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Old Jan 26, 2013, 11:56 PM
More Planes Than Sense
wgarman's Avatar
United States, PA, Wexford
Joined Feb 2010
338 Posts
For those of you that have flown this off snow and water, how does take offs and landings on water compare to snow? I have yet to have an opportunity to fly this off water, but I have had a lot of success and fun from snow. I'm curious about the similarities.
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Old Jan 27, 2013, 02:04 AM
Fly Freely, Fly Responsibly
Fort Worth, TX
Joined Jan 2010
727 Posts
I've been looking at this thread much of the day today....

What a NICE bird!

I have a Power 10 powered T-28, Stinson, Mini Ultra Stick, and a GP F-86 that I haven't even maidened yet that I got for Christmas!

Where am I goin' with this?

I like, and wanted, all the above planes...sure.

This is the FIRST plane that I HAVE to have...full stop!

I'll go back to page 55 and continue reading...

It'd be a better idea to get a few bills knocked out first, but my "CC" hand is lunging toward the lever...

Soon... Soon...
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Old Jan 27, 2013, 03:24 AM
Let me Fly please :^)
Paul-RC's Avatar
Montreal,Canada
Joined Mar 2003
3,591 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by wgarman View Post
For those of you that have flown this off snow and water, how does take offs and landings on water compare to snow? I have yet to have an opportunity to fly this off water, but I have had a lot of success and fun from snow. I'm curious about the similarities.
I flew mine off snow and grass and way over 100 flights off water and its great off water. Just watch out on windy days as it does nose over very easely with a tail wind.
On take off keep full up elevator until off the water then release, this prevents the Icon from jumping across the water.
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Old Jan 27, 2013, 10:05 PM
Fly Freely, Fly Responsibly
Fort Worth, TX
Joined Jan 2010
727 Posts
Well, I'm up to page 82 now....

Man, oh man, oh man....I've got several micro heli's, both T-28's (UM and 'regular'), Stinson, MUS and a new GP micro F-86 not maindened yet...BUT....

...I've never wanted a plane as bad as I want this one!!

Few questions:

-JimL: Twice you've mentioned shimming the horizontal stab. With what and how much? Does the mount fit flush with no 'play' in what you used?

-Can anyone who's a 'late adopter' (like I'm gonna' be ) confirm that they are now shipping with red props and spinner?

-Lastly, 2 of my Rx's that COULD be used are currently "tied up" in other A/C. What Rx is in the BNF version, if I go that route instead of the PnP? I may be able to free-up an AR6200 from one of my planes, but the AR500 wouldn't allow flaperons, as it's a little limited in that dept.

I'll join you guys fairly soon! Back to page 82....
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Old Jan 28, 2013, 12:09 AM
Registered User
Sydney Australia
Joined Aug 2009
409 Posts
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Originally Posted by Firehawk989 View Post
Hot glue will be tough to get right over such a large area. Epoxy, good ole fashioned white wood glue, or something like UHU Por is what I would go with. You'll have a better chance at making it look almost new if you have the time, patience, and ability to clamp/stabilize the joint for white glue.

Used epoxy and white glue in different places on my Cessna trainer wing and it never broke in the same place twice.
White glue is water soluble so wouldnt be the best option. Epoxy would be the glue to use.
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Old Jan 28, 2013, 07:54 AM
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JimL's Avatar
Green Bay, Wis.
Joined May 2003
225 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by WhirlyBits View Post
-JimL: Twice you've mentioned shimming the horizontal stab. With what and how much? Does the mount fit flush with no 'play' in what you used?
I like to have my planes trimmed to fly level at throttle. To do this with the Icon when new I had to use almost full up trim on the elevator. So I decided to shim up the horizontal stabilizer to get the elevator close to neutral trim.
With the stabilizer removed there are two mounting surfaces about 2” by ”. Cut two 1/8” thick pieces of foam this size. Sand them to make wedges to get a flush fit. I mounted the shims with double sided tape in case I wanted to remove them. They haven’t moved.
Reassemble and sight from the front to check that the horizontal stabilizer is level with the wing. If not, sand down one of the shims until the stabilizer is level.
I have many flights on the plane since this mod and it flies stable. My elevator trim is just a couple clicks of up now.

