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Old Aug 03, 2011, 06:55 PM
President, FMA, Inc.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JimHSoars View Post
Gregor99:

What is the problem with 3s, 6s ... batteries and the 10XP?


Please provide specifics about the wattage, I don't understand.

TIA
- Jim
Hi:

I think SteveM did a really good job of answering your first question, but I think he might have over-looked your second one.

To answer your question about the available output wattage of the CP10XP, simplest place to start is to check out the graph on page 9 of the user guide.

http://revolectrix.fmadirect.com/sup.../item_1375.pdf

You can read all the information, but let me try to explain it in simple terms. The more voltage you supply to the Cellpro 10XP input, the more wattage you can obtain at the charger's output. This is because Power (watts) = volts * current, ohms law. Simply put, more watts = faster charging, or charging more batteries (in parallel) at more normal rates.

I'm not sure if Gregor99 feels if we are somehow attempting to deceive customers into thinking they'll get more power than they will actually get? I don't really think that's what he means, but he'd have to clarify that remark I guess. In any event, we rate our chargers just like any other reputable supplier on the market. Look at the chart. If you can supply +32V DC to the charger input, you can obtain 645W maximum charger output to a 10s battery with the current set for 15A charge. We recommend you don't supply the full +32V input in the manual because it's pushing up against the absolute maximum input voltage. So we rate it as a 600W charger using +30V input.

But if you can only supply, e.g., the +12V of your car's lead acid battery to the input, then the total wattage at the output falls to around 234W (again see the chart). So, we've posted all the information. At some point, it has to be up to the customer to understand what the information means I think?

But I need to make a couple points if I might:

1) Other chargers on the market which fall into roughly a similar wattage (or even slightly higher) category at +12VDC input do not let you increase the input supply voltage beyond +15 or +18V DC. Therefore, there's no way you will ever be able to achieve the kind of power you can with the Cellpro 10XP. I consider this to be an important feature of the charger.

2) Many, many customers are looking to higher power chargers to charge there XYZ 50C+ discharge batteries at breath-taking speeds. If you are one of those customers, but you are also limited in how much you can spend, the Cellpro 10XP is a really good candidate in my humble opinion. Many customers are able to pull together +24V (or higher) power supplies for use either at home on the bench, or in the field. Some series-wire server power supplies, some use 2 marine deep discharge lead acids in series. Some utilize generators at the field to power their power supplies. The point is, it's becoming commonplace, and with the 10XP you can reach 500+ watts on the charger output without much difficulty, all at a very reasonable price.

Can you say "parallel charging"?

Hope this helps!

Tim Marks
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Old Aug 04, 2011, 07:11 AM
Southern Pride
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This is an area when much research needs to be done if one if truely seeking max. available output for X number of cells from X voltage power supply,IMO.

I use 12V nonimal deep cycles at the field and thus realize that as they sag to approx. 11.5 V under load and perhaps down to 10.5 as the day wears on or I have multi chargers charging at the same time at higher amps. This leads me to check available output in the 10.5 to 11.5 range more.
A few input / available output numbers.

10XP 12V in / 234 watts out. and a mx. of 15 amps. per cell.

Unnamed charger 12V in / 250 watt out and max of 20A per cell
17V input / 350 watts output ( can be used with up to 32V input but max. output is obtained with 17V input.)


I have posted numerious times I really could care less what XYZ charger does on 14.8 V or 15.4 volts as these are not voltages I will be using.

I use 12 or 24V at home as I use server power supplies and at the field I use 10.5 - 13V as in two each 12V deep cycles in parallel total of 250 Ah. I can switch them to series in around 3 minutes but rarely do. If my deep cycles are sagging then I can crank up the Blazer and they get a 30amps. boost or I just come home and take a break while I charge the Pbs back up.

Comparing two or more chargers based on watts output with available volts input only is a very limited comparison but each needs to evualate their needs not mine or thier FB (flying buddy).

Charles
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Old Aug 04, 2011, 02:01 PM
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CellPro10 XP two ea. 3S 3300 opne on each channel

Both of these 3S 3300 are over two years old and have over 250 cycles on them. They were discharged to approx. 3.7 volts per cell.

Added for clarification: 3.35 under load which resulted in approx. 3.7V per cell no load or less than 10% remaining capacity
.
Charge rate was set at 15A however as a 12V power supply was used the charge rate only reach approx. a little over 10A down to 9.32 A , see attachments.

The charger was pulling 24-25 amps. from the power supply and 25A is the max. for this charger per specs.


Added charges with 24V PS 16-17Amps. pulled by charger from PS.

Changed setting to Dual Channel so that each LiPolys data would be shown.
Attachments 7 and 8

Charles
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Old Aug 05, 2011, 01:39 PM
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Just about to place an order for one of these as very happy with my 2 original cellpro's still running version 1.08v

My question is I have a 6s battery if I'm reading things correctly the maximum I will be able to charge off of a 12v car battery will be around 10amps? Have a done my maths right?

