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Old Jul 29, 2011, 03:25 PM
I fly, therefore, I crash!!!
SteveT.'s Avatar
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lestingoy View Post
My understanding is that we should begin shipping the refurbished controllers out early next week.

If you:
1. Have sent yours in &
2. Need it back ASAP for IRCHA and want to pick it up at IRCHA please email me directly and we'll get you on the list for that pickup.

If you plan to walk up with a dead soldier and trade it in at IRCHA please notify me as well so that we will have some clue as to how many we'll need there.

Thanks

Lee

lee@castlecreations.com
I may be wrong, but I believe Lee is saying...

that...controllers are shipping early next week to folks that have sent theirs in early (I.E..."me"), as I sent mine in the day of the advisory...and first come first served....

And.....#2....to those that "Need it back ASAP for IRCHA and want to pick it up at IRCHA please email me directly and we'll get you on the list for that pickup." Some of these folks may be competing and yes, they need their ESCs back, or they don't get to compete. (remember...."most" of us (including myself) are just people that are missing out on a bit of flying time...but I also have other planes to fly)

This is two separate statements. Unfortunately adding the & to the end of #1 makes it seem that the guys going to IRCHA have first priority. I don't believe this is the case...but then, quite truthfully, how many of those would their be..50?? In the grand scheme of things, I don't think this should really be a big issue.

The one statement, I am not particularly crazy about is that "corporate" customers, should get them first...but I guess that's how the world works.....

SteveT
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Old Jul 29, 2011, 04:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SteveTtoooo View Post
I may be wrong, but I believe Lee is saying...

that...controllers are shipping early next week to folks that have sent theirs in early (I.E..."me"), as I sent mine in the day of the advisory...and first come first served....

And.....#2....to those that "Need it back ASAP for IRCHA and want to pick it up at IRCHA please email me directly and we'll get you on the list for that pickup." Some of these folks may be competing and yes, they need their ESCs back, or they don't get to compete. (remember...."most" of us (including myself) are just people that are missing out on a bit of flying time...but I also have other planes to fly)

This is two separate statements. Unfortunately adding the & to the end of #1 makes it seem that the guys going to IRCHA have first priority. I don't believe this is the case...but then, quite truthfully, how many of those would their be..50?? In the grand scheme of things, I don't think this should really be a big issue.

The one statement, I am not particularly crazy about is that "corporate" customers, should get them first...but I guess that's how the world works.....

SteveT
You may be right Steve but really, I'm not sure as it could be taken in both ways.

But also keep in mind some of the earlier statements too that lead me to think of my conclusion such as ones discussing that they weren't even sure they would have controllers prior to this show, but if they did, they would will bring them there. As well as talks about 4-6 week waits due to the limited resources they have to do this, as well as perhaps not here, but elsewhere, comments that we weren't going to be getting used controllers but new ones with the new parts.

So when you factor in stuff like that too, to me it makes more sense that there are only going to have a certain number of these done by this show, and that they might be taking a certain amount of those that should go out to a sender, and taking them to this show instead.

At the end of the day, given all that has been said even if it is as you said, Castle has been getting told for many many months now that there is a problem with these by us and they took their time and finally have stepped up and done the right thing and did the testing to them that they should have done months ago and found that there is a problem, and so now because they didn't...is why they are doing something about it now.

And so even if it is only coincidental, now this show is coming up too and I would assume they don't want to look bad there as they sure seem to be placing a lot of importance on being sure anyone going there can get one which I can only assume is them not wanting to look someone in the face and saying they have to wait their turn.

But I'm sorry but if that is so important to them to be able to do this then they should have done this testing months ago and done the providing of these replacement back then under the first come first serve system before this show came to be, so that the ones who would need or want one for this show would have them.

The fact that they didn't do this isn't our fault but since they did wait, if they don't have enough controllers to fulfill the returns to the ones that they should be fulfilling prior to this show as they sent theirs in prior to it, then this isn't fair for that to be our loss.

At the end of the day all of us should be important and not only the ones going to IRCHA and so everyone should get their replacements in the order at which they were received.