Wgarman - I have 1 flight from snow and about 80 from water and 1 from wheels. I found from my one flight that flying off the snow was not much different from flying off water. Just need a little more throttle to get it to start moving on snow.

FastFreddy – I also broke the top off mine in a crash. It broke at the base of the pylon. I used gorilla glue since it is waterproof. It has worked fine since then.
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Old Jan 28, 2013, 09:21 AM
Fly Freely, Fly Responsibly
Fort Worth, TX
Joined Jan 2010
727 Posts
Thanks, Jim!

I figured that'd be the case and the material used would likely have pliability, as well as being fairly solid. When I get mine (soon) I'll obviously flight test it first and probably do so as well. I don't like flying any A/C myself, if it take more than 2 clicks. At the very least, it imposes more drag have more deflection on the surface than desired.

[QUOTE=JimL;23956303] I like to have my planes trimmed to fly level at throttle. To do this with the Icon when new I had to use almost full up trim on the elevator. So I decided to shim up the horizontal stabilizer to get the elevator close to neutral trim.
With the stabilizer removed there are two mounting surfaces about 2” by ”. Cut two 1/8” thick pieces of foam this size. Sand them to make wedges to get a flush fit. I mounted the shims with double sided tape in case I wanted to remove them. They haven’t moved.
Reassemble and sight from the front to check that the horizontal stabilizer is level with the wing. If not, sand down one of the shims until the stabilizer is level.
I have many flights on the plane since this mod and it flies stable. My elevator trim is just a couple clicks of up now. [QUOTE]
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Old Jan 30, 2013, 08:10 AM
above us only sky
Renfield's Avatar
United States, SC, Greenville
Joined Jan 2006
838 Posts
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Originally Posted by WhirlyBits View Post
At the very least, it imposes more drag have more deflection on the surface than desired.
Interesting observation. When I broke the fuse and reassembled, my tail incidence was off enough to require 1/4 inch up elevator for level flight. Could the additional drag from the tail create enough rear authority to reduce or negate the dutch roll???

I left it alone, with the up elevator trim set high, and never had half the dutch roll/tail wag issue with old number one since then. I attributed the change to reinforcements, but maybe it was just the drag?!?
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Old Jan 30, 2013, 09:53 AM
Fly Freely, Fly Responsibly
Fort Worth, TX
Joined Jan 2010
727 Posts
It could be, Ren. My general rule-of-thumb is that if the width of the deflecting surface (aileron, elevator, rudder) is more than half the width of the surface (e.g. a trailing edge of an aileron width measuring 1/8" would be 1/16" allowance), then I zero trims on the Tx and use clevis threading, shims, whatever to completely zero it out until I need no more than 2 clicks on my Tx for stable flight with minimal surface deflection. Works for me...

EDIT: At 50% power
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Old Jan 30, 2013, 10:06 AM
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aurorae's Avatar
Joined Sep 2008
675 Posts
I had mine on wheels to start then took them off to fly off water. Now when it has been raining I fly off our grass field, wet or frosty grass works good.
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Old Jan 30, 2013, 10:15 AM
Fly Freely, Fly Responsibly
Fort Worth, TX
Joined Jan 2010
727 Posts
Surprisingly, I'll be using wheels 85% of the time.

This seems like a good platform for 'nailing' wheel landings...
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Old Jan 30, 2013, 01:57 PM
above us only sky
Renfield's Avatar
United States, SC, Greenville
Joined Jan 2006
838 Posts
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Originally Posted by WhirlyBits View Post
Surprisingly, I'll be using wheels 85% of the time.

This seems like a good platform for 'nailing' wheel landings...
They make it look so good on the Icon website, holding off the nose wheel until it's practically walking speed. Nice.

I tried it once on the land. My field wasn't ideal - baseball diamond. And I was a green heli pilot. Flaps might've helped, but the results weren't pretty. I basically augured in. Fortunately lake access is what drove my interest. But boating is such a money pit. (like this hobby isn't!?!) Now I have both.

Good on ya with wheel landings, but I'll take the water every time. You should see the looks we get when I fly wingman alongside the boat. Just feeling like you can reach out and touch it in flight is priceless. And the taxi under bridges is a hoot. Gotta watch that wake!

