD, Salisbury
Joined Dec 2007
601 Posts
I finished assembling my Widgeon a couple of days ago. I am using the Gens ace Mars BL 2722-980kv motors with the 25 amp esc(bec on one esc disabled) included in the combo from Hobbypartz. The props are the gp 8x6 slowfly props, all powered by a blue lipo 3300 3s. I am using Hi tech hs 55 servos at all locations. My radio is Hi tech optic 6 2.4. I managed to get in a couple of test flights this morning ( sorry no video). I hand lauched the plane for the first flight ( grass flying field) and the plane flew quite well. The speed has to be kept up due to the weight of the plane but it flew well at 3/4 throttle. I managed a very nice landing on the grass. For the second flight I accomplished a grass take off with no problem, I even managed a touch and go! When I was done I felt the battery it was only slightly warm. The Widgeon is a very nice flying plane with no bad manners.
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Old Oct 25, 2011, 11:17 AM
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United States, PA, Venetia
Joined Nov 2010
118 Posts
TinkermanRC did a nice taxi, should have used the same method on takeoff. I'm not scared anymore. Anyone take off from grass yet? Will try on snow as soon as we get some in the burgh.
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Last edited by Go Pens; Oct 25, 2011 at 11:48 AM.
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Old Oct 25, 2011, 12:19 PM
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United States, IL, Joliet
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Bart ,mine is the 480 size and half way through the build i wished i had built the 400 size instead. With a 99 inch wing and 6 ft long fuse its a pain to load in and out of my van till i built custom racks inside. Your seebee looks great and its another one on my build list . I ordered ivans albitross plans and his twin otter also. If your dad has any questions when building his, tell him to pm me and maybe i can help. joe
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