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Old Oct 19, 2012, 07:12 AM
ham
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Originally Posted by twiztidbowler View Post
Like I said the retracts I used have a over limit built in so when they hit something they will stop. So like for you instead of going through your wing they stop when there retracted all the way. I used the retracts that Hobby People sell
Do you know if the 716 retracts have this over limit protection? I have moved the spacers to the 2 aft screws to get a more forward rake (and no outward rake). When I select the gear up and when the wheels hit the top of wheel bay the mechanism sounds like it is struggling 1-2 seconds before it stops. It doesn't sound like it's good for the retracts
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Old Oct 19, 2012, 07:23 AM
Look out below
mcnowhere's Avatar
United States, OR, McMinnville
Joined Aug 2011
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Originally Posted by Ollymann View Post
thx mcnowhere,
Since winter is coming along in Germany and the model building season starts,
I will wait until January when I visit Boston for a couple days and get in touch with HeadsupRC to have something delivered to my hotel.
br
Ollyman

You going to buy some new models to take home with ya too?
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Old Oct 19, 2012, 08:43 AM
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Originally Posted by ham View Post
Got a couple of flights again yesterday. I need practise - I think the video says it all

Due to lack of video footage, I decided to spice it up with War Machine by AC DC

http://youtu.be/54NeJIf0fgA
Ham, your video is too cool!! I loved it! That was fun, all the different angles and everything, cool music. Just awesome. Thanks for posting it.

BTW, landings look good to me, looks like it is just sticking in the thick grass. You have is slowed all the way down before touchdown, no bouncing, I don't know if you can prevent nose over in thick grass, even with your giant tires. I have only landed on hard dirt and pavement with mine.
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Old Oct 19, 2012, 03:50 PM
ham
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Originally Posted by CrashMaster39 View Post
Ham, your video is too cool!! I loved it! That was fun, all the different angles and everything, cool music. Just awesome. Thanks for posting it.

BTW, landings look good to me, looks like it is just sticking in the thick grass. You have is slowed all the way down before touchdown, no bouncing, I don't know if you can prevent nose over in thick grass, even with your giant tires. I have only landed on hard dirt and pavement with mine.
Thanks for the nice words CrashMaster

I actually got some good landings today on the same grass field I got a little bit more forward rake on the gear and moved the CG a little aft. The weather was also perfect with no wind, so was able to set up for at nice and stable approach, a long flare and full up elevator at just the right time when just below flying speed. Nice and smooth and no nose over
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Old Oct 19, 2012, 11:04 PM
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Originally Posted by ham View Post
Do you know if the 716 retracts have this over limit protection? I have moved the spacers to the 2 aft screws to get a more forward rake (and no outward rake). When I select the gear up and when the wheels hit the top of wheel bay the mechanism sounds like it is struggling 1-2 seconds before it stops. It doesn't sound like it's good for the retracts
I saw in a video that they do have protection and I don't think it will hurt them but I don't have them so not really sure. What I do know is that with the 514's, I have made several mods like forward rake with my 4 inch wheels and when the wheels hit the top of the wheel wells like you are talking about, my 514s will sometimes refuse to come down. I have had to make two wheels up landings due to one wheel getting stuck in the up position. I had to remove all of my forward rake so that the wheels do not hit the wheel wells at all. I'm going to fly it again tomorrow and I'm hoping I have fixed it again. When mine stick in the up position, the only way to get them to open up is to push them further closed while hitting the "open" button.
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Old Oct 21, 2012, 04:10 PM
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Boy does this plane fly nice!

Finally got the maiden in. Looks very nice in flight. Only problems were pre-flight. The supplied pushrods/horns kept slipping for the flaps so I used some Welder's glue after getting them set. Used a 4s 4000 battery with a few bits of lead weight to ensure a forward CG for the first flight. Think I'll leave it there as the handling was spot on.

Kept the flaps up for landing and it was soooo smoooth. Its so quiet I really want one of those sound systems. Maybe the cost will drop down someday. Guess I'll just have to keep making engine sounds myself for now...
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Old Oct 21, 2012, 09:44 PM
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The MrRCsound Pro is suitable, just, for this sized plane (sound volume-wise).... so at $150 that is the best value. And having realistic sound is awesome, and well worth its cost!!
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Old Oct 21, 2012, 11:11 PM
Feeling the THRALL
Jackson Stone's Avatar
USA, CO, Parker
Joined Dec 2009
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Ham,

Finally back from my travels and watched your video. Thought you did a great job. I see from your latest post that you have achieved smoother landings with practice and some mods to the landing gear and CG.

I am going to be working on both my FMS P-51 and HK P-47 this week. The P-51 is getting a 1850 watt capable motor and a retrofit of all flying surfaces (going to cut them and install CA hinges). Also new 514 retracts and high quality struts. The P-47 gets new 514 retracts and high quality struts, plus some repositioning of the Mr. RC Sound Module for better sound output. I will have some videos to post when I get done.

