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Old Oct 21, 2001, 12:06 PM
El Queso Grande
Rippin in Hood River, OR, USA
Joined Oct 2000
1,141 Posts
Sure to start a fight, abandoning the Mac.

I've used a Mac since 1993 and have been one of those fanatics that everyone likes to make so much fun of. My current machine is over 5 years old and needs to be replaced with a new one. It can still do most tasks but cannot use some new software that I want to get. Looking over the current Mac offerings and prices and looking at OS X I've come to the conclusion it is time to switch.

Pricing: Macs are (and have always been, but it used to be justifiable) too expensive. The current hardware is great but I can get a WinTel equivilant for 700.00 less.

OS X: This is the real reason I'm switching. What a disaster it is. What was Apple thinking when they broke every Mac rule with this new OS? At a time when Windows XP eliminates Dos (finally!) out comes the Mac with Unix and a stupid dot prompt that you HAVE to use for some functions.

Software: The last three programs I've wanted to get are not available on the Mac.

So I'm gonna switch. Anyone have a suggested system? Any real benefit to a PIV over an AMD Athlon? Any downside to the GeForce 2 graphics card?
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Old Oct 21, 2001, 12:49 PM
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mtayl's Avatar
Boulder, CO USA
Joined Sep 2001
1,405 Posts
I was tempted to not respond as this could start a major war, but I was at least as going to point you to two good resources,
Anandtech and Tomshardware although they are more for the 'tweakin geeks than your normal user.

I purchase about 200 PC's a year as part of my job, but for a home computer and support, the best bet is probably a Dell (now that should start some good arguments ) I don't buy Dell for my work systems for other reasons.

A GeForce2 card (64MB) is an outstanding game card. Save your money and don't get a GeForce3 unless you absolutely need the fastest card. Feel free to email me if you want some more info.

Oh yea, if you want the fastest for the cheapest go for AMD. If you want to move massive amounts of data very quickly then I would lean more towards the P4 with RDRAM. I think Dell only ships the P4 these days. You might check out this page at Dell
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Last edited by mtayl; Oct 21, 2001 at 12:55 PM.
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Old Oct 21, 2001, 01:46 PM
El Queso Grande
Rippin in Hood River, OR, USA
Joined Oct 2000
1,141 Posts
Thanks for the response. I know a fair amount about PCs since I used to do support for our company so Dell's service is really less of a concern for me than most users who switch from a Mac. I saw a review of the GeForce 3 and don't think I need the few extra features that it provides for that steep price. Sure, if I were a real Unreal or Quake fanatic it'd be worth it, but I'm not.

How much does the DDR RAM for AMD even the score with RAMBUS for Intel? I don't think I'm going to do the kind of data crunching that would need a PIV and some of the reviews I've seen suggest the AMD is a little faster than the PIV at some intensive tasks (Photoshop was the test program I saw).
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Old Oct 21, 2001, 02:29 PM
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Boulder, CO USA
Joined Sep 2001
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Personally, I would stay away from RDRAM. It's still unclear in the marketplace what is going to happen with the lawsuits. When I have bought personal PC's for people (such as a Dell for my mother), I always buy the least amount of memory that the vendor will sell to me. I then go to Crucial and get as much as I can. Crucial always has the lowest price and it is really Micron memory which historically has been the best. Crucial has a nice configurator to help pick the right memory for your system. I just checked and you can get 256MB of DDR memory for $33!!! Holy smokes. Time to order some more and stash it away

There are people who hate the AMD's, but I love them. The price versus performance still outperforms Intel. It sounds like you would have no problem building your own and you might consider either finding a complete AMD system or grabbing a motherboard, case and disk and putting it together yourself. Very simple to do these days as most components have been standardized. I believe Micron stills sells AMD systems although I just checked and couldn't find one on thier web page.

By all means, stay away from Microsoft Millenium. Either go for Windows 2000 Pro or WinXP (which is basically the same as Win2K as far as the NT 5.0 kernel goes). After countless failures with Win98 and Millenium, Win2K was a pleasant surprise. I'm an old UNIX hack and generally hate Microsoft just on principle, but Win2K has been amazingly stable for an MS operating system anyways.

In summary, you can't really go wrong these days regardless of what you choose. Either Dell or MicronPC is a good safe bet. Those two will be slugging it out far into the future. All the other vendors (gateway, compaq, etc) will be hurting here soon. If you get a P4 versus an AMD, either one will probably work equally well. It almost comes down to how much time do you want to spend tweaking the system versus the time spent actually purchasing it and using it.

If I find a good AMD system, I'll post some info.
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Old Oct 21, 2001, 03:52 PM
DNA
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DNA's Avatar
NE Ohio
Joined Jun 2001
3,311 Posts
If you are more budget minded, you can get some really
good deals on computers at ubid.com. I've bought a lot of
things from them including a big screen TV and have never
had any problems.

http://www.ubid.com/cat/get_cat_page...tID=1000&#3000
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Old Oct 21, 2001, 05:47 PM
NaTaLiEs aLL mInE
phreak's Avatar
Springfield, Queensland, Australia
Joined Aug 2001
170 Posts
Re: Sure to start a fight, abandoning the Mac.

