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Old Aug 07, 2011, 11:34 AM
Southern Pride
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Haralson County GA. USA
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Yes balancing leads are not heavy enough for charging at high amps. and in fact with most chargers I would not charge thru them at over 2amps. however my point was that node only charging is possible with the CP10XP and other chargers which do not have Node Only charging built in per say.



Charles
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Old Aug 11, 2011, 11:33 AM
The earth sucks! Thankfully.
United States, OK, Tulsa
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Preset Library Similarities to Multi4?

Howard:

I'm reading the manual for the 10XP where I find 10 presets come with the 10XP (XP) which can be modified.

My Multi4 has a library of 25 that I can set up using the Charge Control Software (CCS). I use this when I need something different than what I have in my usable presets. Very handy.

I don't find this in the XP manual. Does the XP have that capability?

Thanks.
- Jim
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Old Aug 11, 2011, 11:55 AM
President, FMA, Inc.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JimHSoars View Post
Howard:

I'm reading the manual for the 10XP where I find 10 presets come with the 10XP (XP) which can be modified.

My Multi4 has a library of 25 that I can set up using the Charge Control Software (CCS). I use this when I need something different than what I have in my usable presets. Very handy.

I don't find this in the XP manual. Does the XP have that capability?

Thanks.
- Jim
Hi Jim:

Howard is out testing something today. I'll answer your question. The Cellpro 10XP is a different user interface from the Multi4. It's based on the original Cellpro 10s interface, and it is simpler. There are far fewer parameters available for customers to have to worry about. Therefore, library presets are not required. In the CCS, for each preset, you can adjust the following:

1) Name
2) Chemistry/Cell Count
3) Charge Current
4) Assignment of a Fuel Table
5) Whether the preset will be used for Dual Packs

I recommend you download and install the Cellpro 10XP Charge Control Software and take a look at the Presets tab, second link on the Resources tab of the following product page:

http://www.revolectrix.com/10xp_links_tab.htm

I have attached a screen capture of this CCS tab. This is what it looks like when the charger is connected to the PC. If you install the software, you will not see the actual preset data which uploads from the charger when you connect; just blank fields.

Tim Marks
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Old Aug 11, 2011, 12:09 PM
The earth sucks! Thankfully.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tim Marks View Post
Hi Jim:

Howard is out testing something today. I'll answer your question. The Cellpro 10XP is a different user interface from the Multi4. It's based on the original Cellpro 10s interface, and it is simpler. There are far fewer parameters available for customers to have to worry about. Therefore, library presets are not required. [...]Tim Marks
Those are certainly positive aspects to the 10s interface.

I do like the flexibility of Multi4 interface though. Perhaps you can add it later on.

Does the PL8 use an interface similar to the Multi4?

Thanks.
- Jim
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Old Aug 11, 2011, 01:17 PM
President, FMA, Inc.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JimHSoars View Post
Those are certainly positive aspects to the 10s interface.

I do like the flexibility of Multi4 interface though. Perhaps you can add it later on.

Does the PL8 use an interface similar to the Multi4?

Thanks.
- Jim
Hi:

We design the user interfaces of various chargers to meet what we perceive to be a particular target market for product, and we also must take cost of hardware and cost of development into consideration. It's not likely we will make the 10s family of products mirror the Multi4/PowerLab family. Yes, the PL8 interface is built on the Multi4. If you are familiar with, and enjoy the Multi4 interface, you'll know how to work a PL8 off the bat. It's actually easier because, even to navigate at the unit because of the 4 button interface.

Tim Marks
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Old Aug 11, 2011, 05:28 PM
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Thanks Tim.

- Jim
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Old Aug 12, 2011, 06:59 PM
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Apologies for the delay getting back to this thread. Iíve been traveling and away from a full sized keyboard for several weeks. I didnít want to attempt the following reply on my phone.

Q) What is the problem with 3s, 6s ... batteries and the 10XP?
A) Not a problem per sa. But if you look at the table below, you can see much higher charge rates are possible for 3s and 6s packs. For my charging needs (mostly helicopters), Iím parallel charging 6 x 3s packs at a time at 2c each for my 450. For my 500 and 600 Iím charging 4 x 6s packs at 3c. On the 10XP, its possible to achieve similar charge rates on 3s for those that can build dual 3 pack parallel charge cables. (see the images below). I suspect few modlers would take the time, prefering off-the-shelf cables. For 6s, the 10XP could only do 2x3300 packs at just over 2c. That is not bad, but nowhere near the 4 packs at 3c each on the Powerlab8.



