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Old Feb 17, 2013, 12:24 AM
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Raleigh, NC
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Hi Rem,

I'm no expert and am a late comer to this conversion, but I will be happy to give you my two cents. This model is technically a Giant Scale model aircraft and weighs about fourteen pounds, all up for flight, and as has been pointed out to me, it doesn't get any lighter toward the end of the flight. It has no flaps and a normal approach speed is fairly quick. The approach must me relatively flat, as it does not want to leave the sky, even with the power off.

I'm not the best pilot in the world, but I'm pretty sure if I was up against an eighty foot runway limit, I couldn't do it. Perhaps you have seen videos of this aircraft landing, but if not, you can see the maiden of mine at https://vimeo.com/43800147 by using the password paulwaco.

We have eight HUNDRED feet of runway, and the landing on the maided was made at a slightly higher than normal speed. As a reference in the video, the strips of tall grass between the taxiways from the pits to the runway are about 68 feet long. The distance from the middle of one taxiway to the next is 82 feet.

Like I said, eighty feet would be tight for me. Perhaps, if the grass is not freshly mowed to slow you down and you have clear approaches, and a few knots of headwind, and . . . .

Don't be discouraged. Build the model, it is beautiful and flies like a dream. You just need to find somewhere else to fly it.

It might help others comment if you have any videos of your flying the Beaver, etc., at your strip.

Best regards,

Paul
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Old Feb 17, 2013, 09:57 AM
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BIG LACY's Avatar
United States, FL, Orange Park
Joined Oct 2006
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Hey Paul, very nice video !! Love that field! I know my Waco would need at least 150 ' to land and that would take skills I don't have. Rem this is not!! a good choice for a small field. BL
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Old Feb 17, 2013, 11:45 AM
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Tama, Iowa USA
Joined Dec 2007
576 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rem Fodder View Post
Hi all, I've been reading through this thread and would like to say well done to all who have ventured forth in the electric power conversion of this model. I have been looking at this kit which is on sale at a LHS and been thinking about pulling the trigger on one. My question for you chaps flying your Waco's is how much of a roll out is required on landings? My field is short, about 80 feet in length and grass. Would this model be too much for my strip? I fly at home, and unfortunately cannot make the strip any longer. It is satisfactory for all my electrics currently, but this would be a big step up, more in the weight category than wingspan (my E-Flite Beaver is about the same span, and 1/2 the weight). Also, I prefer more scale like flying so overpowering it is not what I'm looking for. The E-Flite power 90 seems like a suitable match, but the cell count is beyond what I can currently charge. Any other good recommendations for about 1200 -1500 watt power options?

Thanks,

Rem
Rem, 80 feet might be cutting it real close, unless there are no damaging obsticals in case of over-run. just longer grass would not hurt, other than damage to wheel pants. My average roll out is about 30-50 feet, depending on wind. The 'section" of runway I use is about 150', maybe a little less, with my touchdown always occuring 1/2 to 3/5 of the way down, because this thing is a floater. It is hard to get it to stop flying, without a BIG bounce. Just my experience, others may have different experiences.

BTW: My favorite part of flying this plane is doiung touch and goes, so I have been getting in lots of practice in getting it down. Consistant perfection is yet to be gained.
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Old Feb 17, 2013, 08:08 PM
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Canada, ON, Port Hope
Joined Apr 2012
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Thanks guys, I appreciate an honest answer. There is the option of joining a club, I have two that are fairly close by, no more than 20 minutes drive. For me the luxury of flying at home is too much of good a thing, I have been spoiled. There are no obstructions on the approach or the roll out as it is in a hay field. However, my strip is not flat either, there is a crest in the middle and the ground gently slopes either side of it. I liken it to flying off a carrier deck, and it has been great practice for me to be accurate on the landings. My thoughts were this kit might be too big. If you would like a better idea of my location and field size you can see it through the windscreen of my Beaver, this was shot this past week.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...&v=rT2ypbjJ-lQ

Back to the Waco, this is a gorgeous model, the kit from GP looks fabulous in the photos. Currently I have YMF5D on the bench, but it is a foamy of 52", and nowhere near the head turner this kit is. The price at the LHS is good and I thought of picking it up for a future build in a year or two. Anyway, thanks once again for your input.

Rem
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Old Feb 17, 2013, 09:58 PM
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Canada, ON, Port Hope
Joined Apr 2012
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Paul, very nice video! I can see what you mean, I doubt very much that this bird will land on my field with any room to spare. I didn't realize that it would have flying weight of 14 lbs, to be honest I thought it would be lighter than a fuel powered version. Still, it is a heck of a nice kit to consider!

