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Old Nov 10, 2012, 07:14 PM
Have fun
airpower's Avatar
Joined May 2007
6,088 Posts
Pouncer,
I heavily disagree.
AS3X is actually very gentle, the chaos you describe would never happen. When giving rudder it will decrease elevator and roll coupling, but never try to completely get rid of it, thats not what AS3X does.
And about knife edge and hover, only one AS3X plane knife edges and hovers, the hyper taxi, AS3X isnt for making a plane do 3D and precision aerobatics.
AS3X will never give full input to completely eliminate anything or maintain knife edge or hover, as you said, it wont make the plane something it isnt. AS3X just smooths everything out and decreases coupling.
For example if you roll an AS3X 90 degress, it wont maintain knife edge, it will give a little rudder so that the nose goes down less, but you have to make it maintain knife edge.

If this doesnt make sense look at the AS3X Mig, it is capable of nothing more than sport aerobatics and AS3X works perfect.

All the system does is smoothen and decrease coupling, making a plane fly larger, smoother, and fly very very scale.
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Old Nov 11, 2012, 11:12 AM
Wanton construction
Pouncer's Avatar
Stockholm Sweden
Joined Sep 2006
956 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by johnkielsen View Post
Why not put a elevator on top of the fins over the rudders., and a as3x plus and extra servo for the elevator. No mix
Sacriledge!

Quote:
Originally Posted by airpower View Post
Pouncer,
I heavily disagree.
AS3X is actually very gentle, the chaos you describe would never happen. When giving rudder it will decrease elevator and roll coupling, but never try to completely get rid of it, thats not what AS3X does.
And about knife edge and hover, only one AS3X plane knife edges and hovers, the hyper taxi, AS3X isnt for making a plane do 3D and precision aerobatics.
AS3X will never give full input to completely eliminate anything or maintain knife edge or hover, as you said, it wont make the plane something it isnt. AS3X just smooths everything out and decreases coupling.
For example if you roll an AS3X 90 degress, it wont maintain knife edge, it will give a little rudder so that the nose goes down less, but you have to make it maintain knife edge.

If this doesnt make sense look at the AS3X Mig, it is capable of nothing more than sport aerobatics and AS3X works perfect.

All the system does is smoothen and decrease coupling, making a plane fly larger, smoother, and fly very very scale.
But the AS3X is also marketed as a system making certain 3D maneuvres easier, see the hovering B3D in the promotional video, something that was deemed impossible with the original Beast, and the SBach comes with SFG's (Side Force Generators, a fancy name for two pieces of Depron sheet to straddle the wing), making KE easier.

And I do have the mQX (fun!), the Beast 3D (didn't like it, dropped the brick in a SU-26 and loved it) and the MiG (beautiful, but EDF isn't my thing) so am well acquainted with the AS3X behavior and the one thing that can be said about the system is we all seem to experience it individually.
I don't love it, don't hate it either but I think it has its uses allowing lighter models to fly in wind, something it does well.

Flying the SU-26 with AS3X (20 grams lighter than the B3D at 55 g AUW) in 3-5 m/s wind was fun, mainly because it looked like a bad stop-motion animation.
But the model did what I wanted and went where I wanted, flawless.
Flying the Stryker on the same occasion I didn't even notice the wind.

So, I my opinion the UM Stryker doesn't need AS3X and let's just leave it at that, ok?

And if you really want it you could always drop a MiG brick in the Stryker and add a mixer to get elevon control.
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Old Nov 11, 2012, 11:31 AM
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I R Irv's Avatar
United States, IL, Washington
Joined Nov 2008
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I've posted this before in hopes that someone would try it, I would if I had the B3D brick.
TODD
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showp...&postcount=726
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Old Nov 11, 2012, 11:42 AM
Power Wheels Guru
UNGN's Avatar
Southlake, TX
Joined Jan 2008
7,327 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by I R Irv View Post
I've posted this before in hopes that someone would try it, I would if I had the B3D brick.
TODD
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showp...&postcount=726
That won't work. The Gyros are trying to control 2 Axes that the Servos have no effect on and on the 3rd axis, pitch, its only working on one side, so induces roll there is no aileron servo to counteract. Dumb.

Don't do that. It doesn't work. The AS3X is doing NOTHING good.

If he was smart, he'd make outboard ailerons (with an external servo) and inboard elevators (with the elevator servo) or better yet, trade the brick for a V1 Beast brick.
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Old Nov 11, 2012, 11:53 AM
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I R Irv's Avatar
United States, IL, Washington
Joined Nov 2008
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Quote:
Originally Posted by UNGN View Post
That won't work. The Gyros are trying to control 2 Axes that the Servos have no effect on and on the 3rd axis, pitch, its only working on one side, so induces roll there is no aileron servo to counteract. Dumb.

Don't do that. It doesn't work. The AS3X is doing NOTHING good.

