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Old Jul 01, 2011, 09:44 PM
In NY's beautifull hills
staggerwing's Avatar
Binghamton Broome Cty, New York, United States
Joined Jun 2004
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Originally Posted by Staggerflyer View Post
That's an interesting setup. I would think it would be kind of big and bulky for a big one, like all of mine are. And the mounting/securing points better be strong!
Thks for the cowl dia---You can see the cowl/batt/mtr/ESC/ module I designed for my 80" Spit in my blog--removes w/ one pin
The next application for this concept will be in a 80" Kyosho TA 152 Focke Wulf.
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Old Jul 02, 2011, 10:12 AM
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Tama, Iowa USA
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Originally Posted by staggerwing View Post
Thks for the cowl dia---You can see the cowl/batt/mtr/ESC/ module I designed for my 80" Spit in my blog--removes w/ one pin
The next application for this concept will be in a 80" Kyosho TA 152 Focke Wulf.
Staggerwing, just read your blog. Some very nice aircraft there. If I may ask, do you plan on doing a "how-to" on your power system modules?? A step by step would be fantastic for us "non engineers."

Hope to finish up the Waco this afternoon, for maiden this weekend. Still a little more "house work" to do before I can get started, tho.
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Old Jul 02, 2011, 03:50 PM
In NY's beautifull hills
staggerwing's Avatar
Binghamton Broome Cty, New York, United States
Joined Jun 2004
1,126 Posts
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Originally Posted by Staggerflyer View Post
Staggerwing, just read your blog. Some very nice aircraft there. If I may ask, do you plan on doing a "how-to" on your power system modules?? A step by step would be fantastic for us "non engineers."

Hope to finish up the Waco this afternoon, for maiden this weekend. Still a little more "house work" to do before I can get started, tho.
An editor for the AMA magazine requested an article for same which I hope to do w/ the Kyosho TA 152. Sure wish I had access to a CAD system as before retirement making it a whole lot easier.
Thks for the comment on my blog planes --it's a bit out of date.
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Old Jul 02, 2011, 08:36 PM
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Tama, Iowa USA
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OK, got some more done on the Waco today. Got the Dummy motor painted and mounted in cowl, still waiting for glue to set-up. Got to the point where I could get it weighed.

Empty weight, without battery is 11 lbs, 6 oz.

All Up Weight, with battery is 12 lbs, 10 oz.

The instructions say 12.75 - 13.75 lbs, so I came out right on the lower advertised weight. I do not have a reciever battery in it, right now, using the ESC's BEC circuit. Castle ICE 100 ESC. It has a 5 amp switching BEC, and as my flying style is scale type, it should be able to handle it, no problem. Standard servos in the wings, HiTech 311s, and HiTech 645MGs on the tail surfaces. BEC is set on 6.0v. Will be checking voltages/amps to system with logger.

Balance came out spot on without moving anything!

Still need to cut out and install N- number stickers, and install final trim pieces. Need to call Tower Hobbies to see about getting new turtledeck fairing. Mine is badly warped, as if it was pulled from vacuum forming machine while still to warm. One entire side is collapsed over onto other side. But I can fly it without it. No mess with electric.

I also need to cut some air outlet holes in botoom of fuse behind lower wing, to let the battery cooling air get out. Don't want to cook it!

Will do the static power tests with the meter inline tomorrow, before going to field.

Some more pics.
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Old Jul 03, 2011, 11:46 PM
Tim Lampe; Hobbico R&D
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Champaign, IL
Joined Dec 2009
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Hey Staggerflyer.

Nice thread. I just stumbled upon this. I'm running the same motor in my Great Planes Venus II ARF that I converted to electric a few years ago. I wish I was at work where I keep all my data, but I have lots of data for this setup. I'll try to remember what I had...

Rimfire 1.20 (50-65-450kV). APC 17 x 8E. I run a Phoenix HV85. 6S, 3300mAh.

I believe I was pulling around 85A static, about 1914 Watts, 7,750rpm. I think I was around 70A max in the air. A flight, with careful throttle management (using full-throttle only when necessary--during up lines, etc), was around 43A if memory serves.

If you would like the rest of the info (mainly confirmation about the average current draw in the air, Amps/minute so you can time your flights accordingly) I'll post on Tuesday.

In the mean time, nice looking Waco and good luck!