Rem
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Old Feb 18, 2013, 01:27 AM
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United States, NM, Espanola
Joined Nov 2011
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rem Fodder View Post
Thanks guys, I appreciate an honest answer. There is the option of joining a club, I have two that are fairly close by, no more than 20 minutes drive. For me the luxury of flying at home is too much of good a thing, I have been spoiled. There are no obstructions on the approach or the roll out as it is in a hay field. However, my strip is not flat either, there is a crest in the middle and the ground gently slopes either side of it. I liken it to flying off a carrier deck, and it has been great practice for me to be accurate on the landings. My thoughts were this kit might be too big. If you would like a better idea of my location and field size you can see it through the windscreen of my Beaver, this was shot this past week.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...&v=rT2ypbjJ-lQ

Back to the Waco, this is a gorgeous model, the kit from GP looks fabulous in the photos. Currently I have YMF5D on the bench, but it is a foamy of 52", and nowhere near the head turner this kit is. The price at the LHS is good and I thought of picking it up for a future build in a year or two. Anyway, thanks once again for your input.

Rem
Hi Rem,
I've been flyin my Dynam with a 13x6, 5s4000's and just takin off and landing just so I'll be ready for the GP Waco
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Old Feb 20, 2013, 08:56 PM
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United States, NM, Espanola
Joined Nov 2011
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servos

Hey All,
I have two Hitec standard hs 422s' for the rudder and elevator. I've got a boat-load of Futaba S128s' and plan to use them for the ailerons.
What do y'all think?
Thanks,
Dan
Edit... I'll be using a Rimfire 1.20 and the CC ICE 100 ESC w/ 6S 5000mah battery
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Old Feb 20, 2013, 10:03 PM
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Tama, Iowa USA
Joined Dec 2007
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Quote:
Originally Posted by poziovahim View Post
Hey All,
I have two Hitec standard hs 422s' for the rudder and elevator. I've got a boat-load of Futaba S128s' and plan to use them for the ailerons.
What do y'all think?
Thanks,
Dan
Edit... I'll be using a Rimfire 1.20 and the CC ICE 100 ESC w/ 6S 5000mah battery
Dan, the Futaba S128s will be ok for the ailerons, as each one is powered, making four servos. However, at just 43.4 oz.in per on the HS422s, that is nowhere near enough for the elevator and rudder. Doubled/ganged, maybe, but not 1 one each. They don't have the torque to move the surfaces at flying speeds against the airloads. Spend a few dollars and get two servos of at least 75-80 oz.in. torque, or you will be losing more when you trash what's left of the Waco when it can't pull out of a loop or dive, or it goes into a spin because the rudder servo breaks or can't control it during a manuever, or on take-off/landing.
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Old Feb 20, 2013, 10:48 PM
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Canada, ON, Port Hope
Joined Apr 2012
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Stagger, in your opinion, what is the wattage per pound minimum you could expect to fly this kit on? Is the old rule of thumb of 100 watts / lb valid in this application? I'm still sitting on the fence with this bird, and have spent a bit of time recently looking at a number of power systems to get a handle on what might be required for some scale flying. Any thoughts on Scorpion motors? Thanks,

Rem
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Old Feb 21, 2013, 12:04 AM
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Tama, Iowa USA
Joined Dec 2007
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Rem, to be honest, I don't spend much time figuring out "watts per pound" stuff. My math sucks. The plane is designed for a .91 two stroke, 1.20 four stroke, at 12.75-13.75 pounds. When I choose my electric motor, I match it's rating to the nitro motors. Thus, my pick of the Rimfire 1.20. Will it "fly" on a smaller motor? Sure. I think one rated for .90 size will fly it very scale like.Vertical would be limited, a loop would require a slight dive to get speed up, but would be doable. Flight time would be limited because you would be using higher throttle speeds just to maintain flight. Thus, cooling would be critical. Because of drag, I don't think anything smaller would be advised.

I like Scorpion motors, I have one in my BH P-40 .90 size. S 4025-12 on 5 cells spinning APC 15.75x13x3 prop with authority.
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Old Feb 21, 2013, 07:36 AM
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Canada, ON, Port Hope
Joined Apr 2012
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Stagger, once again thanks for your opinion. My exposure so far to electric flight is on kits designed to fly electric from the get go. Plus the planes I have flown the past three years are basically all park flyer style. An electric conversion on a kit such as this is intriguing for me for the technical challenges imposed as well as the physical size and weight of the model. At least you have given me a practical base to move forward on. My thoughts after looking at various power options was to go with something along a 6s pack of 5000 mah or greater and mate it up to a motor of around 1500 watt minimum with a prop around 16-17" dia. Looking at the weight listed on the spec sheet, I am assuming that to be the all up flying weight of the model, plus engine and fuel and not the unassembled weight of the kit. I was basing the wattage requirements on the all up weight.

