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Old Jul 21, 2011, 07:24 AM
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United States, MA, Medfield
Joined Jul 2010
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Question
Progress of skills, what order to learn progressively hard manuvers?

I've looked a bit at some of the training videos on this forum. I have sport plane and a 3D plane (FF Freestyle) and can do basic acrobatics with them. I also just picked up Phoenix v3.0 simulator.

I'm looking for advice on a progression of skills. I can look at the training videos and practice hard stuff with the sim and stuff I won't crash with on the real planes. What I want advise is what to work on in what order. What to learn first, next, etc.

I don't seem good at hovering at all yet. Lately on the sim I've been practicing high-alpha rudder circles and knife-edge circles.

Tips?
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Old Jul 21, 2011, 10:11 AM
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central PA.
Joined Sep 2004
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first 3D maneuvers... elevators and elevators to harrier flight. straight harrier flight. harrier circles. flat harrier 8's. hovering by getting into a harrier and holding up and adding throttle.

practice practice practice


other regular maneuvers that will pay off in a big way down the road: knife edge, 4 point rolls, slow rolls.



...and when you get the hang of one way, you can try it all upside down with inverted harriers, etc.
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Old Jul 21, 2011, 10:41 AM
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I guess I also need a 3D-dictionary.

Is a harrier like a hover but only nose-high but not nose straight, like high-alpha flight almost standing still?

Is an elevator when you move up and down in a high-alpha flight?

If anyone can point me to a reference great. Sometimes it's good to read descriptions and not just watch video.

-l2t
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Old Jul 21, 2011, 10:57 AM
MT pockets
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United States, NJ, West Milford
Joined Feb 2004
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Scott Stoops book is a good reference. I'm typing this from my phone and don't have a link to post.
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Old Jul 21, 2011, 11:10 AM
3D, 1D at a time!
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United States, TX, Plano
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Originally Posted by doug6952 View Post
Scott Stoops book is a good reference. I'm typing this from my phone and don't have a link to post.
http://www.3dhobbyshop.com/Mastering...s_p_15685.html

Also, try bonedoc's 3d tutorials. Those should really help.
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Old Jul 21, 2011, 12:04 PM
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USA, AZ, Phoenix
Joined Apr 2010
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+1 for everything mentioned here. Here's the Bonedoc vids

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=904349
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Old Jul 21, 2011, 03:33 PM
Riley O'Brien
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Waverly, NE
Joined Jul 2008
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Quote:
Originally Posted by learn2turn View Post
I guess I also need a 3D-dictionary.

Is a harrier like a hover but only nose-high but not nose straight, like high-alpha flight almost standing still?

Is an elevator when you move up and down in a high-alpha flight?

If anyone can point me to a reference great. Sometimes it's good to read descriptions and not just watch video.

-l2t
Hover is nose straight up(more or less) harrier would be forward flight with the nose up(high alpha) basically flying with the nose up 45 degrees or more. Elevator is a harrier but dropping altitude.(in my opinion it is a bad name for the maneuver)

Don't worry so much about the order...one maneuver will open the door to others. Start with what the km said and go from there. Don't try to copy stick inputs(they are helpful to get the idea)...be sure to understand what inputs are needed and why...this helps speed up the learning and practicing gets much less boring/frustrating.
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Old Jul 21, 2011, 05:00 PM
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United States, NC, Hertford
Joined Oct 2007
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Quote:
Originally Posted by theKM View Post
first 3D maneuvers... elevators and elevators to harrier flight. straight harrier flight. harrier circles. flat harrier 8's. hovering by getting into a harrier and holding up and adding throttle.

practice practice practice


other regular maneuvers that will pay off in a big way down the road: knife edge, 4 point rolls, slow rolls.



...and when you get the hang of one way, you can try it all upside down with inverted harriers, etc.
4point rolls and slow rolls. Crap you maen I still have these thing to learn before i can progress any further Man I guess I need to go out and practice some more

Arron sweet vid of you flying the 103 in your front yard. AWESOME just AWESOME
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Old Jul 21, 2011, 07:40 PM
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USA, NH, Litchfield
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In my opinion, learn to 'FLY' the plane through the different maneuvers. Use Pheonix to learn ...and to start learning a new maneuver, slow the sim down (50% or so)...I forget where the setting is, but it's in the area where you can set the graphics, sound, etc (system configuration?).

