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Old Aug 14, 2011, 11:03 PM
3 Sons - Legos and Lift
2motheus's Avatar
Grand Rapids, MI
Joined Apr 2004
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I'll chime in here and see if I can briefly address a few things that have been raised in the discussion.

Electric Drill - Yes, it is very handy. When winding by hand with the supplied small reel you can take out the ground stake and use it as a handle. This lets you at least stand up and walk toward the line as you wind. We chose the small reel to maximize portability. You can always pick up a $6 extension cord reel if you want a bigger hub for hand winding.

Line Tension and Tow Hook Position - AEAJR mentioned an increase in tension and feeling like he should stop pulling. Being able to release tension when desired is an advantage, especially if the plane is headed to the side. It is normal to feel variations in tension, and even a 2m can stop your backward motion if it gets hit by a gust. The important thing is that the plane continues to fly.
One pilot with a moldie said his normal winch launch settings made it feel like he was too close to a stall with the OneWinch. He reduced the camber a bit and things improved. With RES you could put in a couple clicks of down or move the hook forward a bit.

The OneWinch will not pull the plane up as fast as a powered winch. You can take your time as long as you keep the plane from stalling.

Walking Forward for Self Launch? - Probably not. The problem isn't getting another pulley into the system. But it would be about impossible to properly tension the line for release. You would be leaning forward while pulling your plane backward.
CORRECTION: After more thought, I think this might be doable. We'll maybe try it some time.

Rough Field? - We don't want anyone getting hurt. If there's any doubt about staying on your feet it's best to have a puller who can watch the terrain.

-

These are all good questions. The OneWinch is different enough from anything else that it sometimes takes seeing it in person to know if it would work for you. Those who have tried it have been quite pleased.

Tim
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Old Aug 15, 2011, 08:28 AM
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Originally Posted by MrE View Post
You guys havent spent much time in a horse pasture have you? Especially one thats not groomed.

Im not talking a nicely groomed field where the basic ground is flat with nice even grass. Im talking about a wild, rough, uneven field thats never been leveled or plowed.

Its not a matter of scouting out a hole or two or even ten and finding the nice smooth path just a couple of feet away.

Its a matter of gofer holes and mounds every 3 feet in any direction, horse hoof prints going inches deep every few inches pluss rolling ups and downs and dips and hills and humps of one foot to 12 feet more all over the field.

This is a rough field - not a groomed field.

Add to that deep weeds/grass that hide many of those holes and dips.

Im not kidding when I say its hazardous just walking forwards. You think you're stepping onto the next nice flat spot and you sink into a hole several inches or more deep instead.

Id challenge anyone to walk 20feet backwards in this field without ending up on thier butt
So I guess hi-starts would be out as well.

No problem, there are always electric gliders.

Enjoy!
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Old Aug 15, 2011, 10:56 PM
MrE
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I wasnt intending to bash the launcher or in any way knock the product. It sure must have come across that way .

I actually happen to think its a pretty cool idea. If I wasnt so clumsy or if I had a better field to use it in, Id probably be all over it.

My appologies.
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Old Aug 16, 2011, 09:10 AM
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Originally Posted by MrE View Post
I wasnt intending to bash the launcher or in any way knock the product. It sure must have come across that way .

I actually happen to think its a pretty cool idea. If I wasnt so clumsy or if I had a better field to use it in, Id probably be all over it.

My appologies.
I didn't think you were. Just trying to understand the challenge you face and maybe offer a friendly tip or two.
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Old Aug 16, 2011, 12:19 PM
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I'm curious, on the OneWinch, what kind of line is used? Does it have stretch like mono to help load up the launch?
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Old Aug 16, 2011, 12:32 PM
3 Sons - Legos and Lift
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Grand Rapids, MI
Joined Apr 2004
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No worries, MrE.

If this discussion were in person the chance of misunderstanding would be greatly reduced. It's emails like yours that help us realize we're in this together, simply trying to get information or help each other out.

I didn't feel like you were being critical, and as the designer of the OneWinch I know it can't meet every need. The issues you bring up give us more information to work with for the next version.

Thank you for clearing the air.
Tim
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Old Aug 16, 2011, 12:39 PM
3 Sons - Legos and Lift
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Grand Rapids, MI
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Quote:
Originally Posted by salkeld17 View Post
I'm curious, on the OneWinch, what kind of line is used? Does it have stretch like mono to help load up the launch?
Yes - the chute half of the line is mono. This maintains pressure at launch and through rotation. It also allows you to build a little energy for a modest zoom.

