HobbyKing.com New Products Flash Sale
Reply
Thread Tools
Old Aug 04, 2011, 08:31 AM
nsg
Registered User
Yardley, PA
Joined Sep 2006
4,153 Posts
Brian - so the design calls for a shaft drive, it seems. Any specific ideas/recommendations?
nsg is offline Find More Posts by nsg
Reply With Quote
Sign up now
to remove ads between posts
Old Aug 04, 2011, 09:10 AM
Designing something...
United States, CA, Cameron Park
Joined Jan 2004
1,680 Posts
@nsg - Here's what I've been using:

5mm Coupling bush (Graupner USA #3373)
5mm drill rod (McMaser-Carr #8116K34)
5mm X 16mm x 5mm Bearings (VXB # 625ZZ20-1)

I've also use Lothar's design for the rear bearing cup shown below (the top part).

I had some of these machined locallly but I don't have any more right now. I will be ordering more soon. They've generally ended up costing about $15 each.

I hope this helps!

Brian
cpdude is offline Find More Posts by cpdude
Reply With Quote
Old Aug 04, 2011, 05:38 PM
nsg
Registered User
Yardley, PA
Joined Sep 2006
4,153 Posts
Thanks, Brian, it does help. I think I can reuse a few heli parts to set up a shaft drive.

Is the shaft drive because of the space, or CoG? A smaller Hyperion glider motor will probably fit in the tail, but I don't know if I'd be able to balance it.
nsg is offline Find More Posts by nsg
Reply With Quote
Old Aug 04, 2011, 05:52 PM
Designing something...
United States, CA, Cameron Park
Joined Jan 2004
1,680 Posts
@nsg - I believe the Graupner part is intended for for use on boats. If you heli parts that'll work then by all means go for it.

On most of the Horten's I'd say it mostly about the CoG. Most of the Horten's already have enough lead in the nose. Moving the motor to the tail would no doubt result in more lead in the nose. On the 2m Horten XII I'd say it's about both space and CoG. It you can fit a small and light motor in the it might work.

Brian
cpdude is offline Find More Posts by cpdude
Reply With Quote
Old Aug 05, 2011, 08:36 AM
I'm slow but I'm expensive
Ken Lilja's Avatar
United States, GA, Snellville
Joined Nov 2003
574 Posts
An image of a scale model of the XII by Erik van den Hoogen. Has some landing gear details. I wish I find the sources for things like this. It must be easier to do in Europe.
Ken
Ken Lilja is offline Find More Posts by Ken Lilja
RCG Plus Member
Last edited by Ken Lilja; Nov 14, 2011 at 02:56 PM.
Reply With Quote
Old Aug 06, 2011, 08:14 AM
nsg
Registered User
Yardley, PA
Joined Sep 2006
4,153 Posts
It looks like HobbyKing's KH-450 uses a 5mm main main shaft, about 110mm long. Not sure whether the shaft itself is long enough, but the bearings, bearing holders, etc. can definitely be reused.
nsg is offline Find More Posts by nsg
Reply With Quote
Old Aug 06, 2011, 11:06 AM
a wing is enough
Tail Saw's Avatar
Germany
Joined Aug 2010
97 Posts
This is my solution, it is very easy, needs no consuming tools and is in Funktion since nearly 2 years, drive power is over 700 W.

I use a aluminum tube with 5/6 mm in diameter. At the spinner side i have glued a short piece of 5 mm shaft in the tube. The glue is thread locking fluid Loctide blue 242. I can solve the bonding with heat if it is necessary.

There is only one bearing in a plywood seat, but two bearings would be possible, too.
The bearing is held outside by a plywood disc. The larger diameter of the aluminium tube fixes the bearing on the inside.

The aluminum pipe to the motor shaft is also only glued with loctide.
To disassemble the drive, the motor screws need only be solved and then it is possible to pull the shaft and the motor forward out.

I think the drawing and the pictures show the most important details.

@Ken: in europe it is not easier to find Photos and details of the Ho XII, we use the same sources than you: the books of Selinger / Horten, David Myhra, google and patience

The books of David Myhra have the problem that a lot of information in it are confused. Name of aircraft at the pictures and text are often reported incorrectly.

I have only one more photo of the XII which was not yet shown here, I still hang on there.

Regards,

Uwe.
Tail Saw is offline Find More Posts by Tail Saw
Reply With Quote
Old Aug 06, 2011, 11:22 AM
Designing something...
United States, CA, Cameron Park
Joined Jan 2004
1,680 Posts
Geez! 700 Watts on this poor little plane. I'm surprised you haven't ripped it to pieces. I guess that's a testiment to how strong it's been designed and build.