Regards,

Jackson
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Old Oct 22, 2012, 01:23 AM
ham
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Denmark, Capital Region of Denmark, Dragør
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Originally Posted by CrashMaster39 View Post
I saw in a video that they do have protection and I don't think it will hurt them but I don't have them so not really sure. What I do know is that with the 514's, I have made several mods like forward rake with my 4 inch wheels and when the wheels hit the top of the wheel wells like you are talking about, my 514s will sometimes refuse to come down. I have had to make two wheels up landings due to one wheel getting stuck in the up position. I had to remove all of my forward rake so that the wheels do not hit the wheel wells at all. I'm going to fly it again tomorrow and I'm hoping I have fixed it again. When mine stick in the up position, the only way to get them to open up is to push them further closed while hitting the "open" button.
I got a couple of flights during the weekend and the retracts worked fine. I left them at my latest modification with the forward rake and even if they don't sound so happy when hitting the wheel bay they have deployed without a glitch every time, so I will keep it like it is

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jackson Stone View Post
Ham,

Finally back from my travels and watched your video. Thought you did a great job. I see from your latest post that you have achieved smoother landings with practice and some mods to the landing gear and CG.

Regards,

Jackson
Thanks Jackson,

Yes I got some good landings this weekend. Still had some nose overs but they were at slow speed when I was taxiing on long/bumpy grass.

Now I practise on getting nice slow climbing scale take offs, retracting the gear just after rotation. It's hard to make it look scale but it is so beautiful when it works
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Old Oct 22, 2012, 03:52 PM
Feeling the THRALL
Jackson Stone's Avatar
USA, CO, Parker
Joined Dec 2009
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Quote:
Thanks Jackson,

Yes I got some good landings this weekend. Still had some nose overs but they were at slow speed when I was taxiing on long/bumpy grass.

Now I practise on getting nice slow climbing scale take offs, retracting the gear just after rotation. It's hard to make it look scale but it is so beautiful when it works
Ham,

I love doing this as well. I especially like doing a series of touch-n-goes. Bring the plane in for a smooth landing with flaps down and some power on, let her roll down the runway whilst keeping her straight on the runway, then gently apply power and resume flying. Repeat twenty times and you will be a pro!
I found that by doing this I great improved my finesse at achieving scale takeoffs and landings.

My recipe for scale-like takeoffs is to quickly feed in about 40% power at the start so that I get rudder authority, while anticipating a yaw to the left due to propeller torque and counteracting with a little right rudder (doesn't take much so don't over correct). Then, let the tail come up and allow the plane to roll on the ground for awhile, smoothly apply a little more power to about 2/3 throttle and she will gently lift off. I also like retracting the gear just after takeoff for the scale effect. I generally do not take off with flaps, but if you do, then retract after the retracts. Once I have achieved the "scale" portion of the takeoff I usually give the plane full power to accelerate and climb.

All the best,

Jackson
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Old Oct 23, 2012, 12:05 AM
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Originally Posted by Jackson Stone View Post
My recipe for scale-like takeoffs is to quickly feed in about 40% power at the start so that I get rudder authority, while anticipating a yaw to the left due to propeller torque and counteracting with a little right rudder (doesn't take much so don't over correct). Then, let the tail come up and allow the plane to roll on the ground for awhile, smoothly apply a little more power to about 2/3 throttle and she will gently lift off.
Ahhh, Jackson, I think this may help me! The "quickly feeding 40% power" part! I've been rolling the throttle on real slow and smooth, then suddenly it turns left. I am really trying for scale take offs, but I can not smoothy deal with the left torque on take off. I can do a really cool long scale touch n go, no problem going all the way straight down the runway, tail wheel up or down. But when I take off from a full stop, I turn left and then either go with it and pull up, or S-turn back and forth. I've tried hard to anticipate the left torque, but I'm never fast enough. I'm going to try quickly feeding in the 40% power, thanks for the details of your technique.
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Old Oct 23, 2012, 04:33 AM
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Why would you quickly feed in any amount of power? It seems better to me to build it up slowly with full up elevator from rest and just let it roll out to more speed, and you reduce elevator to neutral as it goes, that way you do have tail wheel authority initially and cross-over into rudder authority along that way too.
No torque issue, though there is still torque effect at any power level, but it is so minor you can offset it accurately with ease anyway. And very low power - probably reaching 40% area (depends on your setup) by lift-off. But NO RUSH to get there, depending on your runway situation.
Once in the air, do what you want... fly off sedately, or power away - generally still not a high climb angle, for a more common realistic take-off process, but if you want to just go for it and into a strong climb, LOL.

