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Old Jun 21, 2011, 09:25 PM
If it flies, I will crash it
mxspode's Avatar
USA, CO, Westminster
Joined Jan 2008
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Quote:
Originally Posted by whakahere View Post
I would love firmware for the tri as well that fits on a hk board as that was what I was looking to build. My hk kk board arrived today and I didn't know that the current firmware didn't fit on this board.

I am new to multi copters .... pretty new to copters in general. I have only been a fixed wing pilot at the moment (mainly FPV). well I do own a blade msr ... but i suck at flying it and .... it has the toilet bowl effect so I stopped flying it.

Where would be a good place to find information on how to go about building and setting up a tri copter or is it better that I head in the quad direction? I have all the parts suggested from http://rcexplorer.se/ I have 4 motors, 4 escs, hk kkboard, props .... just lack the knowledge.
A good source for basic info on building a Tri, or at least a good starting point would be Signguys Build a Tri-Copter thread. Very simple, very easy builds there and very informative.

By the way, if your MSR has a bad case of the toilet bowls replacing the flybar will usually clear it up.

Rob...
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Old Jun 21, 2011, 11:56 PM
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United Kingdom, Wales, Gwaun-Cae-Gurwen
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really looking forward to the x-mode firmware! when you think it'll be ready kaptein?
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Old Jun 22, 2011, 12:08 AM
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just make it yourself. its just changing the mixing. source is included.
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Old Jun 22, 2011, 12:40 AM
Master of Flash
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Alsdorf/Eifel, Germany
Joined Jun 2005
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kapteinkuk View Post
I need some feedback from you all: Does this firmware arm with your radio without having to trim the throttle?
I had to trim two clicks on throttle to arm, using a Multiplex Royal Pro. I also have to yaw left for arming on the hk board, same for hk default 4.5 and 4.6 firmware

Quote:
Originally Posted by whakahere View Post
Cheers Christian, Sadly as of this time my German isn't the greatest (damn English speakers huh .. but I am in a full time german course to fix that). I am off on holiday to the lakes above Berlin for three weeks so I hope there will be a new firmware coming out. Do you think it is better to build a tri or a quad for my first multi copter? I am looking to FPV it .. nothing special apart from flying around. building is not a concern as I like to build planes anyway ... just build my 5th fpv plane ... this time a divinity FPV wing. taking this sucker north with me

Cheers James
James good opportunity to use your German skills
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Old Jun 22, 2011, 12:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kapteinkuk View Post
I need some feedback from you all: Does this firmware arm with your radio without having to trim the throttle?
I have futaba 8fg and it arms and disarms with no trim adjustment

thanks for the firmware
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Old Jun 22, 2011, 01:04 AM
OlliW
Joined Sep 2009
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kapteinkuk View Post
The I term is reset when throttle is at zero.
aahhh... indeed... I have overlooked that... thanks for clarifying

So my conclusion would be that in micktol and manuLRKs cases their problem arises because their Tx Throttle range does not allow them to get below the implemented 1% limit -> trim throttle to a lower max value

Quote:
Originally Posted by OlliW View Post
- one could introduce a dead band, such that a stick position very near to the center is assumed to be center (I had good experience with 5-10us)
Quote:
Originally Posted by kapteinkuk View Post
That will not work goo when you have to use trims.
well, I guess here I have a different opinion... it helps exactly when things are not perfectly trimmed (here I also consider a drift of the gyros as detrim).

But the above procedure does avoid the problem of unintentional I-build-up

Quote:
Originally Posted by kapteinkuk View Post
I had anti wind-up in mind, but I did not have problems with that. I can put it in if it gets problematic
well, in most modes of operations its not necessary, however, in e.g. aggressive flying, e.g. if flipps are performed faster than what the gyro sensor can detect, a large I will build up. Sure, depending on flight style and capabilities of the quad this is more of a protective thing and not a mandatory thing... but, on the other hand, it doesn't hurt.... (hence I always implement it)

Just my humble two cents... its anyway a most cool project you have created
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Old Jun 22, 2011, 02:09 AM
manuLRK
Belgium
Joined Sep 2004
1,528 Posts
Yep, no problem on futaba.