If I can ever lay my hands on one, I'd like to try the true amphibian version with the 71" wingspan. Take off in the parking lot, land in the water, taxi ashore. What could be better?

Winds 20-30 mph today. Watching Icon videos.

Cheers!
George
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Old Jan 30, 2013, 02:15 PM
above us only sky
Renfield's Avatar
United States, SC, Greenville
Joined Jan 2006
838 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by WhirlyBits View Post
It could be, Ren. My general rule-of-thumb is that if the width of the deflecting surface (aileron, elevator, rudder) is more than half the width of the surface (e.g. a trailing edge of an aileron width measuring 1/8" would be 1/16" allowance), then I zero trims on the Tx and use clevis threading, shims, whatever to completely zero it out until I need no more than 2 clicks on my Tx for stable flight with minimal surface deflection. Works for me...

EDIT: At 50% power
I'm with you 100% on the "usual" setup. Trim should be a minimal fix.

Did the best I could eyeballing the tail rebuild, but it ended up a bit askew. Rather than shim the horizontal stab, I just went with it. But the dutch roll practically went away. So a little tail drag might be a good thing? Sort of kite like. Anyway, that one is a parts donor now.

She had a brilliant life, but I don't recommend the Icon as a transition from helicopters. One wing servo from my first Icon is now an elevator servo in my HK small Icon.
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Old Jan 30, 2013, 06:49 PM
Fly Freely, Fly Responsibly
Fort Worth, TX
Joined Jan 2010
727 Posts
I'll have to read-up on the 71" one some more. I think Thomas B had been saying that availability is a concern. I don't recall what was said about parts reliability and fit/finish. I'll re-read. Since PZ partnered with the Icon folks in the design (read: "licensing"), and I haven't heard anyone say much bad about the model - it's what I'm stickin' with! I think most PZ airplanes are EXCELLENT!
The only issue I had with my T-28 was the brittle/breakable nosewheel. There are (permanent) fixes for that, but won't go into it in this thread - mine is now fine for a LONG time now!

Yeah, what really got me sizzlin' about the A5 is that I used to fly the Lake Renegade in Flight Unlimited 3 flight sim for a LONG time! Land in water, extend gear, drive up on the beach! Later, someone made a model for X-Plane - not quite as good, flight-model-wise, and some "issues" with it bouncing into the air 30ft. or so at the water/land transition - but that's another story...

Lake Renegade for $285,000 or so, or 100 HP Rotax in the 2-place A5 for $135,000 or so?
Hmmm...let me sleep on it and call my bank in the morning with my decision!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Renfield View Post
If I can ever lay my hands on one, I'd like to try the true amphibian version with the 71" wingspan. Take off in the parking lot, land in the water, taxi ashore. What could be better?
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Old Jan 31, 2013, 09:57 AM
above us only sky
Renfield's Avatar
United States, SC, Greenville
Joined Jan 2006
838 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by WhirlyBits View Post
I'll have to read-up on the 71" one some more. I think Thomas B had been saying that availability is a concern. I don't recall what was said about parts reliability and fit/finish. I'll re-read. Since PZ partnered with the Icon folks in the design (read: "licensing"), and I haven't heard anyone say much bad about the model - it's what I'm stickin' with! I think most PZ airplanes are EXCELLENT!
+1 for Horizon/Park. Love my Stinson, Albatross, SuperCub, Carbon Cub, and of course BOTH my PZ Icons. I do like the scale characteristics of the HK Icon wing, with it's pre-cut flaps. Perhaps PZ will recast the wing mold at some point?

Thomas B has the two extremes, HK small Icon and KMP Large one. He's maidened the PZ for a friend and had several flights. Though he speaks well of the medium sized PZ, he prefers the big one.

Unfortunately, right now the big 71" truly amphibious Icon A5 is made of pure 100% unobtainium. I pre-purchased the electronics for it, based upon a lie by my LHS. ("KMP has stock, it will definitely be here before Christmas!") NOT!!!

Just finished reading this entire thread for the first time. Too windy to fly. Now I'm almost embarrassed for having asked questions already answered. I would, however, be extremely embarrassed if I had asked which way to mount the prop. LOL.
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