If he was smart, he'd make outboard ailerons (with an external servo) and inboard elevators (with the elevator servo) or better yet, trade the brick for a V1 Beast brick.
That's what I thought also, but how many times have we figured things out that Horizon didn't let us know or was clueless about. You never know until you try it it just might work. I seriously doubt it would work but I would give it a shot. Got an extra brick you'ld like to send me
TODD
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Old Nov 11, 2012, 12:34 PM
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UNGN's Avatar
Southlake, TX
Joined Jan 2008
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Quote:
Originally Posted by I R Irv View Post
Got an extra brick you'ld like to send me
TODD
No, but I'll trade non AS3X brick for AS3X bricks all day. Elevon planes are really the only ones that won't benefit from AS3X.

I'm sure lots of V1 Beast or Sbach people would make that swap, too.
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Old Nov 11, 2012, 01:57 PM
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airpower's Avatar
Joined May 2007
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Pouncer,
Ill say this, it might be best if the micro stryker has a very passive AS3X, thats not as effective as other AS3X planes, but still there to make everything a little bit better.
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Old Nov 11, 2012, 02:11 PM
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Joined Sep 2010
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I find that the um stryker handles wind about as well as any of my as3x planes, so can't see the need for it on the stryker. It's fine just as it is.
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Old Nov 11, 2012, 02:13 PM
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United Kingdom, Yeadon
Joined Mar 2007
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Me too!
I prefer non AS3X most of the time anyways, I guess I'm just a control freak
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Old Nov 11, 2012, 02:47 PM
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UNGN's Avatar
Southlake, TX
Joined Jan 2008
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Where AS3X could potentially benefit is if the CG was moved back to the point of boarderline instability.... far enough back that the stryker without AS3X would suck in the wind (obviously no one is currently flying their stryker in this condition)... but with AS3X would still be flyable.

People would really like the crazy stuff the stryker could do in this case... stuff a lot crazier than what it can do, now, with a forward CG.

If a plane is stable in 20 mph winds, it doesn't need AS3X... Move the CG back and it won't be stable in 20 mph winds without gyros.

The CG on my AS3X Sbach is at a point where flights would last about 4 seconds in the calm without AS3X, but I fly it in 15 mph winds.
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Old Nov 11, 2012, 02:54 PM
You can't take the sky from me
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United States, OH, Cincinnati
Joined Aug 2011
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It would be interesting to try on the big stryker with one of those 3 axis gyros.
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Old Nov 11, 2012, 03:32 PM
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brushless55's Avatar
United States, CO, Longmont
Joined Nov 2011
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SilentPilot View Post
Me too!
I prefer non AS3X most of the time anyways, I guess I'm just a control freak
your not the only one bro!

now lets get back to the OP of this thread and lets see more hopups and videos
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Old Nov 11, 2012, 06:33 PM
ICrashRCs
United States, TN, Memphis
Joined Jun 2011
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$92
http://www.wholesaletrains.com/Detai...p?ID=200864905

Last month I thought a used one for $80
with a repaired nose was a good deal, lol.
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Old Nov 11, 2012, 06:43 PM
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United States, CO, Longmont
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How much is shipping?
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Old Nov 11, 2012, 09:00 PM
Got more toys than my kid
macr0t0r's Avatar
USA, CA, Fremont
Joined Sep 2004
3,676 Posts
Change of subject:

So, I've been spending waaaay too much time messing around with control mixes on my Micro Stryker. I have a DX8 and have been concerned that if I dial in the amount of pitch and roll that I want, then I'll overdrive the servos when I corner the stick (for an inverted flat-spin or other maneuver). I can actually hear the servo's whine jump louder when I exceed the the limits. I checked some of the Parkzone manuals and saw this text pertaining to those linear servos:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Parkzone
DO NOT SET YOUR TRANSMITTER ATV OVER 100%. If the ATV is set over 100% it will not result in more control movement, and it will overdrive the servo and cause damage.
Unfortunately, the DX8 does not have "absolute limits" to prevent this from happening with the elevon mix. You have to have the DX10t or te DX18 for that feature.

But, the helicopter programming DOES have an "E-Ring" feature that prevents servos on a swashplate from overdriving when you corner the sticks! So, my Stryker thinks it's a heli now! I set it for 135deg swashplate control. Then I opened the Stryker and moved the elevator servo to the pitch channel. In the Swash control, I zeroed out the collective so that nothing changes when I move the throttle stick, but I was now able to adjust the roll and pitch throws so that I can have nearly max elevator and roll, yet if I corner the sticks, they do not go beyond 115% (the limit of the linear servos). Perfect!

Since I had it open, I removed the Y-split adapter and connected one rudder servo directly to the rudder channel, and then connected the other rudder servo to the Ch5/Xport channel. Spent a little time mixing Aux2 with those two channels, and I now have split-rudder control! My rudders now move twice as far to the outside as inside, and I now use the flap switch to enable two levels of "split-rudder" air brakes.

Wish me luck, gents. This should be a wild test-flight on Wednesday! If all goes as planned, I'll post my DX8 SPM file.

- Jim
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