Now if someone who is on the list that has already sent theirs in who doesn't want theirs back sooner wants to wait and pick it up at the show in person then that really is their choice and I don't see anything wrong with that, (although I think it is weird that are saying this is what they are offering as who would do that)

Also if by the day before the beginning of show all the people who sent theirs in for replacement have at least had their replacements boxed up and shipped have has this done, and then there is still a bunch left over, then that would OK to hand them out at the show.

But again, to take any that should be first going out to a sender and not send them one as they want to keep those as they want to offer those to walk-ins at this show to try to save face at this event is just not right.

Quite frankly I also think the whole thing is a bit unfair to the other show goers too who have nothing to do with this as think of all the people that are going to this show to speak to Castle and to have their products explained to them and might be looking for tech help who are going to have to stand and wait for that as dozens of people are clamoring to have a ESC replaced.

I know I certainly wouldn't be too pleased to have to wait for something that at the end of day, was due to the way Castle built their product.

About the only thing I think Castle should worry about at this show is providing the forms and info for the shipping returns so that people can send theirs in and get in the same cue that all the rest of us are doing.

Don't also forget that another reason Castle may be looking to do this is that they are probably figuring that this will save them a bunch of money on shipping too.

Which again, I don't want to bury Castle here anymore then they should but they are the ones who did all this and to look to cut a few bucks off the cost of doing this by bringing ESC's to this show before and instead of providing ones to the senders who sent theirs in sooner as they want to provide as much stock to show goers to save on shipping, then that isn't right either.

Just do the simple thing of only sending out what you get sent in, and do it in the order at which they were received.
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Old Jul 29, 2011, 07:00 PM
Ldm
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I checked mine today and I have the 120 ice new in bag , I guess this had to go back .
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Old Jul 29, 2011, 09:58 PM
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Please give Lee a break. He is trying to help everyone. Raking him over the coals doesn't really speed up the process.

How CC handles IRCHA vs mail in returns vs corporate customers seems to be a CC business decision from what I can tell. If you disagree with how CC practices business please go buy a different brand of ESC.

I appreciate CC standing behind their product. There are very few hobby related businesses that stand behind their products & services.

Doug B.
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Old Jul 29, 2011, 11:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dougbo View Post
Please give Lee a break. He is trying to help everyone. Raking him over the coals doesn't really speed up the process.

How CC handles IRCHA vs mail in returns vs corporate customers seems to be a CC business decision from what I can tell. If you disagree with how CC practices business please go buy a different brand of ESC.

I appreciate CC standing behind their product. There are very few hobby related businesses that stand behind their products & services.

Doug B.
+1

Well said.

Scott
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Old Jul 30, 2011, 12:26 AM
Ldm
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"How CC handles IRCHA vs mail in returns vs corporate customers seems to be a CC business decision from what I can tell. If you disagree with how CC practices business please go buy a different brand of esc"

I know that was directed at someone else but I have to say at this point and with my investment "new in bag" do I have a choice ?
I was not notified by my dealer at all , was lucky to find this thread and yes I am really glad there handeling it but with the investment that you pay for a 120 esc from castle you should expect just that they do handle it .
Customer servace is not defined by ontime and complete shipping , its defined by how you handle diversity.
I am glad I am not in a hurry to use my 120, and I sincerly hope I get a new repared one back as I am returning a totally new unopened 120 and that is what will determine who I purchase from in the future.
i am assuming we are out the freight cost of the return , as I have not investagated the process to date
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Old Jul 30, 2011, 06:41 AM
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United States, CT, Stamford
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dougbo View Post
Please give Lee a break. He is trying to help everyone. Raking him over the coals doesn't really speed up the process.

How CC handles IRCHA vs mail in returns vs corporate customers seems to be a CC business decision from what I can tell. If you disagree with how CC practices business please go buy a different brand of ESC.

I appreciate CC standing behind their product. There are very few hobby related businesses that stand behind their products & services.

Doug B.
First of all I want to state that it is not my intention to direct this in a personal way at Lee. I don't know him and don't suspect this is a by him only decision, but instead see him as an agent of Castle and therefore am making my statements to Castle as a company through him.