I have found since coming back to the hobby after sitting on the sidelines for 25 years, to be a challenge in itself just to play catch up with all of the advances in design and the technology out there, not to mention the whole concept of electric powered flight. And I'm loving every minute of it! I really do appreciate folks such as yourself to reach out with patience and lend a helping hand to guys like me.

Rem
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Old Feb 21, 2013, 10:49 AM
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Canada, ON, Owen Sound
Joined Oct 2008
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rem Fodder View Post
Stagger, in your opinion, what is the wattage per pound minimum you could expect to fly this kit on? Is the old rule of thumb of 100 watts / lb valid in this application? I'm still sitting on the fence with this bird, and have spent a bit of time recently looking at a number of power systems to get a handle on what might be required for some scale flying. Any thoughts on Scorpion motors? Thanks,

Rem
IMHO, you can't go wrong on a plane by using the 100w/lb formula for scale planes. At 14 lbs expected, that would be 1400watts.
The Scorpion motors you asked about are some of the very best!! I've had 14 of them to date. Start with the largest "safe" diameter (enough ground clearance) then send Lucien an email telling him what you have, prop size and cell counts you would like to use.
I'd suggest a Scorpion 4025-12 with a 16/10 2 blade Apc electric prop on a minumum 5000/ 6S/ 30C battery with a 80 amps min. Esc (I use the Turnigy Plush 80 with excellent results). You would have the option of going even bigger on the prop as the motor is rated for 2000watts continuous. I used this combo on a 15 1/4 lb Turbo Beaver, spinning a 15/8/ 3 blade for 1420w (94 w/lb, it flew very scale and motor esc combo was basically cold on landing.
Even the Scorpion 4020-16 with a 16/10 will deliver very close to the 1400watts on 6S, but its pretty much maxed out and flight time may be shorter.
I have a little Scorpion 3014/1040 with over 400 flights to date, reoiled the bearings once at 350, runs like new yet. fwiw Doug B
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Old Feb 21, 2013, 11:20 AM
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Canada, ON, Port Hope
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Thank you DB. It was the Scorpion 4025-12 and 4025-16 that I had in mind. Both are estimated at approx 2000 watts, but I would imagine the 4025-16 could turn a larger dia or coarser pitch prop than the 4025-12 for a lower amp rating. Would you even be able to get a 10 minute flight on a 5000 mah 6s pack with this bird? I have played around with the motor calcs, theory is one thing, putting it in to practice is another I'm sure. Anyway, its all good stuff! Thanks.

Rem

How's the snow up in the sound?
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Old Feb 21, 2013, 12:02 PM
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Tama, Iowa USA
Joined Dec 2007
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Rem, I'm averaging 8-9 minutes flight time with mine, 5cell 5000mah 20C Blue Lipos. Usually have 35-40% remaining in batteries. I have flown it for 11 minutes once, doing touch and goes the entire flight, with 25% remaining. I have a rimfire 1.20 spinning an APC 17x8e. I also have an APC 18x8e fit on it, but I get better vertical with the 17". It has more forward speed available than I ever use, most flying done between half and three quarter throttle. Take-offs are just over half throttle.

I use 5cells because 6cells draws to many amps with 17/18 props. % cells give all the rpm and horsepower needed. This plane actually flies in the large trainer catagory, both in weight, airspeed requirements, and flying characteristcs. Check back earlier in this thread for my complete specs. The hardest thing about flying this plane is getting consistant greasers on landing, because there is NO give in the gear.

By the way, you guys are way over-thinking the requirements for this conversion.
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Old Feb 21, 2013, 10:18 PM
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Canada, ON, Port Hope
Joined Apr 2012
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[ By the way, you guys are way over-thinking the requirements for this conversion.[/QUOTE]

Your right, I'm a huge proponent of "keep it simple stupid", should follow my own advice...

If your landing with 25% reserve capacity on a 10 minute flight, then that is pretty good performance in my books. I'm pretty sure I know what I need to do here moving forward. Its really now down to my getting off the fence and scooping up this kit. Now, if I can just persuade my significant other as to why I need another kit.........any advice on that matter guys???

Rem
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