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Old Jul 09, 2011, 07:46 PM
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Question
How does a pattern ship differ from a 3d plane?

How does a pattern ship differ from a 3d plane?
I understand the flying style but have no experience with the airframe.

Can a pattern plane do what a 3d plane does or vice versa?

Enquiring minds need to know.
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Old Jul 09, 2011, 08:43 PM
Hope is not a Strategy
Lojik's Avatar
Australia, VIC, Caroline Springs
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The Major differences are:

Pattern:
Smaller control surfaces, designed specifically for high speed or moderate speed aerobatics with precision in mind
low or zero flutter on the control surfaces at speeds
Pattern aircraft used for pattern competition are limited in there size and weight
control movements on a pattern plane are designed to be modest to slight

3D:
Larger control surfaces designed to give full control of the plane a stall or below speeds, using prop wash and very slow speed requires the larger surface to function well
flutter possible at high speeds depending on design.
3D competition is generally more open
control movements on a 3D plane are designed to be fast and wide

There is some cross-over these days, take a look at the Vyper designed by 3DHS, it mixes elements of the above so that a "Pattern" plane can perform 3D aerobatics and vica-versa, the design has been met with great enthusiasm and great reviews.

"Can a pattern plane do what a 3d plane does or vice versa?"
The simple answer is, Yes.

The complicated answer is:
A Pattern plane can perform 3D aerobatics with practice but some maneuvers will be hard to do correctly.
A 3D plane can perform Pattern aerobatics with practice but some maneuvers will be hard to do correctly.
A hybrid would perform both Pattern and 3D better than dedicated models trying to fly the opposite category
A dedicated machine will perform its dedicated task better than a Hybrid
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Old Jul 10, 2011, 06:07 AM
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Traditionally pattern planes also tend to be heavier with higher wing loading. This makes them less suitable for low speed work and generally less able to do very tight manoeuvres.. But it does make them more smooth and steady in flight and less effected by wind gusts and turbulence.

Steve
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Old Jul 10, 2011, 11:54 AM
TEAM EXTREME FLIGHT
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USA, FL, Largo
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lojik View Post
A dedicated machine will perform its dedicated task better than a Hybrid
Well, I love a good pattern plane, and I love a good 3D machine. Having a plane that can do both has been too good to be true....until lately.

The hybrids are getting to be so good that they can pretty much do it all and not give away very much on either end. Airframe development has been so rapid the last few years that you can hardly build and crash them fast enough to keep up with what's new and improved.

The Extreme Flight EXP series are essentially hybrids that look like scale planes and they do awesome 3D and solid precision. Check my blog for flight details on each one. For example, the Extra does it all, but it is biased more toward precision. The Edge does it all, but is biased more toward 3D. The MXS is sort of in the middle of those two, so there is a plane to suit everyone's style or preferance.

I'm really looking forward to the new Extreme Flight Pantera EXP (foreground). That one is a true hybrid that makes no pretense about being a scale plane. In fact, it looks a lot like the Vanquish, which has beautiful pattern lines. I think the Pantera is probably not going to give up anything, anywhere, to any other aircraft.


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Old Jul 10, 2011, 12:09 PM
TEAM EXTREME FLIGHT
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Something else........... when I got back into flying in 2005, 3D wasn't much more than a bunch of hovering around. Some guys were doing extreme stuff, but nothing like what we see today. It was airframe development that made it all possible, and it has changed the way we fly 3D.

In fact, 3D isn't even 3D anymore. Most of us have developed our own flying styles to take advantage of the more capable airframes. For one thing, they are much tougher and can take violent manuevers, whereas a few short years ago I completely exploded a plane in a blender. Now we do those at full throttle and terminal velocity.

The planes do better 3D because wing rock has been virtually eliminated on most designs from the elite manufacturers. The planes hover better and they harrier much better, and 3D has never been easier.

Most planes from top makers will also do at least respectable precision work. With the current state of airframe development there is no need to tailor a plane so much toward 3D that it makes for sloppy precision work. The planes are so good now that they can pretty much do it all.

The newer planes are so good that I think pretty soon we will stop talking about 3D and we will start using a more correct term to describe what we are doing..... extreme aerobatics.
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Old Jul 10, 2011, 07:17 PM
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Is there a current hybrid on the market that does both well? Or as Doc has coined "extreme aerobatics".
I am really in the market for an airframe I can rock out with a .10-.15 size electric motor, and will be good for precision practice.
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Old Jul 10, 2011, 07:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JIMBOJONES View Post
Is there a current hybrid on the market that does both well? Or as Doc has coined "extreme aerobatics".
All of the EXP series planes fly very hybrid like. Probably the most hybrid like is the MXS. It gives away very little on either end of the spectrum. You can read about all of them on my blog. I'be flown them all on both 3s and 4s.

I don't know when the Pantera will be available, but that one is going to blow the lid of of things, and I am sure it's going to set a new standard. I am really, really looking forward to that plane.

