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View Poll Results: Should AMA LMs have a hidden forum
Yes 30 54.55%
No 25 45.45%
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Old Jun 23, 2011, 09:50 AM
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Should AMA LMs have a secret forum?

It seems a discussion not fully explored. I will not close this thread simply because I don't like the responses as some other less than respectful OP would.


It seems there are dense, oblivious or the outright resentful that will not even acknowledge, much less discuss the thought that the general AMA membership should be allowed insight to their (LMs) discussions on our (AMAs) forum. I think that position is inherently inappropriate for a real leader to take.

Along those lines, how can we remove undesirable leader members? In other words... there seems to be a GOB mechanism for installing those types willing to apply themselves appropriately... but what mechanism exists to remove the problem LM?
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Old Jun 23, 2011, 10:08 AM
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Should AMA LMs have a secret forum?

Heck yea they should. Today they are raffling off a 42" LCD TV and tomorrow is the raffle for Comp points in Vegas. If too many people know about it, it'll decrease my odds on winning.

Plus, I'd hate to miss out on the free beer during happy hour.

Frank

Edit to add: The above was a joke. If you did not see it that way, then perhaps you are taking these Internet forums way too seriously. Keep in mind our sport is supposed to FUN.
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Old Jun 23, 2011, 10:23 AM
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Mommy.........mommy....... the big boys won't let me play with them !!!!!!!!!!!!!

Here is a new thread started by the OP on another forum:

Quote:
ABOUT LEADER MEMBERS

here has been quite a bit of talk lately in the forums about leader members and the "important issues" they address.


Question; What are some of the "important issues" the LMs resolved in the past? I gave it some serious thought and nothing has come to mind.

_____________________________

Wow! Another epiphany…that is why the suckups suckup. Super sucking protection power. Yea baby.
Judge for yourself ........ as any member of the EC must be a Leader Member the OP is saying the leadership of the AMA HAS NOT resolved any "important issue"

The continued misrepresentation of the accomplishments of the AMA should factor into your judgement on the motivation of the OP.

Brad
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Old Jun 23, 2011, 10:23 AM
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Originally Posted by littlecrankshaft View Post
It seems a discussion not fully explored. I will not close this thread simply because I don't like the responses as some other less than respectful OP would.


It seems there are dense, oblivious or the outright resentful that will not even acknowledge, much less discuss the thought that the general AMA membership should be allowed insight to their (LMs) discussions on our (AMAs) forum. I think that position is inherently inappropriate for a real leader to take.

Along those lines, how can we remove undesirable leader members? In other words... there seems to be a GOB mechanism for installing those types willing to apply themselves appropriately... but what mechanism exists to remove the problem LM?
littlecrankshaft,
If I could I would like to respond to one of those un-responded to posts here. This response is to bradpaul’s post quoted below:

bradpaul
"Frank we often agree, but not this time......."

phlpsfrnk
"Should all the Leader Members on the AMA forum be identified as Leader Members? Yes "

bradpaul
"There is no requirement that a user of the AMA forum identify themselves. When I believe Red proposed that members post under real names the usual gang went bonkers. So required identification as a Leader Member just won't fly."

phlpsfrnk
"Should all the AMA members be able to read Leader Member forum discussions? Yes "

bradpaul
"Why so the discussions can be picked apart on RCU and RCG by the usual gang? If you don't believe that that is the motivation behind most of this noise, I have a bridge in Brooklyn to sell you.

Brad "

Brad,
I think the idea of a Leader Member Forum was a good idea however there was a problem with its execution. I do not believe it was done with malice of forethought but it was not publicized properly. Couple that with the fact that the AMA Forum itself (for whatever reason) keeps its User Groups list hidden from the general membership and you have the perception that you are trying to hide something. When people in general think you are trying to hide something they tend to mistrust anything you may have to say. Not saying it is right or wrong, just the way it is. We can’t un-ring the bell as the saying goes. All we can do is make amends. If you do not think this might be a problem then we have nothing further to discuss. For those that do believe this to be a problem I believe the only solution to the mistrust (right or wrong) that’s been generated is to provide full transparency.

On the issue of identifying leader members I’m not asking for their full name or any other specifics other than identifying their AMA forum username as being a Leader Member like the Administrators and Moderators are identified now. I ask this only to be able to address my questions or opinions to someone on any issues before the leader members. I have already embarrassed myself by wrongly identifying somebody as a leader member when they in fact were not. Because of that I tried to find the Leader Member list. As far as I can tell there is no public Leader Member list. I don’t know why one would not want to be identified as a Leader Member but the designation could be made voluntary.

On the issue of AMA general members reading the Leader Member forum I’m torn. If this were before the flawed execution of the Leader Member forum I could make a case for not having it readable to the general membership if some method of presenting the issues to the memberships had been put forward. That did not happen and in light of the generated mistrust this has caused I think the only option at this point is full transparency. I think the Leader Members should be polled about this but that is my recommendation. If there are things that were discussed that might be embarrassing in the light of day then make the transparency from today moving forward. If someone cuts and pastes to another forum who cares if it brings attention to the issues. Wouldn’t you want various views of the issues in able to make a more informed recommendation to the EC?

Regards
Frank
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Old Jun 23, 2011, 10:32 AM
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phlpsfrnk:
GREAT POST!!!!!
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Old Jun 23, 2011, 02:48 PM
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Agreed. Well thought out post Frank. I'm sure you have contacted your AVP or DVP and let him know your concerns? From my dealings with him, he is a great guy and I'm sure he's like to know your thoughts about it.