Second, I want it understood that at least for me, my beef here has nothing to do with how long this will take specifically.

When I first herd that it might be a 4 to 6 week wait for a returned ESC, of course I was disappointed but I felt I understood it as one, I knew at that time they needed to stock up on the parts and also figured they were going to get flooded with returns and I could just picture a room of about 5 guys with 2000 ESC's to retrofit an test thoroughly and thought, well that time line sounds understandable. In fact I wouldn't even mind them taking their time with that to be sure its all done right as the thought of those theoretical 5 guys banging out 100 ESC's each day just to get them back ASAP kinda scares me as no one more then me wants to see any of these fail as a result of Castle not taking their time to fix each one completely right.

Then as far as Castle handing this in any way they want, I also I want to remind people here that essentially in this case, the ESC's that are being sent back here are not their property anymore.

Yes with their property they have every right to do with it what they want, but that is not the case here. We bought these ESC's and we own them, not Castle. We are just sending them to them to have the defective issues that they built them with fixed with the complete understanding that they will be returned as soon as is practical, and while I know we are not getting back the exact same ESC, I feel this situation still this carries the same conditional expectation.

To possibly illustrate with a semi-relatable scenario, this would be like if Ford had discovered that they had put a defective engine in one of their brand new top of line cars and then issued a recall to have those engines replaced, so some Ford dealer in NYC got 100 of these cars two weeks before the NYC Auto show, so they fixed the 100 cars. But then 20 Ford executives and other VIP people Ford brought came in for the show and Ford wanted them to drive this model car to show it off. So instead of sending all 100 of those cars back to their owners, that pulled 20 of them to give to these people to drive for the week of this show.

Again, I know this is not a complete apples to apples comparison, but my point is that Castle has a duty to return the property that was supplied to them to be repaired to the owners of the property first, and that just because we sent these in does not mean that they are there's to do with as they want and that they especially shouldn't exploit that temporary possession to their advantage by choosing to use them to put on as best a showing as they can at some trade show by giving them to others instead of returning them to us (again I know were not getting the same ESC back but that is not the point).

Simply put and I've said this before, Castles dealings at some show is for them to deal with and if they don't have the equipment to provide for what they want to provide for, that is their faulting and they should not be using equipment we sent in for repairs to accomplish this.

So all I'm saying is if this is what they are planning to do I think that is pretty low and I think I have every right to tell them how I feel about this as I paid for the product I sent in to them and I own it and as such, I have the overriding decision on what is to be done with it once it has been repaired.

Lastly, I want to respond to one other statement in that we should be grateful that Castle is doing this at all in the first place. Believe it or not I was as big a fan of Castles as one could be up to this point as I know what they have done for this hobby and I know as far as offering this repair they are doing something good here too.

But I just also want to point out that we also as customers have been pretty darn good too as we have giving them a huge amount of leeway here as we all know that far bigger companies in this country have been sue to pieces for far less and to have people stand by Castle for many many months while ESC after ESC has done thousands of dollars of damage to peoples property and not one person has brought a suite against them I think says a lot about our patience and understanding and support.

So I think we certainly have done our part and should be given a little more respect then the attitude Lee gave in implying that we should be happy that they are doing this at all. And or that we shouldn't complain about how this is getting handled if indeed it is their intention to not send ESC's back in the order they are received as they are repaired so that they instead can be used as promotion items for them at some trade show.

Simple put Castle, fix these right and then send them out as they become available in the order in which they are received.
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Old Jul 30, 2011, 10:32 AM
Ldm
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Wb I think that(your post ) is a professional sumation with no drama and emotion.This is a business matter and emotion , breaks , drama do not even need to be spoken, we can all move on if the execution is handled as stated and nothing else will be needed.
Business is business its that simple and all matters concerning this issue seem to be moveing in that direction so lets hope we can keep it that way.
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Old Jul 30, 2011, 05:17 PM
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Well, I do not like my non-German interim ESC at all. Soft start is not soft start (the Furion 6 kicks about 90 degrees the instant the motor starts) and while it does power the motor, there's no way to set the proper frequency. The motor comes down way hotter than it ever did with my Castle. Because the governor on the ESC is funky, I had to regear. UGH--ly. There goes $200 plus out the window.

