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Old Feb 11, 2012, 11:39 AM
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This thread has made a very interesting turn!
and its sweet.. than you for this info!!
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Old Feb 11, 2012, 03:37 PM
Southern Pride
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Haralson County GA. USA
Joined Oct 2004
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Quote:
Can you confirm this?
I am far from being an EE and up on all of the MOFETS however there are a bunch of very smart minds over in the DIY Electronics Forum..

Many if not all of the MOFETS are not designed to be to used in such configurations but no the less many have in fact staked them on BL ESC with good results. Like I said power handling does not double but I believe 50% increase is about right.

Charles
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Old Feb 11, 2012, 03:42 PM
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United States, CA, Sebastopol
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Originally Posted by everydayflyer View Post
Like I said power handling does not double but I believe 50% increase is about right.

Charles
And a 50% increase would be perfect!
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Old Feb 11, 2012, 03:43 PM
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United States, CO, Longmont
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Quote:
Originally Posted by everydayflyer View Post
I am far from being an EE and up on all of the MOFETS however there are a bunch of very smart minds over in the DIY Electronics Forum..

Many if not all of the MOFETS are not designed to be to used in such configurations but no the less many have in fact staked them on BL ESC with good results. Like I said power handling does not double but I believe 50% increase is about right.
Charles
That is awesome.. adding even 25% is good!
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Old Feb 11, 2012, 04:14 PM
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Berkley, MI
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Quote:
Originally Posted by everydayflyer View Post
I am far from being an EE and up on all of the MOFETS however there are a bunch of very smart minds over in the DIY Electronics Forum..

Many if not all of the MOFETS are not designed to be to used in such configurations but no the less many have in fact staked them on BL ESC with good results. Like I said power handling does not double but I believe 50% increase is about right.

Charles
Charles,

Thanks for the reply. I'll dig into this and take a visit to the DIY Electronics forum. I just want to be close to 100% certainty I won't smoke the board. Others....feel free to add what you find. :-)

I looked at my UM Stryker board and it has 4606 BA1F1E inscribed on the mosfets. Based on the Manufacters symbol it is an Alpha Omega Semiconductor. The continuous current rating is 6 amps at 25C and 5 amps at 70C.

http://www.aosmd.com/pdfs/datasheet/AO4606.pdf

These mosfets are easy to get to. If this mod is possible, I'll be using conductive epoxy to secure the secondary mosfets on top of the existing mosfets. This hopefully ensures good heat transfer.

Updates on References:

This is a real good video showing how a mosfet works. In the 6400NBL we have IC's that contain 4 fets inside.

Transistor / MOSFET tutorial (4 min 50 sec)


http://www.mini-z-guide.com/mosfet.htm

http://www.rctech.net/forum/electric...e-current.html

http://www.fairchildsemi.com/product.../soic8_dim.pdf

http://aosmd.com/pdfs/datasheet/AO4616.pdf

http://www.mini-z-guide.com/FETInstall.htm

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MOSFET

http://www.mcmanis.com/chuck/robotic...rial/h-bridge/

http://trebor69.tripod.com/speedcnt.html

http://www.ti.com/tool/rdk-bldc#Technical Documents

http://www.societyofrobots.com/elect...tutorial.shtml

http://www.societyofrobots.com/schem...ridgedes.shtml

http://www.avrfreaks.net/modules/Fre...ng%20Guide.pdf "Low cost SMD Soldering guide"

http://www.mcmanis.com/chuck/robotic...FET-power.html

http://www.atmel.com/Images/doc8012.pdf Sensorless control of 3-phase brushless DC motors

Digi-key does not list the AO4606. I'm thinking the 4616 is the newest version.
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Last edited by Silverexpress; Feb 19, 2012 at 01:06 PM. Reason: Updates on info I found and digested
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Old Feb 11, 2012, 04:19 PM
Bye Bye VP Aug 2010 - Aug 2012
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United Kingdom, London
Joined Jan 2005
5,939 Posts
Leading Edge Repair

Snapped one of the points of the leading edge today. Here are some picks of the repair I made with Gorilla Glue, a modelling pin and a blue marker pen, sorry the pictures are a bit blurred:



[IMG][/IMG]


[IMG][/IMG]


[IMG][/IMG]

[IMG][/IMG]

[IMG][/IMG]
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Old Feb 11, 2012, 04:28 PM
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Berkley, MI
Joined Dec 2009
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brushless55 View Post
That is awesome.. adding even 25% is good!
These things are under a $1 usd. Lol. Cheapest bang for the buck if it works. It'll allow us to use higher KV or bigger lower KV motors, and increased pitch and or diameter props.

