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Old Nov 08, 2012, 09:45 AM
Extremely Twisted
cwojcik's Avatar
United States, NH, Epping
Joined Oct 2005
2,628 Posts
I flew my Extra on 5S the other day. I'm running a 800 KV motor so I had to prop down to a 14x7 for about 92 amps and 1800 watts. It was fast and sounded cool but the loss in efficiency and the small prop disc really hurt 3D and roll rate at low speed.

I went back to 4S with an Aeronaut 15x8 prop and those things are awesome...speed was about the same as the 14x7 but the pull at low throttle settings and low speed was a bit better. Quieter and lighter as well.
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Old Nov 08, 2012, 04:51 PM
Aer0bat
United States, CA, Laguna Hills
Joined Sep 2011
19 Posts
Hi Everyone,

I recently received my 60 Extra and am in the process of building. Not entirely new to the hobby, but relatively new to a build like this one. I've been doing a lot of research on the forum and had a couple of questions hoping I could get some answers to.

First, when installing the control horns on the ailerons, how closely aligned to they need to be? At full deflection, one horn stopped just shy of touching the wing panel, the other bottomed out into the wing panel. interestingly, I measured full deflection on both wings, and the wing where the horn bottomed out had 5mm less travel. Why would this be? Am I understanding "alignment" correctly? They have been epoxied in so they are what they are, but I'm trying to understand exactly what I'm supposed to be paying attention to and what effect the difference will have.

Second, I have been searching on prop sizes and I see contradictions, or maybe I'm just not understanding the responses. Ultimately, I'm interested in what size prop is going to work the best on a 6s 3300mAh battery, ICE Lite 75, and Torque V2 setup. I don't like to go super fast, rather am working on learning slower 3D and pattern flying. If anyone has any suggestions on brand, that would also be welcomed.

Thanks!
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Old Nov 08, 2012, 05:56 PM
TEAM EXTREME FLIGHT
Doc Austin's Avatar
USA, FL, Largo
Joined Dec 2005
16,427 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by agent3mc View Post
interestingly, I measured full deflection on both wings, and the wing where the horn bottomed out had 5mm less travel.
You don't need anywhere near that amoint of travel. I run 33 degrees on mine and that's all I can keep up with. This plane has a wicked roll rate.


Quote:
Why would this be? Am I understanding "alignment" correctly? They have been epoxied in so they are what they are, but I'm trying to understand exactly what I'm supposed to be paying attention to and what effect the difference will have.
Set them up l;ike the maunal says, and if you have to dial in some differential to get them the same, that's in your radio programming.

Quote:
Ultimately, I'm interested in what size prop is going to work the best on a 6s 3300mAh battery, ICE Lite 75, and Torque V2 setup.
I run a Xoar 16/8 on mine but don't try that with an APC. It draws too many amps.

Be prepared for blistering speed with the Mk II motor. Those things are just bad ass.

Quote:
If anyone has any suggestions on brand, that would also be welcomed.
I hear good things about Falcon, and I have one in the trunk of my car in case I need it. Herc and Ducati Tim have been running a carbon prop too, but the name of it escapes me right now. Maybe they will see your post and speak up.
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Old Nov 08, 2012, 06:23 PM
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jlloyd1995's Avatar
United States, OR, Molalla
Joined Oct 2010
460 Posts
I run the Xoar 15x7 and really like it. I temporarily switched to a Falcon 15x7 and it seemed exactly the same in 3D and precision as the Xoar.
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Old Nov 08, 2012, 07:34 PM
aka ECAA3D
m0dest's Avatar
United States, WA, Olympia
Joined Apr 2012
1,145 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by cwojcik View Post
I flew my Extra on 5S the other day. I'm running a 800 KV motor so I had to prop down to a 14x7 for about 92 amps and 1800 watts. It was fast and sounded cool but the loss in efficiency and the small prop disc really hurt 3D and roll rate at low speed.

I went back to 4S with an Aeronaut 15x8 prop and those things are awesome...speed was about the same as the 14x7 but the pull at low throttle settings and low speed was a bit better. Quieter and lighter as well.
I've done a bit of preaching and happily running an Aeronaut 16x8 on 5s Hacker setup. It's a much better prop in terms of 3d then a Xoar equivalent. The Aeronauts profile on the blade is wider. I noticed the performance gain right away, hovers were immediately more locked in...however it changed the sweetspot on KE spins.
Feels like KE spins are tighter as well.