I like what you are doing with the prop shaft and bearings. I will definitely have to try this!

Brian
cpdude is offline Find More Posts by cpdude
Reply With Quote
Old Aug 06, 2011, 12:16 PM
a wing is enough
Tail Saw's Avatar
Germany
Joined Aug 2010
97 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by cpdude View Post
Geez! 700 Watts on this poor little plane. I'm surprised you haven't ripped it to pieces. I guess that's a testiment to how strong it's been designed and build.
700 W is possible with my reinforced middle section, but this is the border.
Currently I have a 10 x 6 prop mounted, but if I fly a 10 x 7 it flutters in rough weather and in rapid down passages.

Here ist a log with the 10 x 6.
Fastest horizontal speed is ~ 135 km/h, fastes speed after nosedive is ~ 165 km/h.
Tail Saw is offline Find More Posts by Tail Saw
Reply With Quote
Old Aug 06, 2011, 12:36 PM
Designing something...
United States, CA, Cameron Park
Joined Jan 2004
1,680 Posts
Uwe,

I was looking at your drawings in your post above. How did you attach the 5/6mm tube to the motor shaft?

Brian
cpdude is offline Find More Posts by cpdude
Last edited by cpdude; Aug 06, 2011 at 06:54 PM.
Reply With Quote
Old Aug 06, 2011, 01:19 PM
a wing is enough
Tail Saw's Avatar
Germany
Joined Aug 2010
97 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by cpdude View Post
How did you attach the 5/16" tube to the motor shaft?
I cut the tube in the correct length, put the shaft from the front through the rear bearing. Then I pushed the engine shaft with the mount from forward in the tube and have everything aligned. When the shaft is turned by hand, it must rotate clean.
Then i glued the bulkhead in the cockpit and the shaft in the tube, all with fast epoxy. It is possible to glue the shaft in the tube with thread locking fluid Loctide blue 242.

For disassemble the tube from the motor shaft, I use the heat of a lighter. The glue will soften and I can disconnect the parts very easy.
Tail Saw is offline Find More Posts by Tail Saw
Reply With Quote
Old Aug 06, 2011, 07:31 PM
Designing something...
United States, CA, Cameron Park
Joined Jan 2004
1,680 Posts
Now I remember why I didn't use a thin wall aluminum tube for the propellor shaft. It's basically unavailable in the US.

Anyway, that's why I ended up using the 5mm drill rod. If anyone knows of a source for small diameter thin wall metric tubing I'm listening.

Thanks!
Brian
cpdude is offline Find More Posts by cpdude
Reply With Quote
Old Aug 06, 2011, 07:52 PM
nsg
Registered User
Yardley, PA
Joined Sep 2006
4,153 Posts
There's CF..several places sell 5mm OD tubes. BP Hobbies is one.
nsg is offline Find More Posts by nsg
Reply With Quote
Old Aug 07, 2011, 04:04 PM
Designing something...
United States, CA, Cameron Park
Joined Jan 2004
1,680 Posts
It's been pointed out (thanks Fly Wheel) that the shear webs have the wrong grain orientation. While I'm not going to fix this on my plane the drawings have been revised.

Brian
cpdude is offline Find More Posts by cpdude
Reply With Quote
Old Aug 14, 2011, 01:44 PM
a wing is enough
Tail Saw's Avatar
Germany
Joined Aug 2010
97 Posts
I have found a nice old picture with 6 of the Ho XII. The aircraft can be parked very space-saving
Tail Saw is offline Find More Posts by Tail Saw
Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools

Similar Threads
Category Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Build Log 2M Horten XII cpdude Scale Sailplanes 4 Jun 22, 2011 08:22 AM
For Sale 2 Sig Riser 2 Meter Kits NIB Mark Miller Aircraft - Sailplanes (FS/W) 2 Jun 10, 2011 04:46 AM
Sold Tower Hobbies Vista 2-Meter Sailplane ARF Cincy E-Flyer Aircraft - Electric - Airplanes (FS/W) 7 Mar 14, 2011 06:30 AM
Sold Tower Hobbies Vista 2-Meter Sailplane ARF Cincy E-Flyer Aircraft - Sailplanes (FS/W) 0 Mar 10, 2011 07:21 PM
Sold Discus CS 2.7 Meter critical-mach Aircraft - Sailplanes (FS/W) 7 Mar 09, 2011 09:12 AM