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Old Jan 09, 2013, 09:11 AM
Fly Naked !
MARCOELDRAGON's Avatar
Waynesboro VA USA
Joined Dec 2010
1,137 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by dth7 View Post
Wedoitall, I have a couple questions to bring us back to earth since this issue is in the stratosphere by now.
1. Is your rudder working?
2. Are you able to do all the maneuvers you want to do?
3. Are you able to achieve the throws you want using all the means necessary (mechanical and/ or radio)?
3. If yes to one and two are you tired of dealing with this yet and just want to fly this bad boy?
Pardon the sarcasm but I think we have all beat this thing to death and you have been diligently doing all the checks (i feel bad that you are wasting good flying time). It was bought pre built and I think you said it is flying nicely. Fly it, learn and have fun man! Take it from a former triple A personality (now shifting to B, B+). If it does what you want don't sweat the little stuff and Huck the hell out of that thing. Get anal (if you want to) with your "spare" when you will have the building control.
Enjoy.
Amen + 1
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Old Jan 09, 2013, 09:22 AM
3d NOOBular
3DNater's Avatar
USA, UT, St George
Joined Aug 2010
7,822 Posts
I agree there is point where you say "good enough" and just go fly it. But, setup does make all the difference in the world on how it flies. My "good enough" bar has been being raised rather than lowered but it sounds like maybe I come from the opposite end of the spectrum Ultimately, if it flies good you did it right and shouldn't sweat it anymore.
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Old Jan 09, 2013, 09:26 AM
Endangered User
MattLarson29's Avatar
United States, FL, Casselberry
Joined Jul 2002
1,301 Posts
On the 3DHS podcast, the guys talk about setup, and particularly about not getting hyper about it. They took an airframe, had Joe Smith fly a 3d routine with it, and then started messing it up to see what difference it made in the flight characteristics. They put in a spacer and spaced one wing an inch off the fuse - made no difference. Removed 1/2 a horizontal stab - made no difference. Etc.

The point is that the airframe is going to fly just fine with minor irregularities. So spend the time practicing that you would have spent worrying about a 5mm off center stab, and you'll be better for it....
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Old Jan 09, 2013, 10:15 AM
Fly it 'till it breaks.
Motojunk's Avatar
United States, CA, Los Angeles
Joined May 2011
605 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by MattLarson29 View Post
On the 3DHS podcast, the guys talk about setup, and particularly about not getting hyper about it. They took an airframe, had Joe Smith fly a 3d routine with it, and then started messing it up to see what difference it made in the flight characteristics. They put in a spacer and spaced one wing an inch off the fuse - made no difference. Removed 1/2 a horizontal stab - made no difference. Etc.

The point is that the airframe is going to fly just fine with minor irregularities. So spend the time practicing that you would have spent worrying about a 5mm off center stab, and you'll be better for it....
I respectfully disagree. The better your plane flies, the easier it is to learn. Having a plane with irregularities means you're not simply telling the plane where to go, you're fighting it to get to actually do what you want. I started flying using a Parkzone Extra 300, and I guarantee my skill would have advanced much quicker if it wasn't flexing and changing it's flight characteristics all the time.

I'm finally almost 2 years into this hobby and I can tell you from experience that having your plane set up as good as possible will only reward you with it being able to perform as awesome as it truly should while allowing you to learn with a consistent performance. Will it fly with minor issues? Sure. But, you'll have a harder time trying to get the plane to do exactly what you want. When you're free from fighting the plane trying to get it to do what you want, you can focus more on actually flying how you want(hope that makes sense).

IMO if you're looking to just go fly, it really doesn't matter as much. But if you're really trying to learn new stuff and actually progress your flying skills, a meticulous setup is very much indeed an important element not to skimp on.
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Old Jan 09, 2013, 10:25 AM
Back in the hobby- ALL in!
dth7's Avatar
United States, NH, Greenland
Joined Feb 2012
968 Posts
I'm not downplaying general good setup. In fact, I'm definitely in that camp. Once the controls are centered (mechanically, us trim if needed, etc) and CG is set (really number one IMHO) then take care of any coupling issues (again you can go nuts here too so watch out!). Then fly fly fly. Every time you go up you will have a new,different set of variables to deal with so you must learn to put the thing where you want it. No matter how fantastic it gets set up we still have to fly it. Line from The Right Stuff- "... Some peckerwood has to bring it up and some peckerwood has to land it and that peckerwood is called a-pilot..." Applies here too! Speaking of which, I'm going flying. See ya for now.
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Old Jan 09, 2013, 10:34 AM
Back in the hobby- ALL in!
dth7's Avatar
United States, NH, Greenland
Joined Feb 2012
968 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Motojunk View Post
I respectfully disagree. The better your plane flies, the easier it is to learn. Having a plane with irregularities means you're not simply telling the plane where to go, you're fighting it to get to actually do what you want. I started flying using a Parkzone Extra 300, and I guarantee my skill would have advanced much quicker if it wasn't flexing and changing it's flight characteristics all the time.

I'm finally almost 2 years into this hobby and I can tell you from experience that having your plane set up as good as possible will only reward you with it being able to perform as awesome as it truly should while allowing you to learn with a consistent performance. Will it fly with minor issues? Sure. But, you'll have a harder time trying to get the plane to do exactly what you want. When you're free from fighting the plane trying to get it to do what you want, you can focus more on actually flying how you want(hope that makes sense).

