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Old Jul 29, 2011, 08:35 PM
Registered User
Netherlands, NB, Eindhoven
Joined Dec 2010
14 Posts
Problem

I've just built my first quadcopter based on a HK quad frame, HK quad controller, 4 2213n motors, 25A Plush ESC's and a HK-T6AV6 transmitter and receiver.

First I went with the basic firmware that was already on the board. But I had trouble finding a configuration in which I could hover. It kept on sliding into other directions.

So I uploaded this new software version (4.7/+). I went through the setup procedure and I believe that the gyros directions are set properly. The gains are on 50/50/50 (also tried other settings).

I've not been able to get a stable quadcopter. It's not supposed to auto-stabalize right? But it should be possible to hover.
Right now I can't get it up in the air. It wants to flip over because the left and bottom motor are turning faster than the other two.

The only difference I can find between everything in the FAQ's and my setup is the direction of the motors. In the HK manual they are printed exacly opposite to what's on the kk site. (I do have two opposite CW's and two opposite CCW's but all rotated 90degreed).
Is that may be causing my problem. And is there anything else I should do / check? I figured I'd ask here first before I resolder all my motors to reverse their direction.
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Old Jul 30, 2011, 02:16 AM
The simplest, the better!
pdemon's Avatar
Italy, Europe
Joined Apr 2002
1,057 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chronoless View Post
I've just built my first quadcopter based on a HK quad frame, HK quad controller, 4 2213n motors, 25A Plush ESC's and a HK-T6AV6 transmitter and receiver.

First I went with the basic firmware that was already on the board. But I had trouble finding a configuration in which I could hover. It kept on sliding into other directions.

So I uploaded this new software version (4.7/+). I went through the setup procedure and I believe that the gyros directions are set properly. The gains are on 50/50/50 (also tried other settings).

I've not been able to get a stable quadcopter. It's not supposed to auto-stabalize right? But it should be possible to hover.
Right now I can't get it up in the air. It wants to flip over because the left and bottom motor are turning faster than the other two.

The only difference I can find between everything in the FAQ's and my setup is the direction of the motors. In the HK manual they are printed exacly opposite to what's on the kk site. (I do have two opposite CW's and two opposite CCW's but all rotated 90degreed).
Is that may be causing my problem. And is there anything else I should do / check? I figured I'd ask here first before I resolder all my motors to reverse their direction.
Same setup as yours, motors as for post 236 and tuning as for post 237!
Move the command centers, not trims, one point at the time and one command at the time, do a little jump maybe 4 inches of the ground, see in which direction tends to slip, make a change in center... and so on: it worked for me!
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Old Jul 30, 2011, 05:57 AM
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Netherlands, NB, Eindhoven
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pdemon View Post
Same setup as yours, motors as for post 236 and tuning as for post 237!
Move the command centers, not trims, one point at the time and one command at the time, do a little jump maybe 4 inches of the ground, see in which direction tends to slip, make a change in center... and so on: it worked for me!
How do I change command center on my transmitter? In the config program I can only find the options: Endpoint, Revserve, SubTrim, DR, Stick, Type and Mix. I've got it in Plane mode now.
When I put it in Heli-90 mode I get 3 extra options: Thro Curve, Pith Curv and Swash Afr.

If it helps here you can find the transmitters manual : http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/s...X281904X57.pdf
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Old Jul 30, 2011, 06:07 AM
The simplest, the better!
pdemon's Avatar
Italy, Europe
Joined Apr 2002
1,057 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chronoless View Post
How do I change command center on my transmitter? In the config program I can only find the options: Endpoint, Revserve, SubTrim, DR, Stick, Type and Mix. I've got it in Plane mode now.
When I put it in Heli-90 mode I get 3 extra options: Thro Curve, Pith Curv and Swash Afr.

If it helps here you can find the transmitters manual : http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/s...X281904X57.pdf
My radio is a Graupner MC22S. I suppose in your Tx the command center is the same as subtrim.
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Old Jul 30, 2011, 09:11 AM
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French Riviera - Mougins
Joined Nov 2007
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@Chronoless

On your radio, your model needs to be in plane mode without any mixing.

Be aware that according to this post (http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showp...5&postcount=73), the pitch pot is now controlling the I gain and needs to be left at 0 for the first hover. Then after you can increase it to your liking.

