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Old Jan 25, 2012, 10:28 AM
Just call me crash for short
Quick61's Avatar
United States, OH, The Plains
Joined Jan 2011
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Thank you for that "short" explanation. Just the info I was looking for. Think maybe it's time to start squirreling back my change for the spring.

Mark
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Old Jan 25, 2012, 10:59 AM
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United States, WI, Stoddard
Joined Dec 2009
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Aeajr your not long winded, you are highly experienced, and I greatly appreciate it.I too be leave that any plane that can be launched off a high start can be launched off a one winch.I suppose the thought of a 6 meter plane spooks me.LOL. I'm an experienced builder but a newb when it comes to flying.so far when I have launched off a high start the plane seems to go up at a very steep angle.and seems to keep going .But I have had a couple of times where it fell off to the side,it was an odd feeling, and most times I recovered.What do you consider a correct angel of ascent?Most of the guy's I fly with are used to winches, and high starts.So we are all going to go through the learning curve together.I'm thinking of sending a foam bird up the first couple of times so I don't stuff a good plane at first.And now that I think about it it may well have been a stall, and I will re read you last couple of posts to be sure I don't miss any details ,a little slow on the uptake LOL.Thanks.
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Last edited by doc993; Jan 25, 2012 at 11:09 AM. Reason: spelling,punchtuation,ceribral flatulance
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Old Jan 25, 2012, 11:53 AM
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When launcing off a winch we have almost unlimited power as compared to the weight of the plane. As a result we can set the hook very far back to take the plane almost straight up. This requries the power of the FLS winch AND a very strong wing. That wing may be wood or it may be composite but the spar has to be able to stand up to that pull and the pressure on the wing.

When you see winch pilots launching high end planes you can actually see them stall the winch based on the angle of the climb and the strength of the wing. Many of us use 250+ pound test line to help resist line breakage.

My Supra climbs almost straight up when launched off the winch. This is not due to the power of the winch, it is due to the hook location on the plane. So my Supra is optimized for FLS winch launches. If I don't tension up the line enough of if the battery is weak, the climb may be erattic, the wing may stall and fall off to the side and I can have a really bad launch. It takes a lot of power to maintain that steep climb angle.

When I launch the Supra off a hi-start in calm air I have to add down elevator to keep the glider from rotating so steeply. The hi-start can't generate enough speed and pull to maintain that 80 degree verticle climb. However, if there is a 10 mph wind I can probably get that steep climb as the wind increases the net air speed of the glider beyond what the hi-start can provide. However in calm air I have to reduce the angle of climb or risk stalling and loss of control.

Here is the key point. - If a hi-start was my standard launching method I would have the hook placed more forward on my Supra. Instead of an 80 degree climb angle I might opt for more of a 60 degree climb to insure I have enough speed to insure the glider gets above and stays above the stall speed.

Note that my hi-start can provide up to 24 pounds of pull which is 6X the weight of my 4 pound Supra. Most 3M histarts provide less than 20 pounds of pull so that is why I use that as my comparison point.

There are a LOT of high end glider pilots who launch off hi-starts. Just because you have a high end moldie doesn't automatially imply you are launching off a FLS or F3B class winch.

If you go to my earlier posts in this discussion you will see that I have emphasized the hook position being critical to successful launches by the OneWinch. The OneWinch is more aligned with the power of a 3M hi-start than a FLS winch. So you have to set up your glider as if it is being launched off a hi-start rather than a FLS winch.

My advice would be that you set the hook more forward for your early OneWinch launches while you get the feel of the launch method. As you get used to this method, move the hook back till you find that comfortable launch angle that works best for you.


I hope that helps.
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Last edited by aeajr; Jan 25, 2012 at 12:01 PM.
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Old Jan 25, 2012, 12:43 PM
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BTW, this more forward hook suggestion is the same thing I do when I am teaching someone how to launch on a HS or a winch. the more forward the hook the less likely the glider will stall and the greater the control the pilot has.

Once they get the technique down, then we move the hook back a bit at a time till we optimize the luanch for that launching device, be it winch or hi-start.
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Old Jan 25, 2012, 01:12 PM
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Thanks Aeajr you probably just saved me some grief, and my plane Almost every time I sent my plane up with a high start guy's were telling me to move my hook back, and in those instances it worked.But I will start with a more forward position with the one winch.Baby steps.Thank you .
The supra is a desighn that I always keep coming back too, and I think I want to build one in the next couple years.
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Old Jan 25, 2012, 01:44 PM
Making wood fly since 2007
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USA, MN, Rochester
Joined Mar 2008
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Hi Doc,

Have you been practicing out in the cold? If so, you are heartier than me. If we can ever coordinate you coming over here to Rochester we can use my foam 2M Highlander as a guinea pig. Its seen plenty of unplanned landings and a botched launch or two won't wrinkle it any worse than it already is. I will keep you in the loop about future flying activities over here.

Wayne
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Old Jan 25, 2012, 01:54 PM
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Hi Wayne No I have not used it yet.Yes meeting with you guy's is at the top of my list for this spring.I had a nice phone conversation with Capt. Canardly and he really wants to fly with us as well.So this year I think will be action packed.I will post as soon as I use the one winch.Can't wait!
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Old Jan 25, 2012, 02:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by doc993 View Post
Snip...

The supra is a desighn that I always keep coming back too, and I think I want to build one in the next couple years.
The plans are on the web and are free. Lots of people build bagged wing Supras. There are several in our club. The fly wonderfully! You will love it!

I have two of the Kennedy Composite molded Supras. They are just fantastic.
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Old Feb 28, 2012, 09:48 PM
3 Sons - Legos and Lift
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Grand Rapids, MI
Joined Apr 2004
565 Posts
Last night I came across these pictures from some guys out east. Rhode Island, I think. Nice field!

http://risoaringclub.org/gallery/album25

Tim
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Old Feb 29, 2012, 06:17 AM
Postcards From The Purple Edge
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United States, OK, Sand Springs
Joined May 2007
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2motheus View Post
Last night I came across these pictures from some guys out east. Rhode Island, I think. Nice field!

http://risoaringclub.org/gallery/album25

Tim
Yep, that's us. I'm the long-haired hippy dude doing the pulling. That was the first time we had the OneWinch at the club field.

I didn't know anyone else visited our website. Cool.

kendall
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Old Mar 25, 2012, 10:29 PM
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2Moth I used the one winch today .What a hoot!I got the longest flight of an un powered plane I've ever had.The Crimson flew great ,we also launched a spirit.
There is indeed a small learning curve, but not bad .I have not self launched yet .Glen did one but we had some problems with the belt .All in all a great day .Thanks doc.
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Old Mar 26, 2012, 10:47 AM
3 Sons - Legos and Lift
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Grand Rapids, MI
Joined Apr 2004
565 Posts
Thank you for the report, Doc.

Let me know if you have any specific questions. The belt setup is an inset on the main instructions diagram.

Hopefully as the weather improves we will be getting reports from others.

Tim
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Old Mar 31, 2012, 08:31 AM
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That was the problem thanks I thought I'd let you know that I posted a video of my maiden one winch flight on U tube and one of my friends put it on the crimson thread.The camera is on the plane.
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Old Apr 03, 2012, 09:46 PM
who has rabbit ears down
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United States, MN, Buffalo
Joined Jan 2007
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I gotta learn about all this!
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Old Apr 03, 2012, 10:09 PM
Proud member of LISF and ESL
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Captain,

Go to post 53 and again around 135 for field reports with videos starting around 159.
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Last edited by aeajr; Apr 04, 2012 at 01:25 PM.
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