Update: PLD seems to be our man. I've emailed him some questions on doing this. Let's hope he responds back.

Update: PLD stated it was ok. Order for AO4616's on the way. I'll stack the as3x board and replace the AO4606's on the 6400nbl (to stay on topic here ;-) ). Thanks for the reply PLD.
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/member.php?u=24181

Also, thanks to everydayflyer (Charles) for mentioning this.

Update:
I've been reading about DIY ESC's, and came upon TI's RDK-BLDC development esc board. A quick glance at the technical manual and I came upon programmable features for the esc microcontroller. On the TI RDK, the following parameters can be set to shut the motor down:

1. Over current
2. Under current
3. DC over voltage
4. DC under voltage
5. Over temp
6. Motor stall

The one that can prevent any benefit to this mod would be #1 above. If this value is set to protect the AO4606, an upgrade to the AO4616 or even stacking will be of no use. We will have to just give it a try and see.

I don't know if the microcontroller on the 6400nbl and AS3X have the above parameters. The BL controller chip has had its P/N and make scratched off by the manufacturer on both the 6400nbl and the AS3X, and thus I cannot research what features it has. If anyone knows what it is, let me know. After looking at a few ESC projects on the internet, not all have the same set of parameters.
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Old Feb 12, 2012, 10:33 PM
Flyin' Ryan
USA, MO, Lee's Summit
Joined Sep 2001
980 Posts
Does anyone know of an airframe to put some mini stryker electronics into. I flew my stryker through a tree, and pretty much destroyed it. I was hoping to find a jet cat style foam design and transfer the electronics over. The stryker was great fun, but replacement parts seem to be a bit over priced.
Thanks, Ryan
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Old Feb 12, 2012, 10:41 PM
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Berkley, MI
Joined Dec 2009
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rycomm View Post
Does anyone know of an airframe to put some mini stryker electronics into. I flew my stryker through a tree, and pretty much destroyed it. I was hoping to find a jet cat style foam design and transfer the electronics over. The stryker was great fun, but replacement parts seem to be a bit over priced.
Thanks, Ryan
You might want to check here:

http://m.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=851608
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Old Feb 12, 2012, 11:02 PM
Free crash course available!!!
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United States, NJ, Mahwah
Joined Oct 2011
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rycomm View Post
Does anyone know of an airframe to put some mini stryker electronics into. I flew my stryker through a tree, and pretty much destroyed it. I was hoping to find a jet cat style foam design and transfer the electronics over. The stryker was great fun, but replacement parts seem to be a bit over priced.
Thanks, Ryan
If you want to go balsa..here the link to an awesome balsa Stryker..I am planning to build one...

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1263134
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Old Feb 13, 2012, 10:15 AM
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United States, CO, Longmont
Joined Nov 2011
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Silverexpress View Post
Charles,

Thanks for the reply. I'll dig into this and take a visit to the DIY Electronics forum. I just want to be close to 100% certainty I won't smoke the board. Others....feel free to add what you find. :-)

I looked at my UM Stryker board and it has 4606 BA1F1E inscribed on the mosfets. Based on the Manufacters symbol it is an Alpha Omega Semiconductor. The continuous current rating is 6 amps at 25C and 5 amps at 70C.

http://www.aosmd.com/pdfs/datasheet/AO4606.pdf

These mosfets are easy to get to. If this mod is possible, I'll be using Artic Silver 5 to epoxy the secondary mosfets on top of the existing mosfets. This hopefully ensures good heat transfer.

Updates on References:
http://www.mini-z-guide.com/mosfet.htm

http://www.rctech.net/forum/electric...e-current.html

http://www.fairchildsemi.com/product.../soic8_dim.pdf

http://aosmd.com/pdfs/datasheet/AO4616.pdf

http://www.mini-z-guide.com/FETInstall.htm

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MOSFET

http://www.mcmanis.com/chuck/robotic...rial/h-bridge/

http://www.ti.com/tool/rdk-bldc#Technical Documents

http://www.avrfreaks.net/modules/Fre...ng%20Guide.pdf "Low cost SMD Soldering guide"

Digi-key does not list the AO4606. I'm thinking the 4616 is the newest version.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Silverexpress View Post
These things are under a $1 usd. Lol. Cheapest bang for the buck if it works. It'll allow us to use higher KV or bigger lower KV motors, and increased pitch and or diameter props.

