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Old Sep 04, 2003, 03:56 PM
Registered User
Lexington, KY
Joined Aug 2003
255 Posts
I've been messing with inverted lately too. Get a bit of air between Moth and ground, hit a quick dive, jam the stick back and just before cresting the "loop" jam the stick forward. Mine will stay inverted but lose altitude in a shallow dive. I kindof play chicken before popping the stick back to pull out of it. FUN!!
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Old Sep 04, 2003, 04:40 PM
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San Diego, California
Joined Aug 2003
580 Posts
Ahhh... Altitude... Good idea!

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Old Sep 04, 2003, 06:07 PM
victim of the system
TooTall's Avatar
Home of the Toledo RC show
Joined Jul 2003
2,486 Posts
so with so many power options and I have mine, now I need prop options .....has any one cut down props .....I am cutting down a 9x7 to an 8x7 and maybe a 10x8 to a 9x8 .....thinking along the lines of higher revs...less amp draw...without lose of thrust.....seems to make sense but since I am wrong about 60 minutes every hour this may be a ludicrous way of thinking!!!
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Old Sep 04, 2003, 08:53 PM
AllAloneInSpaceAndTime
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Canada, ON, Guelph
Joined Apr 2003
2,387 Posts
Yeah, flying inverted and righting too low was what made me lose a wheel. But I think I have something around here to use somewhere. Nothing better to do until I get the new motors. I will try the M-100 on the Moth, but probably won't keep it there.

TooTall,
Let us know how it goes. How are you planning on cutting them? Are you just going to round the tips, or slice them thin too?


Corey
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Old Sep 04, 2003, 11:52 PM
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Charlotte Douglas, NC
Joined Sep 2003
3,014 Posts
Greetings. I just wanted to jump in and say Hi!

I ventured into the wonderfull world of RC about 6 years ago and tried my hand at flying Heli's. Well, considering I did not have a club and the one person I knew that flew did help me setup my Heli and radio and even gave me some brief lessons in flying, I did end up crashing my Heli from a few hundred feet in the sky. I did learn many lessons that day and also felt my heart sank as that expensive Heli hit the ground and shattered into MANY pieces. Well, I imediately went out and bought another one and put it together but never did fly it. It has sat ontop of my bed for many years now and the urge to try to fly again has been nagging at me for a while.

So, I decided that I would try to learn on planes first and then maybe get back to my Heli in time. My first plane was a disaster. well, not really, but the maiden flight ended in a broken rudder and elevator and sadly it never actually flew. It was a hobbico Speed pro (supposedly for newbies) but I do believe that I just got a bad tail section and should not have tried to fly it till I got a replacement. Since then, I put it on the shelf and have decided to wait on it till I get a little more experience. Considering it is only a 2 channel and doesnt even have throttle control, I felt it best to find something a little more manageable.

Enter the Tiger Moth.

I have since bought the tiger moth and have started to put it together. I just got the fusealage glued with the motor mount and motor installed. I hope to have it completed by this weekend and weather permitting, having my madien flight Sunday at the local baseball field just down the street from my house.

I have read ALL the other 2 sets of posts on your newbie story line and let me say it has been a pleasure reading it. there has been some wonderfull stories and ideas and helpful tips and I think with the help of this thread and the fine Tiger Moth owners out there, that I am going to really enjoy my new Tiger Moth.

I look forward to conversing with all of you and hope you dont mind when I ask REALLY stupid questions. For instance, I have had my TM almost a week now and finally decided to try and put it together. I must say that the instructions that come with it may be easy for a 12 year old to read, but my 30 something butt was freaking out when i saw it. Alot of this stuff is currently beyond my know how and I hope to one day understand it all, but I got to say, building my first Heli was soooo much easier then building a plane. There is no glueing with the heli, its just putting in a bunch of screws. I just know I am going to screw up somewhere and that will be the reason the plane crashes to the ground on takeoff =)


Do you guys have any other advice for a true newbie to the art of building an aircraft (even if it is an arf)?