I only lost about 30seconds flight time from what I can tell.
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Old Nov 08, 2012, 07:57 PM
Wherever you go there you are
7oneWo1f's Avatar
United States, MN, Minneapolis
Joined Nov 2011
8,347 Posts
agent3mc, what servos are you using? If the holes in the control surface horn aren't exactly over the hinge line, you may end up with differential.

One thing I have been doing is waiting to epoxy the control horns in until after I have the surfaces hinged. Then I can sand/file the control horn to get the hole centered over the hinge line. However, the last time I did this, on the 64" MXS, every control surface was dead on, and I didn't need to file/sand. In any event, if you have already epoxied them on, you have some options. As Doc said, you can dial some differential to negate the mechanical differential. Another option is, if you have some paitence, is to not put the control arm on the servo at 90 degrees, but experiment with putting it at different spots. Another option, if you have programmable digital servos (e.g., the HS5245mg), get the HPP-21 servo programmer and program up different end points.

I do believe, but have not yet verified, that by adjusting the servo arm angle on the servo, that misalignment of the control arm hole over the hinge can at least be mitigated.

In the end, depending on the type of flying you do, you may want to add some differential to optimize axial rolls. Again, I haven't done this either (mostly because my Extreme Flight planes roll so nice), but from what I understand, aileron differential can help in general.

Hopefully, I've provided enough ideas for you to do some searches and find out answers from people more expert and experienced.
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Old Nov 08, 2012, 08:03 PM
EXTREME FLIGHT's Avatar
United States, GA, Cumming
Joined Feb 2004
2,302 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by agent3mc View Post
Hi Everyone,

I recently received my 60 Extra and am in the process of building. Not entirely new to the hobby, but relatively new to a build like this one. I've been doing a lot of research on the forum and had a couple of questions hoping I could get some answers to.

First, when installing the control horns on the ailerons, how closely aligned to they need to be? At full deflection, one horn stopped just shy of touching the wing panel, the other bottomed out into the wing panel. interestingly, I measured full deflection on both wings, and the wing where the horn bottomed out had 5mm less travel. Why would this be? Am I understanding "alignment" correctly? They have been epoxied in so they are what they are, but I'm trying to understand exactly what I'm supposed to be paying attention to and what effect the difference will have.

Second, I have been searching on prop sizes and I see contradictions, or maybe I'm just not understanding the responses. Ultimately, I'm interested in what size prop is going to work the best on a 6s 3300mAh battery, ICE Lite 75, and Torque V2 setup. I don't like to go super fast, rather am working on learning slower 3D and pattern flying. If anyone has any suggestions on brand, that would also be welcomed.

Thanks!
Use the travel adjust feature in your transmitter to make the aileron travel equal in both directions. 30-35 degress of travel will allow the Extra to roll faster than you will be able to keep up with. I'd suggest a XOAR 16x7 electric prop for best performance without taxing the system too much.
If you experience any wobble in the roll (tested in a power off dive) use the differential function to add a degree or two more up aileron travel than down.
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Old Nov 10, 2012, 09:08 PM
Hardcore EP 3D Flyer
VR Eyedoc's Avatar
Canada, ON, Toronto
Joined Aug 2012
511 Posts
The second flying day of my newly built EF 60" Extra300, flew 7 packs in calm condition. All I can say is WoW! this plane flys like simulator! precise, stable and agile! but I am still not 100% sure if I set the CG and trim properly. I placed the 6S 2650 pack aligned with the cowl, and the elevator centred at neutral position(aligned with horizontal stablizer. ) for the first flight,
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Old Nov 10, 2012, 09:45 PM
aka ECAA3D
m0dest's Avatar
United States, WA, Olympia
Joined Apr 2012
1,145 Posts
Just lay it over and see how it tracks. I find I get the best all around performance slightly nose heavy with just a slight push on down elevator while inverted. This makes for clean lines and tumbles better as well.
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Old Nov 10, 2012, 10:44 PM
Wherever you go there you are
7oneWo1f's Avatar
United States, MN, Minneapolis
Joined Nov 2011
8,347 Posts
6S 2650 is probably very light, what kind of flight times do you expect? Just be careful, as you get used to it you'll probably burn the watthours faster.
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Old Nov 11, 2012, 08:46 AM
Hardcore EP 3D Flyer
VR Eyedoc's Avatar
Canada, ON, Toronto
Joined Aug 2012
511 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by VR Eyedoc View Post
The second flying day of my newly built EF 60" Extra300, flew 7 packs in calm condition. All I can say is WoW! this plane flys like simulator! precise, stable and agile! but I am still not 100% sure if I set the CG and trim properly. I placed the 6S 2650 pack aligned with the cowl, and the elevator centred at neutral position(aligned with horizontal stablizer. ) for the first flight,
let me complete my message, I placed the 6S 2650 pack aligned with the cowl, and the elevator centred at neutral position(aligned with horizontal stablizer. ) for the first flight, the planes dive hands off, needing some down elevator trim to fly level. I thought that indicated nose heavy, so I move the pack further back then reset the elevator aligned with horizontal stablizer, again it dived and needed some down elevator trim. I adjusted a couple of time and no matter where I place my pack, the plane just wouldn't fly level with neutral elevator.