And second question if I buy the USB cable version 3 can I update my original cellpros with that cable also?
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Old Aug 05, 2011, 02:24 PM
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Yes charging a 6S would be the same rate as charging two 3S in the series mode as shown in my post .

All of the FMA chargers (which have a PC interface connection point) use the same computer (USB )interface , FUIM 2 or 3 , 3 being a bit faster however the 2 works fine. Iam not sure if all FMA chargers can be updated firmware wise. I know that the Cell Pro 10,CellPro 10XP and the POWERLAB8 can be updated.

Covered earlier but as a reminder CellPro10 can not be update to CellPro10XP.

Charles
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Old Aug 05, 2011, 02:45 PM
President, FMA, Inc.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by topgearuk View Post
Just about to place an order for one of these as very happy with my 2 original cellpro's still running version 1.08v

My question is I have a 6s battery if I'm reading things correctly the maximum I will be able to charge off of a 12v car battery will be around 10amps? Have a done my maths right?

And second question if I buy the USB cable version 3 can I update my original cellpros with that cable also?
Hi:

When you say your "original cellpro's", I need to caution you. If you mean the Cellpro 4s, this unit does not support PC internet updates. You can get the firmware updated on these, but you have to send them in to FMA in Maryland.

If you mean Cellpro 10s, then yes, you can update those with the FUIM2 or FUIM3 interface.

Tim Marks
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Old Aug 06, 2011, 04:36 PM
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Does this new charger support discharging?
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Old Aug 06, 2011, 04:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tim Marks View Post
Hi:

When you say your "original cellpro's", I need to caution you. If you mean the Cellpro 4s, this unit does not support PC internet updates. You can get the firmware updated on these, but you have to send them in to FMA in Maryland.

If you mean Cellpro 10s, then yes, you can update those with the FUIM2 or FUIM3 interface.

Tim Marks
Thanks for your reply, yes sorry did mean the original cellpro 4. Running v1.08.. Never mind about using the USB they work fine so will leave them as is. But will pull the trigger on the 10xp
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Old Aug 06, 2011, 05:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BMW318TI View Post
Does this new charger support discharging?
Specs. in first post of thread.

Snip:

Discharge current: 1A per cell nominal (42W max) for storage discharging Li


Charles
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Old Aug 06, 2011, 05:45 PM
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Okay I am blind

I didn't know my new CP 10S don't have the discharge feature
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Old Aug 07, 2011, 10:30 AM
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Thanks for help all!
I have just modified the Hyperion adapters:-).





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Old Aug 07, 2011, 11:03 AM
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Just a reminder for others who may be using the new CP10XP which this thread is really for.

The main charging leads would also have to be used as the XP does not support Node Only charging. The main charging leads would need to be in parallel with the Node(balancing) connections .
Also if one does decide to have main leads in parallel with the balancing leads but uses only the balancing connections please place protective covers over the exposed bullets to prevent direct shorts. A length of surgial tubing or large fuel tubing serves well for this.

Charles
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Old Aug 07, 2011, 11:22 AM
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I thought I'd read in the instructions it could charge through the balance leads up too 4A then anything above would also need the battery leads also? Wonder why they changed this?
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Old Aug 07, 2011, 11:32 AM
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Quote:
I thought I'd read in the instructions it could charge through the balance leads up too 4A then anything above would also need the battery leads also?
Correct for the original CellPro10 however not for the new CellPro10XP.
Once again this difference (No Node Only Charging) is listed in the first post of this thread. The CP10XP does not come with a Plug Blocker and can not be used with one.

There are means around this such as I pointed out elsewhere. The CP10XP Manual has excellent wiring drawings for charging / balancing wiring.

I will once again point out that in fact that the two balancing leads on any LiPoly be it 1S or 10S are in fact connected inside the battery to the same points as the main power leads. If the main charging leads are thus connected to these same two balancing leads then in fact any charger is capable of node only charging. The issue becomes the fact that there are many different balancing wiring orders use by the different LiPoly brands.
Note The post here is not for FMA node wiring however the Thunder Power balancing leads order is in fact the same as XH mode.

Visit my now very old post on balancing connections / adapters

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showp...0&postcount=29

Note in all drawing showing LiPolys cells connected in series that indeed the power leads and two of the balancing leads are connected in parallel.

Charles
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Old Aug 07, 2011, 11:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by everydayflyer View Post
I will once again point out that in fact that the two balancing leads on any LiPoly be it 1S or 10S are in fact connected inside the battery to the same points as the main power leads. If the main charging leads are thus connected to these same two balancing leads then in fact any charger is capable of node only charging. The issue becomes the fact that there are many different balancing wiring orders use by the different LiPoly.
Very true, however I wouldn't want to charge above 4amps through the balancing cables anyway, they maybe good for 10A at most but not for any length of time.
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