If you have correctly connected your 4 ESCs+motors, you first need to calibrate them as follows:
-Turn yaw pot to zero.
-Turn on transmitter.
-Throttle stick to full.
-Turn on flight controller.
-Wait until the ESC's beeps twice after the initial beeps. (Plush and SS ESC's)
-Throttle stick to off. ESC's beep.
-Turn off flight controller.
-Restore the yaw pot.

Once this is done, you need to control the channels of your transmitter to check if they need to be reversed or not.
And last, you control that the gyros are correcting to the right direction and reverse them if necessary.

If you do all this correctly, you should be able to hover and adjust the gains pots to your liking.

I have the HK board with this firmware and it's flying fine except that I'm obliged to trim it a lot to be stable.
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Old Jul 30, 2011, 01:12 PM
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Netherlands, NB, Eindhoven
Joined Dec 2010
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Thanks for the help! The subtrim on my Tx was the trick. The settings I had to use were ch1 32 and ch2 -35 but now it hovers without any problems.

Another newbie question : When do I use the subtrim adjustment and when do I use trim? I've got a little drift in the yaw, it tends to turn left over time.

I also noticed that my motors click a bit. The clicking is unregular and they click faster when the rpm is higher. Is this normal? They seem to be functioning just fine.
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Last edited by Chronoless; Jul 30, 2011 at 02:32 PM.
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Old Jul 30, 2011, 01:31 PM
Well, now that you know ...
Bigster's Avatar
Grafton, Massachusetts, United States
Joined Sep 2004
5,819 Posts
Same motors, same click. I haven't been able to figure out why they're making that noise.
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Old Jul 30, 2011, 02:04 PM
Hovership
3rdeyepro's Avatar
United States, CA, Cupertino
Joined Aug 2010
1,024 Posts
I have been trying to get this new firmware to work on my old red minsoo board with no luck. It wants to spin before even getting off the ground. I have tried reversing the yaw gyro using the radio setup and using the EEPROM yaw reverse files from Minsoo.

Any suggestions?
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Old Jul 30, 2011, 03:53 PM
The simplest, the better!
pdemon's Avatar
Italy, Europe
Joined Apr 2002
1,057 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chronoless View Post
Thanks for the help! The subtrim on my Tx was the trick. The settings I had to use were ch1 32 and ch2 -35 but now it hovers without any problems.

Another newbie question : When do I use the subtrim adjustment and when do I use trim? I've got a little drift in the yaw, it tends to turn left over time.

I also noticed that my motors click a bit. The clicking is unregular and they click faster when the rpm is higher. Is this normal? They seem to be functioning just fine.
Glad to help you, try a little subtrim even for the yaw, but keep in mind that yawing right or left is a matter of just one click...
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Old Jul 30, 2011, 09:02 PM
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United States, TX, Richmond
Joined Aug 2010
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I setup my HK KK board with The Qadrocopter V4.7X firmware from post #73 and when i could finally get off the ground it kept spinning counterclockwise and went out of control and of course, badly damaged. I confirmed all the pots, gyro's, tx trims etc but no luck

Before I reload any firmware to my new build:

1. Is the Xcopter V4.7 and the QuadcroCopter 4.7 that are in LazyZero's flash tool the same firmware and if not which should I use for an X configuration?

2. In the flashtool, there is only one Quadrocopter V4.7 firmware. Is that an X or + configuration?

3. Is the Xcopter V4.7 in the flashtool an X or +?

4. Is the Quadrocopter V4.6 that is in the flashtool an X or a +?

Thanks for any answers you can provide!!
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Old Jul 31, 2011, 05:28 AM
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Trier, Germany
Joined Aug 2007
522 Posts
Lazyzeros tool has an extra Menu point for x copters, they are Not listet under the Quattros.
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Old Jul 31, 2011, 07:22 AM
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Joined Jan 2007
537 Posts
@rcjose

Sounds like your yaw gyro is reversed. When you arm the motors do you pull down and left or down and right? If you need to pull down and left then you need to reverse the Yaw gyro.

1) If you used the X copter firmware from post 73 that is fine - I have just used it building my first ever quad on a HK KK board.

2) If you scroll down the types there is an option for XCopters

3) Depends which one you select

4) Don't use 4.6 / 4.7 is better.