Quote:
Originally posted by windsurfer
I've used a Mac since 1993 and have been one of those fanatics that everyone likes to make so much fun of. My current machine is over 5 years old and needs to be replaced with a new one. It can still do most tasks but cannot use some new software that I want to get. Looking over the current Mac offerings and prices and looking at OS X I've come to the conclusion it is time to switch.

Pricing: Macs are (and have always been, but it used to be justifiable) too expensive. The current hardware is great but I can get a WinTel equivilant for 700.00 less.

OS X: This is the real reason I'm switching. What a disaster it is. What was Apple thinking when they broke every Mac rule with this new OS? At a time when Windows XP eliminates Dos (finally!) out comes the Mac with Unix and a stupid dot prompt that you HAVE to use for some functions.

Software: The last three programs I've wanted to get are not available on the Mac.

So I'm gonna switch. Anyone have a suggested system? Any real benefit to a PIV over an AMD Athlon? Any downside to the GeForce 2 graphics card?
Pricing: mac prices have come down ALOT in this last financial quarter. you can now buy a 500mhz G3 iMac with 64mb ram, 20gig hd, CD-RW, RAGE 128 Ultra w/ 16MB, 56k modem, with OSX for $999.

OSX: um, it was microsoft who brought out XP to keep up with apple. lots of developers are bringing out programs for apple now because of OSX. this is the best thing which ever happened to apple. i have noticed it with games mostly. its my heaven!

Software: should be coming on OSX. if it isnt, look for software which has the same functions. OSX.1 is coming out at the start of next month.

as u can tell i have a mac.
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Old Oct 21, 2001, 05:56 PM
tic
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New Cumberland, PA. US
Joined Dec 2000
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Hey what happened to People PC?....
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Old Oct 21, 2001, 06:30 PM
NaTaLiEs aLL mInE
phreak's Avatar
Springfield, Queensland, Australia
Joined Aug 2001
170 Posts
dont know dont care
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Old Oct 21, 2001, 07:05 PM
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mtayl's Avatar
Boulder, CO USA
Joined Sep 2001
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Thanks DNA, I forgot about ubid. I should poke around there more often. I don't know what happened to People PC. I haven't heard anything from them in a long time so I checked their web page and their prices weren't so hot. They wanted $1500 for a 1.3Ghz P4. Although they include Internet access as well so it might even out if you need help getting on the Internet.
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Old Oct 22, 2001, 02:36 PM
crashnburn
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windsurfer,

Why would anybody want to fight with a reasonable thinker like yourself????

Don
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Old Oct 22, 2001, 04:06 PM
characters welcome!
Mark Wood's Avatar
United States, CA, Bear Valley Springs
Joined Feb 2000
26,207 Posts
Quote:
Originally posted by crashnburn
windsurfer,

Why would anybody want to fight with a reasonable thinker like yourself????

Don
Sport?

mw
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Old Oct 23, 2001, 07:49 PM
El Queso Grande
Rippin in Hood River, OR, USA
Joined Oct 2000
1,141 Posts
Re: Re: Sure to start a fight, abandoning the Mac.

Quote:
Originally posted by phreak


Pricing: mac prices have come down ALOT in this last financial quarter. you can now buy a 500mhz G3 iMac with 64mb ram, 20gig hd, CD-RW, RAGE 128 Ultra w/ 16MB, 56k modem, with OSX for $999.

OSX: um, it was microsoft who brought out XP to keep up with apple. lots of developers are bringing out programs for apple now because of OSX. this is the best thing which ever happened to apple. i have noticed it with games mostly. its my heaven!

Software: should be coming on OSX. if it isnt, look for software which has the same functions. OSX.1 is coming out at the start of next month.

as u can tell i have a mac.
Granted that prices have come down, but I want a tower, not an iMac, and those prices HAVEN'T really come down. Unless you buy an older system, but why would I do that?

OSX: sorry to dissagree on this one, but XP has its roots in NT, which much predates OSX. M$ has planned that move since Windows 95 came out. Still, I don't really care for Windows but am willing to put up with it because I don't think X is any better. Sure it's heaven, but only considering stability and memory management. All the great things about the OS are gone. You can't move your stuff around like you used to (go ahead, move an app out of the applications folder and see the fun begin), system level changes require the use of the terminal (ala Windows 3.1), non OSX compatible programs have to run in thier own OS9 (now there's some stupidity), and the gizmos and wingdings zap the processor to death. No thank you. Time for Apple to go back to the drawing board and bring out a CONSUMER OSX instead of the geek version.

And lets not forget how Apple now charges you for the priveledge of beta testing and then charges you again for an "upgrade" to a working OS.

I, too, have a Mac. Just not for much longer. I consider this a sad thing, too, because I always LIKED my Mac. I like my savings account more.
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Old Oct 23, 2001, 11:23 PM
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USA, NC, Greenville
Joined Dec 1999
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MAC / Apple. No thanks, I'm not hungry.
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