Moral of this is this... wait. Substitutions are just that... poor excuses for the real thing.

Scott
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Old Jul 30, 2011, 09:07 PM
Ldm
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scott , I am not going to get into a brand war, to each is own, I have been flying eletric for two years and i am newbee still learning .
When i was in fuel I remember OS was golden and much more expensive, thats is all I flew and one day I tried another less expensive brand and wala , the urban legend was gone .
Same with batterys , again nuff said from me , I buy on personal experience, the rest is is then determined at the field
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Old Jul 31, 2011, 01:11 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ldm View Post
scott , I am not going to get into a brand war, to each is own, I have been flying eletric for two years and i am newbee still learning .
When i was in fuel I remember OS was golden and much more expensive, thats is all I flew and one day I tried another less expensive brand and wala , the urban legend was gone .
Same with batterys , again nuff said from me , I buy on personal experience, the rest is is then determined at the field
I like Castle stuff. That's my experience. I really missed the flexibility and settings in the non-German made ESC that I get in Castle Link. It's like this... "You don't know what you've got 'till it's gone"... and that's no Cinderella story.

Scott
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Old Jul 31, 2011, 07:03 PM
Lee Estingoy
Overland Park, Kansas, United States
Joined May 2003
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I'm going to regret this

One more try.

1. We want to turn EVERYBODY's controllers around as quickly as possible.
2. We are making a production run of totally new controllers such that we can swap new ones for the ones that are sent in to us WITHOUT the delay of waiting for our repair techs to retool the ones that we receive in the mail. This production run exceeds by quite a bit the number of controllers going out to our OEM customers, so please, no hurt feelings that we are favoring anyone.
3. There are likely to be quite a few controllers that come back that we cannot economically modify as the cases are glued as are the boards. Sure we can get them apart, but they may not be in a condition to reuse them once they come apart. So, these will get replaced by another controller.
4. It is likely that the turnaround will take much less than 4 to 6 weeks.

We are doing this to improve your controller and give you a better RC experience overall. Give us a chance. My bet is that this will go pretty smoothly for all.

Thanks

Lee
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Old Jul 31, 2011, 07:20 PM
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Lee,

I appreciate your honesty and efforts to satisfy as many customers as possible. Thank you for the update.

Doug B.
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Old Jul 31, 2011, 07:24 PM
I fly, therefore, I crash!!!
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San Jose, CA
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Thank you Lee...

I had already decided to be quite, and not make any more comments, and this just re-enforces that....

And besides, it's not like I don't have more planes to fly, and BTW, the majority of which have Castle ESCs, and BEC PROs in...

Thanks again....

Steve Tillman (AKA... SteveT)
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Old Jul 31, 2011, 07:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lestingoy View Post
One more try.

1. We want to turn EVERYBODY's controllers around as quickly as possible.
2. We are making a production run of totally new controllers such that we can swap new ones for the ones that are sent in to us WITHOUT the delay of waiting for our repair techs to retool the ones that we receive in the mail. This production run exceeds by quite a bit the number of controllers going out to our OEM customers, so please, no hurt feelings that we are favoring anyone.
3. There are likely to be quite a few controllers that come back that we cannot economically modify as the cases are glued as are the boards. Sure we can get them apart, but they may not be in a condition to reuse them once they come apart. So, these will get replaced by another controller.
4. It is likely that the turnaround will take much less than 4 to 6 weeks.

We are doing this to improve your controller and give you a better RC experience overall. Give us a chance. My bet is that this will go pretty smoothly for all.

Thanks

Lee
I appreciate your comments Lee and I give you credit for taking the time and making a Sunday post here, but just tell me/us just one thing.

Tell me you are not going to be taking the controllers you have already gotten an modifying them and then holding them for stock instead of sending them right back out to the senders all so you can hand them out to others at this show.

Ergo if you have any stock at this show and anyone other then ones that have arranged to pick theirs up there are getting one, that means that all the other senders who have sent in ones prior to this show who are not going to it will already have a controller modified and on the way to them, correct?
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