Q) Please provide specifics about the wattage, I don't understand.
A) See the charge above for wattages comparison between the 10XP and the Powerlab8. As this is the XP announcement thread in the FMA forum, Iíll respectfully omit specific comparisons to other manufactures products. Regardless of those comparisons, I would happily pay more for an FMA charger with similar or lesser specs.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SteveM732 View Post
He's saying that for him to be happy with a charger he needs to be able to use a pack or series of packs that is nearly equal to the maximum cell count supported by the charger, which then allows utilization of as much of the available power as possible.
The issue is not about reaching 100% of the chargerís capacity. The issue is about reaching 100% of the modelers charging scenarios. Simply put, for most helicopter pilots (running 3s, 6s and 12s), the Powerlab8 will do a much better job at satisfying charging scenarios from the 450 to the 700 sized models. While no two modelers charging scenarios are the same, with helicopters the majority of charging scenarios are better serviced by the PL8.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tim Marks View Post
I'm not sure if Gregor99 feels if we are somehow attempting to deceive customers into thinking they'll get more power than they will actually get? I don't really think that's what he means, but he'd have to clarify that remark I guess.
Tim, you are correct. In no way was in insinuating anything of the sort. I apologize if anyone in this thread took my comments that way. As Charles correctly mentioned, understanding a chargerís capabilities can be complicated for the average modeler. I have seen some comments regarding other manufactures products where a user purchased based on one or two specifications. But the user became dissatisfied when their charging scenario didnít meet their expectations because they didnít provide high enough input voltage, or assumed the chargerís maximum wattage rating applied to all pack configurations.

Since the Cellpro10s was released, FMA has done a particularly good job at describing the chargerís maximum wattage based on a range of input voltages. Iíve noticed other manufactures have followed FMAís lead on this and included those ratings in their manuals. What may be missing is the output wattage rating based on pack configuration. Again, FMA has provided a spreadsheet for the Powerlab8 which can be helpful for those that do not want to do the manual calculations. With the charts in the manual and the spreadsheet, FMA has gone above and beyond to provide information about thier chargers capabilities. However, these resources may not always be used or fully understood.
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Old Aug 13, 2011, 10:42 AM
Southern Pride
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Haralson County GA. USA
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Those are a couple of really nice comparison tables . The foot notes "Assumes minimum input voltages is supplied" shouldn't that be maximum. Somehow mine does not do that well on 12V much less 10V.

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showp...1&postcount=33

2ea. 3S set for 15A charge using 12V input ,just prior to CV cells at 4.17 output 9.3A .

6X 4.17 X 9.3 = 232 watts .

Using 24V power supply same two 3S were charged at 15A .

6X 4.2 X 15 =378 watts ( perfect match to your table)



Charles
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Last edited by everydayflyer; Aug 13, 2011 at 11:19 AM.
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Old Aug 13, 2011, 01:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by everydayflyer View Post
The foot notes "Assumes minimum input voltages is supplied" shouldn't that be maximum.
Good feedback. I meant the minimum input voltage required to obtain the charger's maximum output current. Not the minimum voltage the charger supports. I see how that could be confusing so I changed the wording.
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Old Aug 13, 2011, 03:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gregor99 View Post
Good feedback. I meant the minimum input voltage required to obtain the charger's maximum output current. Not the minimum voltage the charger supports. I see how that could be confusing so I changed the wording.
Hi Gregor99:

I think your chart is really good and really useful to customers considering between these products. I wonder if it might also be helpful to include columns for "max current" in amps in addition to the wattage? These two products represent different target markets as there is a substantial price differential between the two. But many will wish to consider purchase of one vs the other, and wondering whether they can justify the higher price to move into a PL8 as opposed to the 10XP. Adding amps to the chart could make it even easier for them to benchmark the "power" aspect of the two chargers for purposes of comparison.

Of course there are other reasons to consider one product over another, and as Charles always points out, there is no "one size fits all" for every customer....at least not yet.

I'm going to think about some kind of product selector guide we might post on our website; e.g., "Need help selecting a charger or battery workstation?", which would include factors based on price, power, features, interface, etc.

Thanks for the inspiration.

Tim Marks
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Old Aug 13, 2011, 04:18 PM
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USA
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gregor99 View Post

Simply put, for most helicopter pilots (running 3s, 6s and 12s), the Powerlab8 will do a much better job at satisfying charging scenarios from the 450 to the 700 sized models. While no two modelers charging scenarios are the same, with helicopters the majority of charging scenarios are better serviced by the PL8.
That's what I was thinking.... Additionally, 14s will be gaining in popularity very soon as we start to see 800 size helis become available.

I believe most of the pattern pilots are running 10s so perhaps the Cellpro 10XP may be better choice for them.
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Old Aug 14, 2011, 10:23 AM
D. Bubolz
Black Creek, WI
Joined Dec 2008
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Does anyone know what charge leads ect. come with the 10xp or if there is going to be any combo deals? I didnt notice any on the site.
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Old Aug 14, 2011, 12:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by R/C FLYER View Post
Does anyone know what charge leads ect. come with the 10xp or if there is going to be any combo deals? I didnt notice any on the site.
Hi:

Combo deals will be available, but not until the charger is a normal "stocking" item. The first batch is a relatively small number of chargers.

Tim Marks
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Old Aug 29, 2011, 05:28 PM
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They're here!
We received the shipment today and will begin filling backorders this week and into next week. A small quantity on the first run is still available, so order now. Second production run units will be available in late September.
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Old Aug 30, 2011, 03:22 PM
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Arived and out of stock:-(.
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