Oh, I forgot to mention that I am using the JR radio 642 that I bought for my heli. I got the flight pack with the standard stuff and a very small 150mah battery. From everything I read, once I learn to fly this baby I am going to switch to Lipo's for that extra flight time and kick =)

My first question with my radio. Will there be any programming I will have to do to it at first? The plane doesnt have ailerons so I dont think I need to worry about mixing or anything like that. I figured the only real thing I would need to program in is trim settings if i want to keep my trims at neutral for other planes, but that can be done later. I did read some posts in other forums about gws having problems with a PCM FM radio. Any chance i will run into these problems of the safety features keeping me from getting the plane off the ground??


Thanks

DD
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Old Sep 04, 2003, 11:52 PM
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Charlotte Douglas, NC
Joined Sep 2003
3,014 Posts
edit: somehow got a double post.
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Old Sep 05, 2003, 12:32 AM
Smooth Air
Morb's Avatar
Kelowna, British Columbia, Canada
Joined Apr 2003
1,500 Posts
Quote:
Originally posted by DoomsDay
Oh, I forgot to mention that I am using the JR radio 642 that I bought for my heli. I got the flight pack with the standard stuff and a very small 150mah battery. From everything I read, once I learn to fly this baby I am going to switch to Lipo's for that extra flight time and kick =)

My first question with my radio. Will there be any programming I will have to do to it at first? The plane doesnt have ailerons so I dont think I need to worry about mixing or anything like that. I figured the only real thing I would need to program in is trim settings if i want to keep my trims at neutral for other planes, but that can be done later. I did read some posts in other forums about gws having problems with a PCM FM radio. Any chance i will run into these problems of the safety features keeping me from getting the plane off the ground??


Thanks

DD
Doomsday, Greets and welcome to Ezone, and the wonderful world of parkflyers. You have chosen a GREAT plane to start flying with

First of all, shelve that 150 mah battery as if you are lucky, you will get about 5 mins of flight time. A suggestion would be to jump straight to Lipoly, since the sport is very expensive to get into, but gets cheaper in time as you accumalte stuff. Eventually you will only have to worry about buying more planes.

The only programming you may have to do is make sure that your servos aren't reversed. The tigermoth is VERY easy to set up, no mixing at all is required, since it is a three channel plane.

The thing you must remember with parkflyers, especially the tigermoth, is KEEP IT LIGHT. Hence, the jump into Lipoly. What size servos do you have, the best on this one are GWS Pico BB's or Hitec 55's (I think that the right size, someone will be sure to correct me if I'm wrong.)

Geof.
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Old Sep 05, 2003, 01:54 AM
Zoom, zoom...
Trikster's Avatar
Roseville, CA (Sacramento area)
Joined May 2003
3,514 Posts
Yes, the GWS Pico's or the Hitec 55 or 50's will fit the bill. If you fly by yourself, a GWS R4-p Rx should be fine. If you fly with others on adjacent channels, a Berg Stamp Rx might be a better (albeit more expensive) option.

Geof. stated correctly that "Keeping it light" is golden. The lighter your plane, the more responsive it will be. On a plane like a Moth, the slower it will fly. The downside to being light is wind penetration. Lack of inertia translates to a plane that will wander in a crosswind. It has taken me 7 hours on a Tiger Moth to build enough confidence to tackle wind of any speed (up to 20mph gusts, 12 mph sustained). I still crash, but all I seem to break now is motor sticks. Since this is a relatively easy part to fix, I will not reinforce that area. If I do and crash hard enough, I will only end up breaking something harder to fix and potentially more costly.

As long as the Rx you are using is PCM compatable, I see no problems. Most of the liteweight Rx's that I know of are not compatible though (the Berg or the GWS).
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Old Sep 05, 2003, 06:04 AM
Non Practicing A&P Tech
dulcelife's Avatar
Tampa, Florida, United States
Joined Aug 2003
2,330 Posts
Doomsday,

Welcome to the zone and by no means feel bad about the expensive mistakes you have made in trying to put something into the sky.

I too have been misguided by overzealous Hobby Shop fellas who know so much they've become newbie dumb and down right expensive for us. I lost a little over $100.00 on a Firebird XL that decided to get lost. Then a fella at the LHS shook his head and professed I had started with the wrong plane and sold me the ultimate trainer; the Funny Park. Not to mention all the stuff that goes with it. I Can't get it back home in one piece EVER!.

Got a ZERO I'm not ready for, then there's the Bug.

Don't sweat putting this little thing together. It is very hard to build an unflyable version of the Tiger Moth.