Only the initial movement, through the main roll out process, 'needs' to be done a certain way to be scale. Once the tail comes up it is almost 'do as you please' (within reason).
When we roll out SLOW... like using 20% throttle or so... that mimics the real plane doing near full power. Because they weigh a HUGE amount, and foamies do not. So they need a much faster throttle increase, up to WOT for take-off, whilst we only need a very scaled down proportion of that.... eg the 20% heading up to 40%, to achieve the same process/look.

Mind you, I have a WAY OVERWEIGHT Spitfire (1200mm weighing 1.75Kg), that rolls out far more realistically due to the mass of it. But even it still only needs 50% throttle to mimic the real one. It would need closer to 2Kg to actually behave more correctly in inertias/motions..... and to accelerate and climb to realistic rates it would probably need to be 2.5Kg!! (But then you would need to FLY it totally realistically at all times or rip the wings off!!). Its glide ratio shows me that it COULD carry 2.5Kg totally fine!! (which I am thinking of increasing its weight). But the bigger issue as you head to heavier is the STRENGTH of the plane - mainly wings, but also landing gear/mounts capability.
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Old Oct 24, 2012, 07:01 AM
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I know what you are saying Peter, and I have been trying to roll on gradual very low power for long take off roll, but what happens for me is at about 60 feet or so down the runway, the plane turns left pretty suddenly. I correct some, but if I turn it back straight it would be a giant S turn and all realisticness is done at that point. So I end up taking off at 30 degrees, over the curb on the side of the road. So I'm thinking that Jackson's quick-40%-throttle method may take me through that transition quickly and make it easier to control, but still be low enough to stay on the ground.

Also, I am not usually using much up elevator on the initial roll out. I've tried that but have had issues with taking off too soon and nosing over a little sometimes when I release the up elevator. I SOOO wish that any of the planes in my Clearview simulator had these take-off issues so I could practice this. Not a single plane in Clearview will nose-over & touch prop no matter how quickly you apply power, and they have only very slight left-turn torque. I've even tried modifying parameters, but nothing much helps in the sim.

One of my problems may be that there are trees and light poles all down the right side of my usual runway road, so I am pretty nervous about adding any excess right rudder, perhaps that is my biggest issue. Hopefully I will be flying at a dry lake this weekend and I will see if I can keep it really straight and realistic there. Unfortunately there are no markers on the dry lake to really judge how you are doing.
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Old Oct 24, 2012, 07:53 AM
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The fact it 'turns left', at any point, suggests you move up the throttle too fast at that point.
I can't imagine any prop plane giving you and easier time if you 'blast through' the power in a jump... that is asking for severe torque effect to occur!
So I am thinking you do increase throttle too fast at some point. BUT that might not be YOU.... if the throttle is not truly linear - because ESC's can move ahead a bit faster or slower at certain areas of the range (probably due to motor load/RPM chenages I guess). So that would mean you can't actually move the stick physically linear to get a linear speed gain to match... you would have to be wary through a certain area.

But apart from that..... you should be able to take off at just 40% area. So the range used is only low end of the power available, and should not even really get to 'excessive torque' levels.

Do it all SLOW..... only go to some lower end power level at max - you will need to work that value out per plane..... and let it roll out and lift off by itself, nice and scale/gradual.

And the Full UP elevator part.... that should not make the plane take-off too soon. Because you roll out SLOW and it does nothing but hold the tail down, and as it gains more speed you roll off the elevator (even if you do that fast) so it never actually comes into play as capable of pitch control - the plane was not moving fast enough to even take off by then.
But if it DOES as per you mentioned.... you were still using it (up elevator) after the plane was moving faster than you should still have had up elevator - so adjust that timing.

I vaguely remember having issues like you mention long ago.... hehe. Some analysing, and learning/training of what was going on and what to do means it is all quite easy now.
And including the rudder use that you will still always require at least a bit of.... smooth movements.... and which will be far less required if you do roll out and take off "slow enough".

And yes... gutters in proximity can add stress, and also the need for emegency take off quick smart when it heads off amiss!! LOL

I am pretty well always taking off from a Cricket Pitch on an oval (several I go to). That is a 22metre long, Approx 1.5metre wide strip of either concrete or synthetic grass. Very much like being on a aircraft carrier really!! With no catapult system!! HEHE
BUT... 22 metres (68 feet) is still TONS of distance for a SLOW roll out and nice fluent scale take-off.... whilst staying as good as dead down the centre of it. With the very slow throttle increase rate, and only getting to and using lower end power for that.
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Old Oct 24, 2012, 08:26 AM
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Yes, I know my take-off issues are not plane-specific, I have a smaller P-51 and have same issues. I ALWAYS try for a scale take-off, anything else just looks horrible to me. I can't believe you can go straight down a cricket patch to scale take-off, Arrrrg! I think I need to stop doing touch and goes (which are always nice long and scale), and instead just practice full stop landings and take-offs every time, whole flight. My left hand skills are sub par, years of experience with slope gliders, but only 1 year with tail draggers. Thanks for the help
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