Frank
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Old Jun 23, 2011, 04:04 PM
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Murocflyer - Bit confused by your last post.

Why would Frank need to contact his AVP or DVP about a forum you setup and admin?
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Old Jun 23, 2011, 04:09 PM
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Murocflyer - Bit confused by your last post.

Why would Frank need to contact his AVP or DVP about a forum you setup and admin?
Easy question and thanks for asking. I do not Admin anything at all. If he wants something changed such as the policy of the AMA forum, he needs to contact his local AVP, DVP or the President of the AMA.

Hope that helps.

Frank
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Old Jun 23, 2011, 04:25 PM
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Originally Posted by Murocflyer View Post
Easy question and thanks for asking. I do not Admin anything at all. If he wants something changed such as the policy of the AMA forum, he needs to contact his local AVP, DVP or the President of the AMA.

Hope that helps.

Frank
Thanks for the quick reply and two follow up question.

On the thread you had on this subject on post 19; curious as to who is the "we" you keep referring to?

Then on post 45 you state you created the forum.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Murocflyer View Post
I do not understand the big deal about LMs having their own forum. So they have a forum, good for them.

Ultimately, it was my decision to create one so LMs can openly share their concerns and ideas relative to the AMA instead of trying to email 2600 people. It was/is a quick and efficient method to conduct business and communicate among each other.

Frank
If you were able to setup this LM forum at your discretion again how do the AVPs, DVPs or President of the AMA play into who can and cannot view the forum?
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Old Jun 23, 2011, 09:22 PM
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What happened to personal freedoms? Why can't an organization have a closed method of communication? Each Leader Member took it upon themselves to perform the duties necessary to become a Leader Member, why should those who have not performed those duties, have the same access?

Those of you who are so dissatisfied with how the AMA is run, should stop sending in your membership fees; or, you should stop grousing about everything, become a leader member and work towards the changes you feel are so necessary!

This is the best demonstration of a "Tempest in a tea cup" I've seen in a long time and all over $58.00!
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Old Jun 24, 2011, 06:19 AM
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Originally Posted by Murocflyer View Post
Agreed. Well thought out post Frank. I'm sure you have contacted your AVP or DVP and let him know your concerns? From my dealings with him, he is a great guy and I'm sure he's like to know your thoughts about it.

Frank
Frank,
You did not agree when you were making jokes about my questions in the AMA forum and I notice that entire thread I started with a question has been removed with no explanation and I'll bet you don't think that’s a problem either. As you well know, in the past I have contacted you and AMA administrators about my concerns. I got a polite response that they would look into it and get back to me. I'm still waiting.

If you agree with the above and want to improve the situation find out why the AMA forum hides the User Groups list from the general membership. I’m fairly certain it’s not the intended case but it implies that they want to hide something.

September 2009 Jim Rice, Chairman Leader Member Committee

“These key people (Leader Members) help us get information out to the membership, keep us focused, provide us with a pool of candidates for associate vice president, district vice president, and other positions besides ratifying bylaws changes.”


You are NOT getting information out to the membership by holding discussions in a closed forum that hardly anybody but a few of you knows/knew of. Being a Leader Member may be the “highest level of membership” but if you continue with the attitude that you are exclusive from the membership you are generating more mistrust. Stick your head in the sand if you want but if action is not taken soon it will only get worse.

Regards
Frank
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Old Jun 24, 2011, 09:38 AM
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You are NOT getting information out to the membership by holding discussions in a closed forum that hardly anybody but a few of you knows/knew of.

Regards
Frank
Trust issues aside, that one sentence is evidence of an inescapable and a most salient point... It is very disconcerting that point is so hard for some to see.

My faith in those, that are leader members, that cannot see that point is nonexistent and some mechanism should exist to remove them. They are the real problem!
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Old Jun 24, 2011, 09:59 AM
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Originally Posted by littlecrankshaft View Post
Trust issues aside, that one sentence is evidence of an inescapable and a most salient point... It is very disconcerting that point is so hard for some to see.

My faith in those, that are leader members, that cannot see that point is nonexistent and some mechanism should exist to remove them. They are the real problem!
Oh come on littlecrankshaft you're just jealous that you're not a LM (sarcasm added)
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Old Jun 24, 2011, 10:22 AM
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Frank P just download a Leader Member application Red, Frank G and I will sign it and even contribute the $10.00...........................

Now .....................

Can you just imagine what would happen if for example there was a thread in the LM forum that was intended to brainstorm ideas. Somebody asks the question "perhaps dues should be increased"........ not that they should be but to examine the correctness of the dues structure. I can just see the headlines on RCU now.

Of course some of you may remember when a certain "self appointed guru of flight instruction" posted all over the internet the unedited list of suggestions submitted to the LM committee...

Most of the complaining IMHO is just that complaining. Look at the complainers (the usual gang)....... Frank P, I am disappointed to see you included with that group.

Brad
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Old Jun 24, 2011, 10:42 AM
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Well Frank P. we of the "normal gang" welcome your views

Too bad some can't see the rational suggestions/concerns you are making as anything more than an attack on LM's and the AMA (which they are not). You have very completely summarized why there is a concern about this restricted group and how they are meeting.

Brad - that list you are referencing to, if it is the one I am thinking of was interesting. Since over 50% of those "suggestions" go directly against the complaints people post about the AMA in multiple different forms. If that "suggestion" list is an example of the type of "leadership" the LMs feel they are giving that is scary and would explain why you want to keep those discussions hidden.
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