Update: PLD seems to be our man. I've emailed him some questions on doing this. Let's hope he responds back.

Update: PLD stated it was ok. Order for AO4616's on the way. I'll stack the as3x board and replace the AO4606's on the 6400nbl (to stay on topic here ;-) ). Thanks for the reply PLD.
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/member.php?u=24181

Also, thanks to everydayflyer (Charles) for mentioning this.

Update:
I've been reading about DIY ESC's, and came upon TI's RDK-BLDC development esc board. A quick glance at the technical manual and I came upon programmable features for the esc microcontroller. On the TI RDK, the following parameters can be set to shut the motor down:

1. Over current
2. Under current
3. DC over voltage
4. DC under voltage
5. Over temp
6. Motor stall

The one that can prevent any benefit to this mod would be #1 above. If this value is set to protect the AO4606, an upgrade to the AO4616 or even stacking will be of no use. We will have to just give it a try and see.

I don't know if the microcontroller on the 6400nbl and AS3X have the above parameters. The BL controller chip has had its P/N and make scratched off by the manufacturer on both the 6400nbl and the AS3X, and thus I cannot research what features it has. If anyone knows what it is, let me know. After looking at a few ESC projects on the internet, not all have the same set of parameters.
Awesome stuff man!
thank you for posting more info
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Old Feb 13, 2012, 11:07 AM
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Berkley, MI
Joined Dec 2009
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brushless55 View Post
Awesome stuff man!
thank you for posting more info
I find this real fun. Thanks. Having dealt with microcontrollers first hand in other applications I knew that the actual function of OCP, under voltage, over voltage...etc...had to be performed by something else. Googling OCP, I found this

http://www.national.com/news/item/0,1735,550,00.html

Just an example of ic's that provide these functions. The processor does nothing more than collect and act upon the information passed on to it from these chips.

I'll take a gander at the 6400nbl again tonight. I could have sworn there was an LMxxxx chip on it :-(

Update: On the back of the AS3X is a bank of resistors :-( these can also be used for monitoring current.

FYI: I'm not trying to reverse engineer these boards. Just looking to see if additional fets or possibly better fets can be used.

Update: Here is a reference on using resistors for current sensing:

http://www.ti.com/analog/docs/micros...=7&familyId=57

I need a closer inspection of the AS3X board to see if the traces connect the bank of resistors in parallel/series. If so then a real good possibility that this is what is being used for OCP sensing. You can see the bank of resistors in the upper right of this picture I posted a while back.

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showp...&postcount=532

Next question is "what is OCP really being used for?". What is it protecting?

HH stated that it was a the tolerance of a few components that's causing the OCP issue in the GEE BEE. Could these be the bank of resistors???
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Old Feb 13, 2012, 12:12 PM
Can we lift the embargo?
kenstogie's Avatar
menands flats, NY
Joined Dec 2006
1,614 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by FlyinCowboy View Post
Can't snooze behind the controls. Dang.
Did the same, and I used toothpicks and gorilla glue, good as new.
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Old Feb 13, 2012, 01:00 PM
**I'm Battman**
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Twin Falls, Idaho
Joined Jan 2005
8,569 Posts
UPS tracking shows that my new board will arrive on Thurs.

I've been having a (3S) blast with my Beast 3D. (Aprox 20 flights now)
Peak charging to 4.0V per cell is working well.
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showp...ostcount=13887

I'll be flying the Stryker/4040 combo on 3S asap!



rc
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Old Feb 13, 2012, 01:46 PM
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Berkley, MI
Joined Dec 2009
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RCBABBEL View Post
UPS tracking shows that my new board will arrive on Thurs.

I've been having a (3S) blast with my Beast 3D. (Aprox 20 flights now)
Peak charging to 4.0V per cell is working well.
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showp...ostcount=13887

I'll be flying the Stryker/4040 combo on 3S asap!



rc
Hello RCB,

What did you burnout on your board with 3s? What's the highest current draw you've seen? I'm trying to get an idea of what amps OCP gets triggered.

Nevermind: Find your prior post regarding what blew. It's the middle mosfet. Did you get a max current reading? If the max is well above 5 amps, than that means OCP get's triggered well beyond and we may actually benefit from stacking the fets (if we can find a source for AO4606)'s or replacing them with the AO4616 fets from the Beast 3D AS3X board.
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