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Old Jun 11, 2012, 03:04 PM
Father of Fr3aK, DLG Pilot
tom43004's Avatar
USA, OH, Worthington
Joined May 2002
6,733 Posts
Mike,

I think you have a unique perspective as a guy who obviously has good thumbs from other disciplines of RC but is fairly new to competitive DLG flying. You have owned a Taboo and a Blaster, and since you haven't done alot of competitive DLG work, you have more of an unbiased opinion about how you do or don't like the ship. The chances are good that you give real observation based feedback without any (conscious or unconscious) bias.

I will say that I have some bias so you always must take my opinions as exactly that... but I also admit my mistakes and have produced a couple of real turds in the past. My Jingo 1 airplane that I flew in Florida three years ago was terrible as a competitive DLG. It was a great trainer but just didn't perform well. I think you have to have some failures to understand how good the successes are.
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Old Jun 11, 2012, 03:35 PM
Time for me to Fly...
Mr. Wiz's Avatar
United States, MI, Fenton
Joined Jan 2000
8,603 Posts
Well, I just got my B3 back in the air yesterday (Thanks Chris for the repair work) so my comparison between the two is fairly fresh. Here are some random thoughts without placing them in any order.

The Fr3aK launches higher. No question. I'll bet I get close to 15-20' higher with my Fr3Ak than my B3. The Fr3ak is easier for me to fly smoothly. That could be setup as much as anything but the Fr3aK is a little faster so I think it stands to reason it is smoother in choppy air. I don't have any ballast for my Fr3Ak and so far, I'm not tempted to use any. It penetrates well and is quite stable without it. The Fr3ak is a wonderful light air plane too. I haven't flown the Taboo in a long time now but I believe the Fr3aK holds it's own in light air with the Taboo. It slows down nicely and is still well mannered and controllable. The Fr3Ak doesn't slow down for landing with the flaps fully deployed as much as my B3. It's not bad though. I am actually better at catching the Fr3Ak than the B3. I'm probably slowing the B3 down too much.

The Fr3Ak is really solid and I mean REALLY solid. I'm amazed at how strong and rigid it is for it's weight 10.2 oz which incidentally is the same weight as my B3 was before the repair.

I like both the B3 and the Fr3aK but right now the Fr3aK is my #1. I wasn't sure it would be before I got the B3 back yesterday but it certainly is. I like the extra height on the launch and I like the speed and ranging ability and I like not having to resort to ballast just because it got a little blustery out. Also, I like the comfort of a traditional throwing blade over the thing on the B3.

So, take it for what it's worth guys. I'm fairly certain I can fly a little better with my Fr3aK than my B3. It could just be a familiarity thing however. I've been flying the heck out of the Fr3aK while my B3 was in disrepair. Both planes seem very good to this DLG newbie but I'm giving the edge to the Fr3aK.
Mike
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Old Jun 12, 2012, 06:10 PM
Registered User
San Gabriel Valley, CA
Joined Mar 2008
1,756 Posts
I will be upgrading from Vandals to Fr3aKs soon soon. Keep it up, Tom. Made in USA!

Tai
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Old Jun 16, 2012, 12:22 PM
Afflicted with DDD
Soarhead00's Avatar
United States, CO, Berthoud
Joined Mar 2006
1,360 Posts
Elevator horn and stab placement

Tom
Just to confirm, the instructions I have say to put the LE of the H Stab at 630 mm behind the wing LE. Is this what everyone has been doing? Seems about 2" too far forward based on the remaining boom length. Has there been any updates of the build instructions since post 391? Do you have a pix of the elevator horn install and slot in the fuselage? I'm almost done and don't want to screw it up now.
TIA
Bob
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Last edited by Soarhead00; Jun 16, 2012 at 12:32 PM. Reason: more questions.
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Old Jun 17, 2012, 09:36 PM
ground penetration specialist
Nathan Schmoekel's Avatar
USA, MI, Grand Rapids
Joined Apr 2007
1,819 Posts
Saw Mr. Wiz's Fr3aK fly today here in MI, launches Omg well, floats, hauls ass, and seems seems to stay in the air longer, with less pilot effort too.
I've seen alot of DLGs fly, and this one seems to me to be the most well rounded I have ever seen.

Tom, whatever you're doing, you are doing right!!
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Old Jun 23, 2012, 10:47 PM
Time for me to Fly...
Mr. Wiz's Avatar
United States, MI, Fenton
Joined Jan 2000
8,603 Posts
Well, and after a marathon session today it's all back together and ready for a test hop tomorrow. Barring anything unforeseen it should be good to go for the Bruce.
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Old Jun 24, 2012, 07:24 AM
Hey was that a Thermal ????
Joined Nov 2009
2,448 Posts
It has been very interesting to see this whole project develop. The first time I met Tom he had a tail mold and that was it. He had a tai8l mold and a plan.

It has been incredible to see such drive and determination to make this happen. To go through all that Tom has and still have a smile on his face is incredible.

I am really impressed with both the plane and the man who made it happen.

Tom, I honestly believe your accomplishments are up there with some of the best of our time. You may have chosen a less known field to apply yourself but that in no way lessons your accomplishments. In a time when most people simply drudge along from day to day you have chosen to undertake an adventure. There are (obviously) very few people who would have perservered in this effort.