Quote:
I am really in the market for an airframe I can rock out with a .10-.15 size electric motor, and will be good for precision practice.
Another good hybrid is the Vanquish, though it is more of a precision plane. It will do 3D, but it is much happier craving big lines. It's fast as hell, and it's a very sweet flying plane.
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Old Jul 11, 2011, 12:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JIMBOJONES View Post
Is there a current hybrid on the market that does both well? Or as Doc has coined "extreme aerobatics".
I am really in the market for an airframe I can rock out with a .10-.15 size electric motor, and will be good for precision practice.
the Vyper... hybrids pattern and 3D like nothing else on the market, period. the 65" is the king of them, but larger than what you're looking for... but... the 46" Vyper has had a revision and an update and has returned as the 48" Vyper. The container has arrived, and this batch is in the process of being shipped to customers right now.


...the plane is amazing. The stability at speed (pattern) is pretty much unrivaled as the taper/sweep on the wing spreads the pressure across the chord and the plane locks in like every other pattern plane. Without the taper/sweep the plane has more pitch sensitivity which loses some of its pattern prowess (like an Edge... which is crazy awesome at 3D). Slow a Vyper down, huge control surfaces and other particulars come into play and you can throw it around like a 3D beast. it simply rocks.
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Old Jul 11, 2011, 12:54 PM
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3D Hobby Shop 48" Super Vyper (5 min 55 sec)


48" 3DhobbyShop Super Vyper (3 min 35 sec)



...and if you ever feel like stepping up to the big one, more awesomeness awaits...

ArronSEFF01.wmv (7 min 24 sec)
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Old Jul 11, 2011, 01:17 PM
Facts, Logic, 3D
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I myself have found that after my short three years of flying, I've experience the best of both worlds.

I've flown pattern with a 60" heavy Aeroworks Edge 540T with a .90 size glow four stroke, to 3D with a floaty Great Planes U-Can-Do, to the best of the best IMAC planes (Godfrey Extra 300 and Laser 200), to the high performance aircraft I am flying now.

I've found found that when you have the right airplane, you can easily do both pattern and 3D, and you don't technically need a "hybrid" type to do it with. Whether or not you like the looks of a hybrid is your personal opinion, but I personally want my plane to look like a full scale. My favorite plane so far for this size range (out of the almost 100 planes I've flown) has got to be the 48" Extreme Flight Extra 300 EXP. It has a long moment, and when setup right, will do amazing pattern. It draws beautiful pattern lines big enough to take first place in Basic IMAC (only because it's not 1/4 scale so can't enter anything else... but it could easily perform any maneuver in current IMAC flawlessly with the right pilot).

I personally like a mix of 3D and pattern... or as Doc said, "Extreme Aerobatics" and pattern. Here's my most recent video, and if you check out my youtube channel, you will find other videos of my Extra. It does beautiful slow rolls, point rolls, snap rolls... does big pattern quality loops and cuban eights... can fly fast... but then flip the switch to high rates and you have an amazing 3D performer that will leave most other planes in the dust.

Here's the video... please excuse the quality. It's decent, but not spectacular.

Extreme Flight Extra 300 EXP_Runnin' Outta Names (6 min 3 sec)


--Tom K.
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Old Jul 11, 2011, 01:25 PM
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nothing like a conversation built on the exaggerated use of superlatives ...

...anyways... in the end, buy what you like the look of, or watched the videos and enjoyed the flying. With a quality airframe it's hard to go wrong, and unless you're really tuned into the specifics of a well refined airframe it's basically splitting hairs. If you like a plane to look like a full size plane, then you'll get an Extra or a Slick (Slicks are available in a smaller size again and are amazing all-rounders)... if you want a plane that doesn't care about looking like a full size plane you can play with a patternship hybrid that simply outclasses the rest at higher speeds.
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Old Jul 11, 2011, 04:48 PM
Irg
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+1 for the vyper.

and a shameless video plug. this is the 65 but there is nothing happening that the 48 couldn't do:
vyper over red hook (7 min 49 sec)


oh and no superlatives
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Old Jul 13, 2011, 07:07 AM
Hope is not a Strategy
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Australia, VIC, Caroline Springs
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Irg View Post

oh and no superlatives
lol, sounds like an expensive laxative

I agree with KM, buy what you like the look of, the MXS from Extreme or the Vyper from 3DHS you can't go wrong with.
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Old Jul 13, 2011, 11:53 AM
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Thank you for all the help of deciphering the information.
I haven’t made a final decision, but I can say that there are two definite front runners.

It will basically boil down to Service, Price, & Features.

I know many will usually list the pricing as first and foremost, but I am “Old school” when it comes to customer service, and the “Warm fuzzy feeling” of a vendor you trust still means a lot to me.
Complete pricing is second most important, such as what is the bottom line for outfitting a model with the manufacturers recommended equipment.
Features in this instance seem to be inline with one another so either way I feel as if I cannot go wrong.

Oh the decisions.
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Old Jul 13, 2011, 11:54 AM
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I own the 65" Vyper and the Extreme Flight 48" Edge. They are both superb planes, both can fly precision and 3-D very well. I can't compare them against each other since they are different sizes and its like comparing apples to oranges. But, I take them both to the field for each flying session. I've owned the previous generation of 'pure 3D' planes and the Vyper and Edge beat them all in terms of stability across a wide speed range. I'd say get whatever looks cooler to you, you really can't go wrong.
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