SMALL - espritmodel.com SMALL - Telemetry SMALL - Radio
Reply
Thread Tools
Old Jul 20, 2011, 08:36 AM
The plane went that-a-way
PCT_ATC's Avatar
United States, VA, Warrenton
Joined May 2011
114 Posts
google returned only one usuable hit on reflex towing It seems to be basically similiar to the one winch. http://www.hsl.org.au/articles/handtowing.pdf

Quote:
Originally Posted by aeajr View Post
Never heard of reflex towing.
PCT_ATC is offline Find More Posts by PCT_ATC
Reply With Quote
Sign up now
to remove ads between posts
Old Jul 20, 2011, 10:16 AM
LSF V,LSF Secretary,AMA Lifer
Robglover's Avatar
Huntsville
Joined Oct 2003
2,077 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by PCT_ATC View Post
We look forward to the review. Question for you. While watching the operation of the system in Muncie, how well did the quick release belt work. Its hard to tell from the online video.
The belt worked well when I tried it once. Standard Fastex buckle, well proven in many applications.
Robglover is offline Find More Posts by Robglover
Reply With Quote
Old Jul 20, 2011, 10:25 AM
Registered User
Dallas, TX
Joined Jan 2005
2,159 Posts
Sounds like line breaks can be painful.

http://www.orlandobuzzards.org/?p=631
jh2rc97 is offline Find More Posts by jh2rc97
Reply With Quote
Old Jul 20, 2011, 10:37 AM
ground penetration specialist
Nathan Schmoekel's Avatar
USA, MI, Grand Rapids
Joined Apr 2007
1,819 Posts
I had the pleasure of trying out the One Winch a few weeks back (before the nats). I am a DLG guy so I played tow mule for the guys flying...

TOO MUCH FUN!!! There is just some magical feeling about using human power to launch an airplane. As a handlaunch guy I am addicted to this feeling, and the One Winch provides this for the rest of the sail plane community.

I have had a fear of high starts and find powerful electric winches quite intimidating.....The One Winch offers wonderful tactile feedback from the airplane during the launch process. It's just so easy to use it's amazing, before now I would not have considered a sail plane that required field equipment to launch.

There is a learning curve with the routing of the lines through the pulleys, but it's quite simple and intuitive by the third time you do it. The setup takes no longer than a trailer hauled winch. Resetting between flights is as easy as taking a short walk...the "sled" design of the pulley tray allows it to slide on the ground to keep tension on the lines during recovery. When the time comes to stop flying the rewinding of the line can be done with a cordless drill....that makes it about as quick and simple as it gets!!
Nathan Schmoekel is offline Find More Posts by Nathan Schmoekel
Reply With Quote
Old Jul 20, 2011, 12:22 PM
Proud member of LISF and ESL
LI, New York, USA
Joined Mar 2003
24,246 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by jh2rc97 View Post
Sounds like line breaks can be painful.

http://www.orlandobuzzards.org/?p=631
Such are the steps of product development. You have to test to destruction to see where things will break. Then you can address the issues. But until you break something, you don't know.

It is like the rubber powered guys say.

How many turns on the rubber?

Turn till it breaks, then go two less than that.
aeajr is offline Find More Posts by aeajr
Reply With Quote
Old Jul 20, 2011, 01:28 PM
3 Sons - Legos and Lift
2motheus's Avatar
Grand Rapids, MI
Joined Apr 2004
560 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by jh2rc97 View Post
Sounds like line breaks can be painful.

http://www.orlandobuzzards.org/?p=631
Yes - we did have one line break during development, back in 2009. Any hand towing carries with it some risk. Please use caution with the OneWinch, making sure lines and knots are up to the configuration you're using.

You'll see from the pictures that this was a prototype, at least two generations back. We've learned from the incident and made improvements.

As others have mentioned, this is a very fun way to launch and it was a classic scene of boys with a new toy. We were taking turns pulling, and aided by the wind were getting excellent launches with the 2 meter size. When we stepped up to the unlimited ship we decided to adjust the pulley ratio to make sure the larger plane and 20+ mph wind didn't overpower the tow man. This entailed shortening the line with a temporary tie-off. To Rich the tow man's credit, he had the High End rising with authority and well out of harm's way before the line slipped.

As mentioned on the Buzzards' site, we have beefed up the fittings and put the termination knot inside Kevlar sleeving.

We appreciate the ongoing encouragement from the Orlando Buzzards and others.

Tim
2motheus is offline Find More Posts by 2motheus
Reply With Quote
Old Jul 20, 2011, 01:40 PM
3 Sons - Legos and Lift
2motheus's Avatar
Grand Rapids, MI
Joined Apr 2004
560 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by PCT_ATC View Post
google returned only one usuable hit on reflex towing It seems to be basically similiar to the one winch. http://www.hsl.org.au/articles/handtowing.pdf
Thank you for the link. That's a good summary of hand towing options.

A couple of new things that the OneWinch brings:
1. The pilot can tow his own plane. Obviously this won't be with the same energy as an F3J or "double reflex" launch.
2. The retrieval process is also a one-person task because the lines are controlled by the unique sled design.