Nice to have IMHO:
  • Stick zero center (i hate trimming, and will be good for all Tx's...)
  • I-term for yaw : it makes a huge difference!
  • And setting "ScaleStick" = 3 .. 6 via sick input while arming and save it to eprom (3 = roll/pitch stick in upper left corner, 4=roll/pitch stick in upper right corner, ...)
  • Setting roll/pitch gain equal via roll pot and setting I gain via pitch pot
  • Forsee limits, you never know


Thanks,
manu

Quote:
Originally Posted by kapteinkuk View Post
I need some feedback from you all: Does this firmware arm with your radio without having to trim the throttle?
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Last edited by alll; Jun 22, 2011 at 02:21 AM.
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Old Jun 22, 2011, 07:20 AM
Quad Whisperer
Joined Jul 2008
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Originally Posted by nasgul View Post
really looking forward to the x-mode firmware! when you think it'll be ready kaptein?
When I have refined the + firmware. Probably not to long
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Old Jun 22, 2011, 07:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LazyZero View Post
I had to trim two clicks on throttle to arm, using a Multiplex Royal Pro. I also have to yaw left for arming on the hk board, same for hk default 4.5 and 4.6 firmware
If the the arming is to the left, your propellers is going opposite of the intended direction, which is CW on front, back and CCW on the left, right.

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Old Jun 22, 2011, 07:41 AM
Quad Whisperer
Joined Jul 2008
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OlliW View Post
aahhh... indeed... I have overlooked that... thanks for clarifying

So my conclusion would be that in micktol and manuLRKs cases their problem arises because their Tx Throttle range does not allow them to get below the implemented 1% limit -> trim throttle to a lower max value
It is not possible to arm if the throttle does not go below the 1% limit.
Quote:
well, I guess here I have a different opinion... it helps exactly when things are not perfectly trimmed (here I also consider a drift of the gyros as detrim).

But the above procedure does avoid the problem of unintentional I-build-up

well, in most modes of operations its not necessary, however, in e.g. aggressive flying, e.g. if flipps are performed faster than what the gyro sensor can detect, a large I will build up. Sure, depending on flight style and capabilities of the quad this is more of a protective thing and not a mandatory thing... but, on the other hand, it doesn't hurt.... (hence I always implement it)
I-wind-up (sound like a bad apple product! ) does only occur if the commanded rotation around the axis cannot happen (when sitting on the ground, or restricting the quads movement by holding it firmly), or happens too slowly. On the roll and pitch axis this is not likely to happen because the rotation force is strong, but on the yaw axis the force is low, and build up happens. The quad will then over rotate when the stick is released, even with a wind-up limit. Maybe I will work with a really low limit.

I will make a new version with adjustable I-term, I-term on the yaw, and wind-up limit, so you gents have something to tweak on!

Quote:
Just my humble two cents... its anyway a most cool project you have created
Thanks!
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Old Jun 22, 2011, 07:46 AM
Quad Whisperer
Joined Jul 2008
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alll View Post
Yep, no problem on futaba.

Nice to have IMHO:
  • Stick zero center (i hate trimming, and will be good for all Tx's...)
  • I-term for yaw : it makes a huge difference!
  • And setting "ScaleStick" = 3 .. 6 via sick input while arming and save it to eprom (3 = roll/pitch stick in upper left corner, 4=roll/pitch stick in upper right corner, ...)
  • Setting roll/pitch gain equal via roll pot and setting I gain via pitch pot
  • Forsee limits, you never know


Thanks,
manu
I will see what I can do
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Old Jun 22, 2011, 12:05 PM
OlliW
Joined Sep 2009
1,408 Posts
Quote:
I-wind-up ... does only occur if the commanded rotation around the axis cannot happen ..., or happens too slowly
, or is outside of the measurement range of the sensor... (which is not usually mentioned in "text books")

...some of the flips in some of the aggressive sports flying videos I watched look pretty fast... 500/s (Murata) sounds like a heck, but from own experience with helis I know that 440/s (Invensense) is not "impressive"...

Quote:
Maybe I will work with a really low limit.
one might even wish to set it very low on purpose... in the MultiWii competitor it is set to something like 80 if I recall correctly... the effect is then that in fast rotations the controller becomes effectively a P controller, which is hardly felt by any pilot except of maybe the few very gifted ones.

I for myself use limits slightly below the max value of the (possibly normalized) adc gyro sensor reading.

Thanks for sharing, Olli
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Old Jun 22, 2011, 12:11 PM
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Are there any limitations to the HK quad controller that we should be aware of? How does it compare to the black boards?
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Old Jun 22, 2011, 12:22 PM
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Alsdorf/Eifel, Germany
Joined Jun 2005
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kapteinkuk View Post
If the the arming is to the left, your propellers is going opposite of the intended direction, which is CW on front, back and CCW on the left, right.

Ha, you are right. The CCW where on front-back. I used the Quad in X mode before, during the switch to + I rotated to the wrong direction. What a mess.

Thanks again

Christian
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Old Jun 22, 2011, 12:40 PM
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Joined Sep 2010
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Just dreaming, would it be possible to squeze code for an accelerometer also on the kk boards? That bma020 is very cheap at 5 euro ...
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