Paul
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Old Jun 24, 2012, 03:38 PM
Father of Fr3aK, DLG Pilot
tom43004's Avatar
USA, OH, Worthington
Joined May 2002
6,733 Posts
Thanks Paul. Time has really flown by since I started this obsession. I look back every month or so into one of the three threads (Zone Clone, DLG Molded Project, Fr3aK Zone) to see what I was making a year ago or two years ago etc. Alot of the time I feel like I'm not really making progress but the log of work here usually tells me otherwise.

I'm at a point where I'm really happy with what I'm able to make and what my friends have made in helping me with production. Now that a number of these are out there flying, and more are in the final phases of completion, I'm spending a little time actually flying and enjoying them.

I finished machining the new fuselage molds today and should be pulling test parts from that in the next 24-48 hours. With a bit of luck I'll be test flying the new fuse this weekend in Bruce's back yard and mating the solid core wings to that by NATs. I don't have any plans for production of either the new fuse or solid core wings this year, but look for those to be the basis of the SuperFr3aK for next season.

As for the smile on my face... I may get down from time to time (poker tasks come to mind) but it's hard to get the smile to go away. As long as my kids are happy and healthy, I don't see too much as being all that relevant.
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Old Jun 24, 2012, 03:51 PM
Thermal, where art thou?
BavarianCharles's Avatar
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Joined Oct 2005
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tom43004 View Post
.. With a bit of luck I'll be test flying the new fuse this weekend in Bruce's back yard and mating the solid core wings to that by NATs. I don't have any plans for production of either the new fuse or solid core wings this year, but look for those to be the basis of the SuperFr3aK for next season.
Hey Tom,

I see a lot of guys struggling with dents in their new-fangled molded solid core wings that use Rohacell or Depron.

Three cheers for bagged wings using Hi-Load or Foamular!

Are you planning to use a "steamable" foam?

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Old Jun 24, 2012, 04:01 PM
Father of Fr3aK, DLG Pilot
tom43004's Avatar
USA, OH, Worthington
Joined May 2002
6,733 Posts
I'm not sure what I'll be using yet. Rohacell is very nice but leaves you without opportunity for steaming out dents as you say. It's also very expensive compared to XPS. My test cuts so far have been in XPS but I have a large stash of Rohacell, so I'm sure I'll fly both as the fall comes. My gut tells me I'll be using Hiload 40 or 60 if I can get the machining precise enough to elimiate springback.

The big advantage I see for solid molding from my side is that I can likely use faster hardener combinations requiring less post curing (shorter time in the mold) and the wing can be made in a single curing cycle... allowing for much more rapid production from a single set of molds.
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Old Jun 24, 2012, 05:49 PM
Hey was that a Thermal ????
Joined Nov 2009
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tom43004 View Post
As for the smile on my face... I may get down from time to time (poker tasks come to mind) but it's hard to get the smile to go away. As long as my kids are happy and healthy, I don't see too much as being all that relevant.
I feel the same way, my kids are the reason I walk this earth.

I have some thoughts on foam for a solid core molded wing... I am sure we can figure out a way to get some tests done. Maybe some time in the future we can get together and share some ideas....

Paul
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Old Jun 24, 2012, 06:31 PM
Registered User
Germantown, Maryland
Joined Apr 2004
4,513 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by tom43004 View Post
....The big advantage I see for solid molding from my side is that I can likely use faster hardener combinations requiring less post curing (shorter time in the mold) and the wing can be made in a single curing cycle... allowing for much more rapid production from a single set of molds.
Does that mean you won't be needing a wing maker?

Or does that mean that you hope to ramp up production and really pump those suckers out, with the help of friends?
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Old Jun 24, 2012, 07:02 PM
Team Hong Kong F3K
ThomasLee's Avatar
Hong Kong
Joined Sep 2010
3,157 Posts
Solid core wings, now we're talking Tom!
Can't wait to see it!
We're planning on getting our first solid moulded planes out in the fall too We're going for XPS simply because of the steaming and price as you mentioned. Rohacell is far stiffer than the XPS at the same weight, but with carbon skins that really isn't a big deal.
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Old Jun 25, 2012, 11:01 AM
Time for me to Fly...
Mr. Wiz's Avatar
United States, MI, Fenton
Joined Jan 2000
8,603 Posts
OK, people keep talking about how this plane loves camber. Exactly how much camber are we talking about? I think I've taken the statements maybe a little too far but I'm still new enough at this not to be able to tell how much is too much.

Also, after my boom repair my CG went back to 74 mm. The plane now feels a little too far on the wild side but this is only 2mm back from where I had it. Maybe even that is a little too far back. I'm going to try 68-70 and see how that feels. I'd just like to soften it up a little. Having it signal is great but pilot fatigue is becoming an issue for me.
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Old Jun 25, 2012, 11:21 AM
Father of Fr3aK, DLG Pilot
tom43004's Avatar
USA, OH, Worthington
Joined May 2002
6,733 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Phil Barnes View Post
Does that mean you won't be needing a wing maker?

Or does that mean that you hope to ramp up production and really pump those suckers out, with the help of friends?
The latter Phil, with the help of friends

@ Mike,

On calmer days I have my cruise setting at about 2mm and thermal at 5mm. On more gusty days it's more like 1mm and 3mm. Around 70-72mm is a really good CG for most days. I used to fly much more aft but I found that it's quite easy for the airplane to be upset at those settings.
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