Originally Posted by ChopperJack

I know this sounds very radical but I've been wondering about the possibility of reducing the puffiness on batteries that are otherwise good. My thought is to very carefully make a very small pin hole to bleed off the hydrogen gas then use something to seal the hole. Do you think this would do any good?

I have to tell you jack, if you do that it will and least catch fire or at worst explode, don't ask how I know. Hey, I just wanted to relive a little puffiness. Now I take all my old puffed batteries out and shoot them to watch them burn.

Originally Posted by barnstorm100

I have to tell you jack, if you do that it will and least catch fire or at worst explode, don't ask how I know. Hey, I just wanted to relive a little puffiness. Now I take all my old puffed batteries out and shoot them to watch them burn.

I discharge my puffies to zero so I can send them to INMETCO, the recycling facility in New Jersey. I took one apart the other day 'cause that's the kind of idiot I am - I just have to get some idea of how they are made, it's my obsession. Anyway, without voltage, the battery is safe. Any near by arcs or sparks would be the fly in the ointment or the hydrogen as it were. I'm considering doing a post on the anatomy of a lipo.

Anyway, I am considering an extremely small hole at the highest point in the puff bubble then seal the hole with something permanent, cool, fast drying, plastic friendly and dries real flat. Maybe some sort of five minute epoxy would not react with the hydrogen or get too hot. Maybe I could use hot melt glue - just kidding.

When you shoot them, are the batteries fully charged and how big is the explosion? I am assuming the compression caused by the bullet adds to the volatility. I may want to start using lipos for shooting practice and maybe to sight my scope in at 1000 yards.

Here you go kdean, a blast from the past:

"customer reported the parcel was rejected by customs, wants refund, waiting for parcel's return
Cheryl 10/02/12

parcel will be returned
handling fee $37.47
echo 23/2/12

Parcel returned to warehouse
meow 3/3/2012

PARCEL RETURN REASON: Refused****
Requires Bonus Point Adjustment

Parcel Returned 3/03/2012 9:53:12 AM:8137:1
Parcel Returned 3/03/2012 9:53:15 AM:11944:1
Parcel Returned 3/03/2012 9:53:19 AM:10901:1
Parcel Returned 3/03/2012 9:53:31 AM:11158:3
Parcel Returned 3/03/2012 9:54:41 AM:9299:1
Parcel Returned 3/03/2012 9:54:58 AM:11965:1
Parcel Returned 3/03/2012 9:55:02 AM:4319:1
Parcel Returned 3/03/2012 9:55:07 AM:0662:1
Parcel Returned 3/03/2012 9:55:12 AM:19612:1
Parcel Returned 3/03/2012 9:55:32 AM:6607:3
Parcel Returned 3/03/2012 9:55:35 AM:10113:1
Parcel Returned 3/03/2012 9:59:34 AM:12612:1
Parcel Returned 3/03/2012 10:01:55 AM:10561:1

items have been put back to warehouse
request partial refund of $266.19-$36.54(shipping fee)-$37.47 (handling fee)=$192.18
Cheryl 10/03/12

Request Refund, Transaction over 60 days. Will pass to Nino.
echo 13/3/12"

I'm expecting at least two weeks deliberation, maybe more. I can only trust they will do the right thing (well, mostly right) and return the remainder of my money after they have satisfied their need for bureaucratic procedure of course.

I've installed the static wire on it similar to what KDean has done to his 500. I really think there's something else going on maybe on the gyro or the camera that's part of the KDS system. I'm tempted to rip it all out and get a different system to try out and see if that would make any changes on the characteristics of it's flight..

Originally Posted by barnstorm100

I know you've read all the static about static but if your 600 has a belt it really sounds like static. It sounds like its acting the same way mine did before grounding. Look back at the video I posted and check out the way the heli acted.

I worked for Makita power tools for 17 years in different positions(mostly sitting down). Can you imagine the collection of tools. I have one room in the house thats all tools and I don't even want to think about the garage. I have probably 10 chain saws, all different sizes, table saws, compressors of all sizes, generators, jack hammers. Every different cordless drill they made(probably all need batteries now) . One day I going to have a garage sale.

Originally Posted by ChopperJack

I know this sounds very radical but I've been wondering about the possibility of reducing the puffiness on batteries that are otherwise good. My thought is to very carefully make a very small pin hole to bleed off the hydrogen gas then use something to seal the hole. Do you think this would do any good?

I saw a vid on youtube with a guy doing the pin and seal with a lipo to get the puffy out.

Originally Posted by kdean

I saw a vid on youtube with a guy doing the pin and seal with a lipo to get the puffy out.

Maybe if I search YouTube I can find a video of a guy whose hair is on fire - just kidding!

Im sure thats there too.

Originally Posted by kdean

Im sure thats there too.

And if not then maybe Jack can video himself taking that lipo apart, and then post that vid he was talking about

Btw I went ahead and ordered three 2200mah 30c turnigy batts from hobbyking, but I paid a few extra bucks to get them from the USA warehouse so hopefully they show up

Good deal, they will.

I took a discharged lipo apart last week, no problem. I put a pin hole in one cell of a discharged 2S lipo yesterday then used scotch tape to seal the hole. I wanted to see if it will puff back up. I doubt it will. I've been tempted to light a discharged cell after puncturing it to see if it will flame up. I don't really have to do that though because I already know hydrogen will burn and/or explode. The problem with puncturing a charged cell, other than the possibility of explosion, is sealing the hole. You don't want hydrogen leaking out while flying a heli.