P.S. I like your avatar. And you're still flying!
2motheus is offline Find More Posts by 2motheus
Reply With Quote
Old Jul 20, 2011, 01:55 PM
Registered User
lesterpk's Avatar
Australia, WA, Perth
Joined Oct 2003
875 Posts
Its essentailly the same akthough the video above seems to show amore complicated pulley arangment near the pilot. Stake out a line to a turnaround and back to the pilot. Using a second pulley near the stake, have a helper or as shown the pilot can do it himself using a belt, they then walk with the pulley as shown to pull in the line.
Not so popular in NZ but certainly common in Australia with 2m model competitions. Attached is a pic from the rules demonstrating the launch method.
Not saying what is being talked about here isnt good, just that its not really new.
lesterpk is offline Find More Posts by lesterpk
Reply With Quote
Old Jul 20, 2011, 02:30 PM
3 Sons - Legos and Lift
2motheus's Avatar
Grand Rapids, MI
Joined Apr 2004
560 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by lesterpk View Post
Its essentailly the same akthough the video above seems to show amore complicated pulley arangment near the pilot. Stake out a line to a turnaround and back to the pilot. Using a second pulley near the stake, have a helper or as shown the pilot can do it himself using a belt, they then walk with the pulley as shown to pull in the line.
Not so popular in NZ but certainly common in Australia with 2m model competitions. Attached is a pic from the rules demonstrating the launch method.
Not saying what is being talked about here isnt good, just that its not really new.
No worries. It's actually encouraging to see we're not the only ones willing to put ourselves into our launches.

The reason for the more complicated pulley arrangement is that with the OneWinch you can put an additional loop between the pull handle and the stake. This gives the plane twice the plane-to-puller speed ratio. So with a self-tow you don't have to move backward so fast. You can also set it up exactly as your picture shows.

Tim
2motheus is offline Find More Posts by 2motheus
Last edited by 2motheus; Jul 20, 2011 at 04:08 PM.
Reply With Quote
Old Jul 20, 2011, 06:32 PM
Registered User
Luis Moya's Avatar
Mexico
Joined May 2004
225 Posts
Subscribed

All the best,

Luis
Luis Moya is offline Find More Posts by Luis Moya
Reply With Quote
Old Jul 20, 2011, 06:40 PM
Registered User
Dallas, TX
Joined Jan 2005
2,159 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2motheus View Post
Yes - we did have one line break during development, back in 2009. Any hand towing carries with it some risk. Please use caution with the OneWinch, making sure lines and knots are up to the configuration you're using.

You'll see from the pictures that this was a prototype, at least two generations back. We've learned from the incident and made improvements.

As others have mentioned, this is a very fun way to launch and it was a classic scene of boys with a new toy. We were taking turns pulling, and aided by the wind were getting excellent launches with the 2 meter size. When we stepped up to the unlimited ship we decided to adjust the pulley ratio to make sure the larger plane and 20+ mph wind didn't overpower the tow man. This entailed shortening the line with a temporary tie-off. To Rich the tow man's credit, he had the High End rising with authority and well out of harm's way before the line slipped.

As mentioned on the Buzzards' site, we have beefed up the fittings and put the termination knot inside Kevlar sleeving.

We appreciate the ongoing encouragement from the Orlando Buzzards and others.

Tim
Tim,
It is good to hear that it has been improved since then. I sent you an e-mail a few minutes ago to arrange purchasing a One Winch. It does look like fun and less to haul around campared to a winch.

Alan
jh2rc97 is offline Find More Posts by jh2rc97
Reply With Quote
Old Jul 20, 2011, 07:11 PM
Registered User
David Forbes's Avatar
United States, FL, Gainesville
Joined Dec 2005
2,848 Posts
This is great stuff, the classic physics problem trades a large amount of line for a mechanical advantage, i.e., you pull a lot of rope with little effort, the pulleys move a lot of load for a smaller distance and it's much less percieved effort. Now we can put our beer guts (excuse me, mass) to good use to reverse the process, now we can pull a lot of line without moving very far.
I like it, can't wait to see one in use.
Dave
David Forbes is offline Find More Posts by David Forbes
Reply With Quote
Old Jul 20, 2011, 07:52 PM
3 Sons - Legos and Lift
2motheus's Avatar
Grand Rapids, MI
Joined Apr 2004
560 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by David Forbes View Post
This is great stuff, the classic physics problem trades a large amount of line for a mechanical advantage, i.e., you pull a lot of rope with little effort, the pulleys move a lot of load for a smaller distance and it's much less percieved effort. Now we can put our beer guts (excuse me, mass) to good use to reverse the process, now we can pull a lot of line without moving very far.
I like it, can't wait to see one in use.
Dave
You've got it. Put your lunch into your launch!
2motheus is offline Find More Posts by 2motheus
Reply With Quote
Old Jul 20, 2011, 08:34 PM
Registered User
Holland MI
Joined Feb 2010
347 Posts
Just wanted you to know the west Michigan soaring club is having a comp this weekend at the club field. I'm just getting into the winch launch side ( I flew with you once at walmart with Nate last fal) I don't want to purchase a winch but this might be a option. Hoping you can come and show off your new one winch
Krazykayak75 is offline Find More Posts by Krazykayak75
Reply With Quote
Old Jul 21, 2011, 03:42 AM
you are not paying attention
christchurch New Zealand
Joined Oct 2008
66 Posts
yep, you got to to get up dam early to teach them kiwis a new trick.
flying1 is offline Find More Posts by flying1
Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools

Similar Threads
Category Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Discussion New discus launch method ? Nathan Schmoekel Hand Launch 8 Jan 22, 2009 09:13 PM
Discussion New launch method Larry051967 Hand Launch 34 Dec 30, 2008 08:30 AM
Art Hobby's Sling Shot launch method? John Gallagher Hand Launch 6 Sep 19, 2003 11:54 AM
Sling launch method John Gallagher Hand Launch 1 Sep 19, 2003 11:53 AM
GWS A-10 Best Method to launch walter40 Electric Ducted Fan Jet Talk 4 Jun 08, 2003 02:47 PM