IMO if you're looking to just go fly, it really doesn't matter as much. But if you're really trying to learn new stuff and actually progress your flying skills, a meticulous setup is very much indeed an important element not to skimp on.
Oh, I don't think anyone is arguing your point at all. You can't argue with what you are saying, it's true. However, when it comes to beating a dead setup horse you have to decide if "this" particular airframe (this meaning whatever one you are trying to tweak) is worth any more time. That was really my point. I would rank setup priority as 1. Construction symmetry. 2. Control surface alignment. 3. Servo performance and throw adjustment. 4. CG. 5. Tx adjustment. 6. Motor/ Engine performance. MHO.
Ok muf said for me. Going flyin.
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Old Jan 09, 2013, 02:08 PM
Registered User
wedoitall's Avatar
United States, WV, Clay
Joined Sep 2012
3,050 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by brathanke View Post
I agree there is point where you say "good enough" and just go fly it. But, setup does make all the difference in the world on how it flies. My "good enough" bar has been being raised rather than lowered but it sounds like maybe I come from the opposite end of the spectrum Ultimately, if it flies good you did it right and shouldn't sweat it anymore.
oh ive been flying the guts out of it so far. just at night time im trying to tweak setup even better. think ive read joe smith say spend the time on setup and it will pay in the long run. so far everything ive thrown at it, it does. KE i had a problem but i think that was very aft cg(dumb on my part).

i totally agree with just flying it and i know im a noob but i also like being geeky with everything i do. im just trying to learn everything i can as fast as i can. i have to "catch up" with you guys
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Old Jan 09, 2013, 02:35 PM
Back in the hobby- ALL in!
dth7's Avatar
United States, NH, Greenland
Joined Feb 2012
968 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by wedoitall View Post
oh ive been flying the guts out of it so far. just at night time im trying to tweak setup even better. think ive read joe smith say spend the time on setup and it will pay in the long run. so far everything ive thrown at it, it does. KE i had a problem but i think that was very aft cg(dumb on my part).

i totally agree with just flying it and i know im a noob but i also like being geeky with everything i do. im just trying to learn everything i can as fast as i can. i have to "catch up" with you guys
Nothing wrong with striving for perfection. It's not a race! We are all having much more than our money's worth of fun with this airframe for sure. I'm certainly enjoying flying it off of snow. The skis add a little weight and a little lift so it feels even more stable.

Short topic off ramp-
Had to trash two lipos today. Now that I have an iCharger I'm measuring internal resistance. I had one at + 100mOhms for the pack. I'm running the bad ones in my foam Tech One Yak. Another was +70 mOhms. It still does ok for sport flying and harriers but no more punch.
Do you guys have a number that you use for when to trash the pack? Mine seems to be 20-30 mOhms/ cell for becoming unreliable for 3D.

I may have asked this all ready, sorry. I know I posted it but I think it's at another site. Wanted your opinions in IR.
thanks.
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Old Jan 09, 2013, 03:06 PM
Registered User
United Kingdom, London
Joined Jul 2011
2,243 Posts
im more like for heat... im thinking the hotter the pack, the more strain on it... if pack gets unusually hot, im not going to use it... (trashed like 5 1550mah gens aces)...

you guys lucky... my edge sits in customs since the end of last year... good thing i have ef laser and big edge to fly...
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Old Jan 09, 2013, 03:50 PM
I fly, therefore, I crash!!!
SteveT.'s Avatar
San Jose, CA
Joined Jan 2008
25,842 Posts
That's ok...we can keep.....





SteveT
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Old Jan 09, 2013, 03:53 PM
Back in the hobby- ALL in!
dth7's Avatar
United States, NH, Greenland
Joined Feb 2012
968 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by SteveT. View Post
That's ok...we can keep.....





SteveT
Was that for me? Did I ask the IR question here? Some timers?
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Old Jan 09, 2013, 03:58 PM
I fly, therefore, I crash!!!
SteveT.'s Avatar
San Jose, CA
Joined Jan 2008
25,842 Posts
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Originally Posted by dth7 View Post
Was that for me? Did I ask the IR question here? Some timers?
Just joking my friend....hence the smileys.....

SteveT
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Old Jan 09, 2013, 04:04 PM
Gone Huckin'
turnerm's Avatar
Charlotte, NC
Joined Jan 2011
9,256 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by wedoitall View Post
oh ive been flying the guts out of it so far. just at night time im trying to tweak setup even better. think ive read joe smith say spend the time on setup and it will pay in the long run. so far everything ive thrown at it, it does. KE i had a problem but i think that was very aft cg(dumb on my part).

i totally agree with just flying it and i know im a noob but i also like being geeky with everything i do. im just trying to learn everything i can as fast as i can. i have to "catch up" with you guys
Absolutely agree on the last part! If you ENJOY digging into the setup then by all means do it man. This hobby is about having fun and learning. I can honestly say that you'll never worsen your flying experience by spending extra time on your setup (unless you're expirementing and that's a different story all together).
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Old Jan 09, 2013, 04:07 PM
I fly, therefore, I crash!!!
SteveT.'s Avatar
San Jose, CA
Joined Jan 2008
25,842 Posts
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Originally Posted by turnerm View Post
Absolutely agree on the last part! If you ENJOY digging into the setup then by all means do it man. This hobby is about having fun and learning. I can honestly say that you'll never worsen your flying experience by spending extra time on your setup (unless you're expirementing and that's a different story all together).
Agree 1,000,000%

SteveT
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Old Jan 09, 2013, 04:33 PM
Registered User
wedoitall's Avatar
United States, WV, Clay
Joined Sep 2012
3,050 Posts
reversing the arm gave it alil more so i have 45 and 43 i guess i can live with that for now hehe. thanks for all the help fellers. all the info that you guys posted will help me with future planes also. took notes and made myself a checklist.
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