If you do it in 'slow-mo' first, you learn how to move the sticks at the various parts of the maneuver. Then slowly increase the sim speed ...and I usually practice at the highest speed possible (because I think most 3d planes are much faster than how they are on the sims).

Once you think you really have it mastered on the sim, give it a try on your real RC(s) ...altitude is your friend (I'll do rolling harriers at 2' off the ground in the sim(s), but at about 60' high with my 3d planes ...crashing's free on the sim...not so much in real life ).

Even though that's not a direct answer to your question, I hope that helps. Have fun!

I forgot to mention ...a good 3d plane makes a huuuuuuuge difference. I got the e-flite Carbon-Z Yak 54 after watching the vids and reading all the hype. Not a good learning 3d plane. It's kind of sloppy flying so you spend more time correcting it than focusing on the maneuver. I let a couple local guys fly it (they're extremely good 3d pilots and they totally agreed and said "It's harder to fly 3d than the good 3d planes" ).
I then grabbed an Extreme Flight (48" ..same size as the CZ Yak) and wow! What a difference and sow much easier. The airplane does what my fingers tell it to do. example: rolls ...the yak will roll a little extra after centering the sticks, so you learn to go past center to stop it where you want vs the Edge stops right where I tell it to by simply centering the aileron stick. (not Yak bashing ..I still have it and like it ...I'm just stating my opinion).

For a really good 3d Trainer: the 3D hobby shop 33" Extra 330 EPP (foamie) ...great for learning and takes crashes really well. You can buy the airframe and chinese electronics and batteries for less than you can buy most of the latest umx planes by e-flite! It flies differently than the 'real' planes, but you learn the sticks and still have the 'avoid the ground ...pucker factor' ...somewhat
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Old Jul 22, 2011, 06:32 AM
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United States, MA, Medfield
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I didn't realize the sim could be slowed down. That's definitely a plus; doing stuff in slo-mo is a great way to learn. I spent some time learning to play mandolin and there's a bunch of SW now to slow down recordings. It makes it much easier to play along with when you are learning a song.
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Old Jul 22, 2011, 10:56 AM
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central PA.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by losifanatic View Post
4point rolls and slow rolls. Crap you maen I still have these thing to learn before i can progress any further Man I guess I need to go out and practice some more

Arron sweet vid of you flying the 103 in your front yard. AWESOME just AWESOME

the hesitation and slow rolls are suggested as they're things that will help you learn the stir for rollers and such... but you're flying rollers, so... just practice whatever you want whenever you want
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Old Jul 22, 2011, 01:36 PM
Scott Stoops
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United States, CO, Longmont
Joined Mar 2002
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Originally Posted by losifanatic View Post
4point rolls and slow rolls. Crap you maen I still have these thing to learn before i can progress any further Man I guess I need to go out and practice some more
Give precision 1-2 minutes per flight, and you'll reap the benefits...
Quote:
Originally Posted by losifanatic View Post
Arron sweet vid of you flying the 103 in your front yard. AWESOME just AWESOME
Couldn't agree more. Amazing.

Scott
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Old Jul 22, 2011, 07:54 PM
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Well I'm having fun with a bunch of the 3D planes in Phoenix. Working mainly on--

Knife-edges-- straight and circles.

Harriers-- I suck but to find it easier with the bigger planes.

Slow rolls-- to get the rudder waggle; I still am not to the point where I can try the rudder waggle and elevator waggle at the same time. Kinda the pat your head and rub your belly at the same time problem.

I wonder how accurate some of the models are. Some seem too precise, although I've never flown a big plane. I was doing parachutes with one of the mid-sized planes, 3D Max I think, and it just drops straight down flat. No wing tip drop. No nosing over. Can a real plane really sink precisely that flat in a total tall?

-l2t
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Old Jul 22, 2011, 07:57 PM
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Can someone tell me how to practice torque rolls
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Old Jul 22, 2011, 07:58 PM
Irg
ol' yellow eyes is back
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Brooklyn, NY
Joined Apr 2009
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Originally Posted by learn2turn View Post
Can a real plane really sink precisely that flat in a total tall?

-l2t
yes!
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