The pull half of the line is braided - to resist nicks and to avoid tangles where it loops through the pulleys.

Tim
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Old Aug 16, 2011, 02:45 PM
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The line combo works well.

Tim, what is the strength of the mono and the braided line? As I was launching I was concerned that I might over stress it because I did not know its rating.

Also, if I wanted to make the launch set-up longer, what would be the best approach?
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Old Aug 16, 2011, 02:50 PM
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Can the Onewinch be setup for short fields and landing practice low height release? Like an upstart rather than a highstart. Thanks.
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Old Aug 16, 2011, 04:42 PM
3 Sons - Legos and Lift
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Grand Rapids, MI
Joined Apr 2004
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aeajr View Post
The line combo works well.

Tim, what is the strength of the mono and the braided line? As I was launching I was concerned that I might over stress it because I did not know its rating.

Also, if I wanted to make the launch set-up longer, what would be the best approach?
150# mono, 170# braided

You think you're stressing the line, but the force is shared 4 ways. You would have to pull with a force of 600# to break the mono at its rated strength, and the braided has margin beyond that.

To extend the system just add line on either end. Try to avoid having knots passing through pulleys.

Once you use it in some breeze you'll see great heights without extending it.

Tim
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Old Aug 16, 2011, 04:45 PM
3 Sons - Legos and Lift
2motheus's Avatar
Grand Rapids, MI
Joined Apr 2004
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Quote:
Originally Posted by leaktech View Post
Can the Onewinch be setup for short fields and landing practice low height release? Like an upstart rather than a highstart. Thanks.
Absolutely, and it works for any size plane. With no wind I estimate a launch height about 80% of the laid out length.

Tim

P.S. And you could maximize the stored energy by using just the mono portion of the line and anchoring the ground stake closer to the turnaround end of the field. On a 100' field you could accommodate the pre-tension stretch of almost 400' of line. I haven't tried this. The drawback would be the increased chance of tangles with several strands of mono working next to each other.
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Old Aug 16, 2011, 05:25 PM
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Originally Posted by 2motheus View Post
150# mono, 170# braided

You think you're stressing the line, but the force is shared 4 ways. You would have to pull with a force of 600# to break the mono at its rated strength, and the braided has margin beyond that.

To extend the system just add line on either end. Try to avoid having knots passing through pulleys.

Once you use it in some breeze you'll see great heights without extending it.

Tim
the divide by 4 might be true at the pullies but the plane is going up a single line and I have broken 200 pound test line with my planes, on the winch. THAT is why I asked.

If I apply 50 pounds of pull on the handle, am I not applying 400 pounds of pull on the line? Or is the multiplication factor the other way? Is 50 on the pull only 12.5 on the line?
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Old Aug 16, 2011, 06:21 PM
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If I remember physics class correctly, if you are applying 50lbs of pull on the entire pulley system, the whole line would experience 12.5 lbs of load because the load is divided by 4.

An easy way to visualize it is reversing the system, which is the same as what a pulley hoist does. A 4 pulley hoist will allow you to apply 12.5 lbs of pull to lift a 50 lb. object.

In the case of the diagram below as it relates to the OneWinch, you are on the bottom (weight side) pulling with 50lbs of pressure distributing the applied load on the line by 4, hence 12.5 lbs on the line.

(Diagram Credit to: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pulley)
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Old Aug 16, 2011, 07:00 PM
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Would love to see this device used for Two-Man Tow at F3J contest! Anyone try this yet?

Just curious,
Scotty
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Old Aug 16, 2011, 09:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by salkeld17 View Post
If I remember physics class correctly, if you are applying 50lbs of pull on the entire pulley system, the whole line would experience 12.5 lbs of load because the load is divided by 4.

An easy way to visualize it is reversing the system, which is the same as what a pulley hoist does. A 4 pulley hoist will allow you to apply 12.5 lbs of pull to lift a 50 lb. object.

In the case of the diagram below as it relates to the OneWinch, you are on the bottom (weight side) pulling with 50lbs of pressure distributing the applied load on the line by 4, hence 12.5 lbs on the line.

(Diagram Credit to: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pulley)
The difference is you are where the weight is. That is you pulling. the plane is on the string at the left side. so what is the pull on THAT string.
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