More importantly do not sweat flying it. Will you crash? Yes you will. but the beauty is you put a little epoxy or probond, wait a little while and go back out and try again with your mistakes and planned corrections in mind.

work slow, test fit everything before you glue, if unsure ask questions here, and then go out and get addicted.

No programming necessary on radio besides what already said and it IS IMPORTANT!! check servo reversal; make sure that rudder and elevator are moving in the expected direction.

My only other recommedation is to use dual rates if you have it, set as 50 or 60 percent. If you already have a light touch and are used to "blipping" in your control inputs in small amounts then you do not need them.

Good luck and don't forget to post some pictures of your project.


Luis~
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Old Sep 05, 2003, 08:06 AM
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DoomsDay's Avatar
Charlotte Douglas, NC
Joined Sep 2003
3,014 Posts
Thanks for the welcomes guys. As for my servos, I bought the GWS flight pack for JR. It came with the gws 4ch reciever, servos battery and esc.

I am also using 10 minute epoxy for putting the plane together, that stuff sure smells, but it sticks quick. One question I would like to ask, I want to put a couple modifications onto the tiger moth probably very shortly after getting her in the air. I want to do the landing gear upgrade and do the wing wires mod. Eventually I am going to add the night lights on it to, just cause I think they look really cool, But I figure I can put that on a different channel and cut it on and off when I want to save battery power (but this one is for after I learn how to fly)

the question I have is that to make the wing wire modification and the nice landing gear, I see posts of what they look like, but I havent found any step by step directions in making them and a parts list of the parts I would need to buy to do these. Any chance anyone has them both?

As for going to lipoly, Oh yeah, I will be heading in that direction, but my wife has already cut me off from any more spending till I get this plane in the air and can actually fly it. So I am stuck with 5 minute flight times for the first few times I fly (which I think is ok, I will be nervous enough as it is and 5 minutes should be way more then needed) then she can see that I am actually flying and may let me spend a little more money =)

I do not have a digital camera, but I will try to take pics as I go along and post them later after developed. I hope to get to borrow one of my friends video cameras for my maiden flight so everyone can get to see how big a fool I am in the air =)

DD
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Old Sep 05, 2003, 08:35 AM
LcJ
Forever TMWT Pilot #11
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United States, LA, Monroe
Joined Mar 2003
5,575 Posts
Welcome from me also. One suggestion. Before you put the struts in, drill the holes for the wing wire. Also figure out how you want the wires to connect to the bottom wing near the fuselage. This is easier to do before you glue everthing together.
At least for me it was. Basketcase has an excellent photo showing how the wires actually run. I ran one piece that did both sides. I don't think I could explain it but I'll try. When you get to the first strut in the middle of the wing, instead of turning back to finish that half, go thru the other inside strut and finish the other half of the wing, and then come back thru both struts and finish the half you stated on. Are you confused yet?

Find the post that Basketcase did and you will understand.

The only thing I did differently than basket case is to use small fishing swivels under the lower wing that poke thru the wing to attach your wire to. I used two swivels and then connected them under the wing. Basketcase's solution for that was easier, but I just had to try something else.

Peace,
LcJ
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Old Sep 05, 2003, 08:42 AM
The devils playground
Tasmania's Avatar
Island of Tasmania
Joined Apr 2003
799 Posts
Welcome to the forum DoomsDay, and good luck with the moth, dont worry about asking dum questions I do it all the time. These guys in this thread are the best I've ever met, they are all enthusiastic, full of great ideas and always, always willing to help and share their knowledge. I bought my moth after reading this thread, never flown one before and I love it

good luck

Taz
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Old Sep 05, 2003, 10:38 AM
Registered User
Lexington, KY
Joined Aug 2003
255 Posts
Wing wires - I tried several methods. settling on the following - used fine dental floss for wires, and made an attachment point at the wing root by using a scrap piece of white strut plastic, maybe 1 cm wide and long enough to span the lower wing center support and extend maybe 1/2 cm on each side. Drill a hole at each end of this strip and CA it to the wing support, maybe 1/4 of the way back from leading edge. Then drill holes at the top and bottom of each outer wing strut, and the top of the rear center struts. Start floss at front top outer strut, run to wing root, and back to rear strut. make it snug and wrap it a few times around the strut and secure it with a drop of CA. Then start a new piece of floss at lower end of one wing strut, run to top of rear center strut, and back to the other lower strut. This has held up very well for me, and is a must do if you want to do stunts.