Take your props off and follow this guide to the point when you are sure your motors are in the right order, turning the right way and the gyros are behaving correctly.

http://www.rcexplorer.se/page14/kkgu...ide/quadx.html

Then set your pots to 50% - 0% - 50% and try another test flight. Make sure the quad is on a level surface as the gyros calibrate when the throttle leaves zero. Also make sure that you have individually callibrated each ESCs throttle range*

* Plug them one at a time into the throttle of your Rx. Turn your Tx on and throttle up to full. Then connect the battery, wait for some beeps to finish - move the trottle back to zero - wait for more beeps then disconnect the battery and move on to the bext ESC.

Really take your time with the guide I linked to. I rushed through my setup thinking I knew it all and had a quad that flipped like a pancake to start with.

Check your motors are in the correct order and then check again

Check the direction of rotation for each is correct and then check again and check your props while you're at it (and then check them again).

Read the guide and understand what motors should do what when you tilt the copter in different directions and then read it again.

Check your gyros are making the motors behave correctly and then check again.

--once you are happy, check it all one more time.

When you go for the next test launch, make sure the copter is flat and level. Ease the throttle on and let the motors speed up then give it a little more and be active on the right stick to balance the copter out as you get airborn. If it doesn't feel right ease back down don't chop.

Good luck.

Edit: The mistakes I made Hall of Shame

1. Motors in the wrong order because I built it as a stock HK KK +Copter and didn't notice that the order is very different in 4.7

2. Yaw gyro reversed - spinning copter

3. Motors rotating the wrong way - because I didn't double check after fixing problem 1

4. Trying to test fly of an uneven surface - if the gyros don't know what level is like on the ground they can't be expected to know it in the sky.

5. and finally, thinking I was ready for some FFF action and cartwheel of deathing my HK frame. No electrics damaged and aluminium arms being constructed.

Learning curves are steep and sometimes costly.
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Last edited by Katch; Jul 31, 2011 at 07:31 AM.
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Old Jul 31, 2011, 01:42 PM
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French Riviera - Mougins
Joined Nov 2007
43 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by rcjose View Post
I setup my HK KK board with The Qadrocopter V4.7X firmware from post #73 and when i could finally get off the ground it kept spinning counterclockwise and went out of control and of course, badly damaged. I confirmed all the pots, gyro's, tx trims etc but no luck

Before I reload any firmware to my new build:

1. Is the Xcopter V4.7 and the QuadcroCopter 4.7 that are in LazyZero's flash tool the same firmware and if not which should I use for an X configuration?

2. In the flashtool, there is only one Quadrocopter V4.7 firmware. Is that an X or + configuration?

3. Is the Xcopter V4.7 in the flashtool an X or +?

4. Is the Quadrocopter V4.6 that is in the flashtool an X or a +?

Thanks for any answers you can provide!!
In the LazyZero's flash tool, all firmwares named "Xcopter " are for X mode and all names "Quadrocopter" are for + mode.

Then, the correct answers are :
1. They are the same except that one is for the X mode and the other for the + mode and you should use Xcopter for the X mode
2. +
3. X
4. +
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Old Jul 31, 2011, 02:54 PM
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United States, TX, Richmond
Joined Aug 2010
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Katch and Riva, thanks for the replies. Well, I got it fly much better and at one point is stayed in an even hover but then it drifted. Now, it's a bit windy outside so that could be a factor and of course I need to practice.

Per your suggestions, here is what I have done so far:

Followed the guide by rcexplorer (Dave from Sweden) from the beginning.
I re-calibrated my Eceed RC TX including trims (did not do trims last time)
Flashed HK board with QuadroCopter 4.7X from post #73 in this thread
Reversed the pots because full CW setting was 0
Reverse YAW gyro as arming was to the left on the throttle stick
Motors are #1 top left #2 bottom left #3 top right #4 bottom right
Motors #1 and #4 are rotating clockwise and have counter rotate props
Motors #3 and #2 are counter rotating and have normal props
Pots are now set to Yaw: 60% Pitch: 20% Roll: 60%
I calibrated the ESC's all at the same time through the KK HK board
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Old Jul 31, 2011, 02:58 PM
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Joined Jan 2007
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@rcjose

sounds like you're doing fine.

These KK boards won't hands off hover very long as they have no accelerometers and the gyros tend to drift a little anyway.

Get your copter as well balanced as possible now, props and frame and this will help with a more stable hover.
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