I read a real good .pdf yesterday about lipo storage. It is exactly backwards from what I am used to. It said store them at 3.85 volts. My charger will discharge batteries. I always wondered why I would need that feature. Now I know. Also, it said lipo's degrade with age. They don't really care about how many times they have been charged. I am sure a lipo will last longer if it is stored correctly. They are like people, eventually they will get weak and die no matter what you do. Or, in this case, they will get puffy. You might be able to remove the puffy but the battery is telling you something. I doubt removing the excess hydrogen will make the battery last any longer - but, I could be wrong, I've been wrong before.

Also, yesterday, I used my spectrum analyzer at work to check out the HK-600 static issue. Unfortunately, my analyzer will only go up to .999 GHz (999 MHz). That means there is a lot of frequency territory I couldn't explore from .9 GHz to 2.4 GHz. I wrapped a "sniffer" wire around the tail. This wire went to the antenna port on the analyzer. I turned the heli up to about 70 per cent throttle. I did pick up a band of static at about 890 MHz which was about 20 or so MHz wide. I couldn't find anything anywhere else.

http://www.utahflyers.org/video-main...1-lipo-fires-1

Originally Posted by kdean

I got a 2200mah 30-40c 3s as part of a deal for the tarot 450pro frame. It was puffed when i got it and i don't know what kind of torture its been through, but it still holds a charge and gives good flight performance.

This is a comment I have seen quite a bit and experienced myself. Even though a lipo is puffed, it still works well. I did a little more research and it dawned on me that these RC lipo batteries are somewhat unique in the battery world in terms of packaging.

One of the advantages of this type battery is that it doesn't have to fit in a metal can like other batteries. However, the metal can has a vent which allows the battery to burp so to speak. This is where our lipo packaging lets us down. Gas build up is normal for a battery as it ages. Not having a vent to let the gas out is not normal except within the realms of the RC hobby. I am sure the hermetic seal would get into the realm of intrinsic safety operating a hydrogen burping lipo in a hot environment close to arcs and sparks of carbon brushed motors.

Without a capacity tester, it is difficult for me to say a puffy lipo is good. About all I have to go on is my own experience and comments like the above.

Also, some pictures of Li-Ion cells demonstrating the vent.

Originally Posted by ChopperJack

Good deal, they will.

I took a discharged lipo apart last week, no problem. I put a pin hole in one cell of a discharged 2S lipo yesterday then used scotch tape to seal the hole. I wanted to see if it will puff back up. I doubt it will. I've been tempted to light a discharged cell after puncturing it to see if it will flame up. I don't really have to do that though because I already know hydrogen will burn and/or explode. The problem with puncturing a charged cell, o leaking out while flying a heli.
ther than the possibility of explosion, is sealing the hole. You don't want hydrogen
I read a real good .pdf yesterday about lipo storage. It is exactly backwards from what I am used to. It said store them at 3.85 volts. My charger will discharge batteries. I always wondered why I would need that feature. Now I know. Also, it said lipo's degrade with age. They don't really care about how many times they have been charged. I am sure a lipo will last longer if it is stored correctly. They are like people, eventually they will get weak and die no matter what you do. Or, in this case, they will get puffy. You might be able to remove the puffy but the battery is telling you something. I doubt removing the excess hydrogen will make the battery last any longer - but, I could be wrong, I've been wrong before.

Also, yesterday, I used my spectrum analyzer at work to check out the HK-600 static issue. Unfortunately, my analyzer will only go up to .999 GHz (999 MHz). That means there is a lot of frequency territory I couldn't explore from .9 GHz to 2.4 GHz. I wrapped a "sniffer" wire around the tail. This wire went to the antenna port on the analyzer. I turned the heli up to about 70 per cent throttle. I did pick up a band of static at about 890 MHz which was about 20 or so MHz wide. I couldn't find anything anywhere else.

Well I'm storing all my lipos at storage voltage now. I've always kept them fully charged before. It was handy to grab a battery when I had a minute to fly.
How long is it ok to have them fully charged? I had a feeling that it was just age of the batteries and not the charge count.
I tried to have at least some charge in my old batteries before shooting them. They put off a unique scent that almost smells good. I know the gas is probably deadly. Is that the hydrogen that smells like that or is it some other chemicals?

Originally Posted by barnstorm100

Well I'm storing all my lipos at storage voltage now. I've always kept them fully charged before. It was handy to grab a battery when I had a minute to fly.
How long is it ok to have them fully charged? I had a feeling that it was just age of the batteries and not the charge count.
I tried to have at least some charge in my old batteries before shooting them. They put off a unique scent that almost smells good. I know the gas is probably deadly. Is that the hydrogen that smells like that or is it some other chemicals?

There is another chemical which will cling to your skin - I forget the name of it but it got my attention as to something I need to stay clear of.

http://www.mpoweruk.com/lithiumS.htm

Thanks for link. All the info and more is out there on everything these days.

Originally Posted by barnstorm100

Thanks for link. All the info and more is out there on everything these days.

I suppose in the hot summer the subject gravitates to burned up brushed motors and conversion to brushless. In winter it is lipo storage and puff. I too did not realize lipo's don't need to sit around for weeks at full voltage - my bad. I have lowered all of them to 3.8 volts per cell thanks to a "storage" feature on my charger that does that automatically. I put one lipo in the fridge and puff went away. No telling what kind of damage I am doing lowering the temperature like that.

I think I'm going to start shopping for a charger / analyzer that will tell me battery capacity. Hobby King will probably have the best deal.