Landing gear - tried various methods here, the best so far is to copy your existing gear with .055" music wire. This is not too much heavier and works great without needing any cross reinforcement. For wheels I used a pair of foam wheels off an aerobird, any light foam wheels 1-1 3/4" dia will work (Dubro etc). I used a couple small pieces of wire insulation CA'ed to the wire for wheel keepers.

I also made a (non-steerable) tail wheel by buying Dubro micro tailwheels (basically just hard plastic wheels about 1/2" diameter, you could use all kinds of toy wheels etc). I bent a small piece of .032" music wire and epoxied it to the stock plastic tail skid, used the keepers that came with the wheel. This was a worthwhile improvement in takeoff speed.
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Old Sep 05, 2003, 12:40 PM
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San Diego, California
Joined Aug 2003
580 Posts
Day 5 (2 actually flying):

This morning I few my TM on the 2 cell Lipo's I was lucky enough to find. I'm getting a little over 25 minutes of near full power flying.

Sadly, the flying field was at near capacity for my taste with dual conversion stuff, so the TM with the little single conversion Rx wasn't doing very well.... lots of glitching and funking out. Had a death spiral from about 15 feet when I flew the little lady up the strip about 15 yards..... Love the light little planes! Picked her back up w/o any noticed damage and walked down to the far end again and took off nicely.

Flew for about 5 more minutes before I couldn't stand the glitching anymore. Landed reasonably well (our runway needs to be scraped of sand/dirt/rocks). Went home and plugged in the battery for about 20 minutes and then flew her on my street. That went okay, but it's too narrow for anything really fun and there were cars driving by.... Plus, hitting the tree across the street wasn't so smart (but I did save her and was able to pull a landing after it bounced off a few branches - FULL POWER GOOD)..... She checked out fine (a few pressure dents in the leading edge smotthed out nicely with a pinch or 2).

Assistance Requested:

I'm having a real problem with warped wings. She wants to bank left a ton. I had my Tx trimmed to 89% to the right to keep it flying nearly level. I taped a piece of plastic to the right wing in the up position to drop the right wing... it works but it's ugly and slows her down a bit too much.

I've got strutt wires running, and think I could (maybe) use them to change the wing shape a bit, but when I was fiddling with them it just basically bent the stock plastic support struts.

My first instinct is to leave her in the back seat of my car in the sun with a little pressure on the wings to re-shape them.... but there's very little control of the result unless I sit and watch all day...

Another problem I've noticed is that I've got a lot of down trim for when the power's going, and when I cut power down to next to nothing, I've got to give up elevator to keep it level. She doesn't dead stick so well... but you can control it to some degree.

So, what can I do to improve the wing shape and maybe help with pitch (or should I just live with it?)

- Tony
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Old Sep 05, 2003, 02:14 PM
an earth bound misfit, I
Basketcase's Avatar
St. Pete, Florida
Joined Sep 2001
9,429 Posts
Hi Doomsday, welcome to E Zone. You're starting out with the right plane. You'll be flying in no time. If you don't already have a sim I'd recommend downloading FMS and practicing. It really helps with the orientation.

The pics for the wing wires mod mentioned by LCJ are on page 6 of the Oh no, not another TM thread

For the landing gear mine has strengthened channels, where the wire slides in, a reinforcing wire between the legs, leg fairings and a rubberband to a hook in the nose. It adds a fairly scale look and actually works as a shock absorber with the stock wire. Pics on page 1 and page 3 of the above thread


Tony, you might want to cut the struts loose from one of the wings and reposition them to get the twist out. To stiffen up the struts you can use cf rod on the leading and traing edges, or lite ply or balsa on the sides (can be sanded to an airfoil shape).

Trying to pull it straight with the wires doesn't work for long, (I've tried it ) My TM seems to prefer the wires almost snug while standing still and the flying wires taught while flying, with the landing wires flapping in the breeze until landing.

When securing flying wires don't put glue in the hole, wrap the wire (floss, string, ect) around the strut and secure it with a drop of CA to the side of the strut, then if it needs adjustment or repair it's easy to peel it off without having to redrill the hole.

Wayne
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