I end up placing the pack 1/2 inch back from cowl, with down elevator deflected for about 5mm at the leading edge. it seemd to fly well with this configuration,it track well, hands off level fly at mid and high speed, hands off inverted fly, no KE coupling.

I was happy with the flying performance but my questions are: is the airplane supposed to fly level with neutral elevator if CG is correct? does my configuration mean it still nose heavy (which is unlikely, becuase I used very light packs)?

my flying time is 5 and a half minutes with 6S 2650, 5 minutes with 6S 2200. I use turnigy Sk3 5045 450kv + xoar 16 X 8
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Old Nov 11, 2012, 09:24 AM
Registered User
morrigan's Avatar
Deutschland, BW, Ebersbach an der Fils
Joined May 2011
338 Posts
Hi,

i think your picture show up elevator.

Bernd
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Old Nov 12, 2012, 01:48 PM
Aer0bat
United States, CA, Laguna Hills
Joined Sep 2011
19 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by LoneWolfRC View Post
agent3mc, what servos are you using? If the holes in the control surface horn aren't exactly over the hinge line, you may end up with differential.

. . . As Doc said, you can dial some differential to negate the mechanical differential. Another option is, if you have some paitence, is to not put the control arm on the servo at 90 degrees, but experiment with putting it at different spots. Another option, if you have programmable digital servos (e.g., the HS5245mg), get the HPP-21 servo programmer and program up different end points.

I do believe, but have not yet verified, that by adjusting the servo arm angle on the servo, that misalignment of the control arm hole over the hinge can at least be mitigated.
Doc/LoneWolf, thanks for the feedback. I looked at the horns vs hinge line and they look spot on. one might be just slightly forward of the hinge line, but its barely perceptible. I have used the radio settings to even out travel on other aircraft,so if what we are talking about is really achieving equal travel on both ailerons, hole alignment notwithstanding, then I can accomplish that. I am using recommended HS-5245 servos, and I do have the Hi-Tec HPP-21 programmer. That combined with radio settings, I will definitely be able to get equal travel.

I did hinge the surfaces before installing the horns, but in the future, I'll pay closer attention to the alignment and modify the horns if needed as you suggested.

Quote:
Originally Posted by EXTREME FLIGHT View Post
. . . I'd suggest a XOAR 16x7 electric prop for best performance without taxing the system too much.
If you experience any wobble in the roll (tested in a power off dive) use the differential function to add a degree or two more up aileron travel than down.
EF, thank you, I picked up a Xoar 15x8, but I'll order a Xoar 16x7 and give it a try. I see people talking about carbon props. Any feedback on this, in the same 16x7 size? Overpowered, more efficient, more control, etc.?

As you and LoneWolf noted, I'll experiment with aileron differential if needed to achieve a nice clean roll.

Thanks for the help all, really appreciate it!
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Old Nov 14, 2012, 06:21 PM
OOPS
Manta1's Avatar
USA, GA, Cochran
Joined Jun 2008
20,153 Posts
Agent, plastic/APC=good,
wood=better
carbon=best as far as props go. They also are priced accordingly.
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Old Nov 14, 2012, 06:40 PM
Wherever you go there you are
7oneWo1f's Avatar
United States, MN, Minneapolis
Joined Nov 2011
8,347 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Manta1 View Post
Agent, plastic/APC=good,
wood=better
carbon=best as far as props go. They also are priced accordingly.
I just flew a 12x6 CF prop on a 48" MXS...not the best in my opinion. Xoar was better. I was surprised, and expected to be at least as good. I suspect they got the pitch marked wrong. Says 12x6, but didn't fly as well as other 12x6 props I've used.
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