P.S. I speculate that 18 x 8 might be a little too much, but as long as you get your numbers (current draw) before you fly so you know what you have, and if you are careful with the throttle so as not to overheat the motor you should be okay.

Tim
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Old Jul 04, 2011, 01:03 AM
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Tama, Iowa USA
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Thanks for that info, Tim.

Made the maiden today! But not without problems, I'm afraid.
First, like an absolute dummy, I left the prop on while doing final throw setups. Since I am using the internal BEC, the motor battery was in, and I accidently armed the ESC while doing the rudder... Right off the table she went! My new Xoar electric wood prop quickly became firewood, and a small crack appeared on the inside of one wheel pant. It traveled about ten feet before hitting the ground, which was about how long it took me to get the throttle back to off. The guys watching me counted that as the maiden.

After recovering from that fiasco, and finishing the setups without the prop in place, I mounted a new Zinger 18x8 prop and power meter and did the static tests... ona test stand, of course. First off, 6 cells is to much for the 18x8, static amps were over 100 amps. The meter I used was a 100 amp meter and wouldn't register higher, so I don't know actual. Yes, I do have a 130 amp meter, but wasn't expecting that high. I changed to a 5 cell battery and drew 86 amps, so that's what I used for the flight.

Temps were in the low 80's, threatening skies, humidity in the high 70's, maybe low 80's, wind variable at less than 5mph. Easy on the throttle, airborne in less than 25 ft at half throttle. First thing I noticed was it was way out of trim. Needed almost full up trim, and almost full right aileron trim. Maybe one click right rudder. Once trimmed, it was smooth and super responsive, at the low rate settings. A roll was smooth, the loop was effortless at half throttle. Then I rolled inverted, and when I gave slight down to maintain, the battery hatch flew off!!! Luckily landed in the middle of the cross runway. I landed immediately, and the first landing was a bouncer. I used the petromat for the first take-off and landing.

After changing batteries, setting a lower movement on the throws, and adding some expo, checking balances wondering why so much trim was required, found the lateral balance was off by a couple ounces! Something to work on at home. Still don't know why so much up elevator required. Will do incedence checks tomorrow. Out for another flight.

This time we took off from the grass, and again, she leaped into the air at half throttle, on a straight but agressive climb out. Did a few camera passes, then a few effortless manuevers, and tried for a better landing. Kept it over the grass, and did a perfect wheel landing.

Taxied back, checked a few things, then took off again, this time concentrating on a more scale take-off. Less throttle and no up elevator gave us a perfect take-off. I noticed the rudder was not hardly needed. After coming around, I did a pull to vertical going to full throttle in the pull, and let it climb. Maybe 100-150 ft, before reaching terminal, then doing a hammerhead to come back down. Very little roll coupling/opposite aileron almost not needed. Another pass or two with some Cuban eights, and time to land. Timer set at 5 mins. Another smooth wheel landing.

Lessons learned: LEAVE PROP OFF when doing adjustments!!!! Or better yet, use run up stands, or tie plane down.
Double check balances in both fore/aft and lateral directions. And check incidences/twist. (No, I haven't looked into them, yet.) Normal CG check was spot on.
Make sure you have the low rate settings suggested set up before test flight, and use them on the test.

I will also download logs from the ESC tomorrow.

For now, videos are here -
Waco Maiden Video (3 min 12 sec)

and here -
Waco second flight (5 min 0 sec)
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Old Jul 04, 2011, 07:35 AM
In NY's beautifull hills
staggerwing's Avatar
Binghamton Broome Cty, New York, United States
Joined Jun 2004
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Congrats on the maiden--yup, definitely remove prop when armed in a no-fly situation, especially when programing ESC . Any chance the up elev req may be due to tail heavy ? My expirence w/ bipe ARF's is no wing/stab incidence info is ever provided so what you end up with is it, but usually for a sport bipe the bottom wing is level or maybe 1/2 deg pos w/ stab & top wing is 1 1/2 to 2 deg pos..
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Old Jul 04, 2011, 09:57 AM
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United States, FL, Orange Park
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Staggerflyer, Check Elevators, on mine even tho the balancers(front of elevators) line up perfect,the rear right on mine is higher than the left. In other words warped. Hope this makes sense . BL
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Old Jul 04, 2011, 10:12 AM
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Tama, Iowa USA
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Thanks guys. Will check both suggestions.
SW, I double checked cg, it hangs level. Wouldn't tail heavy require down elevator trim?
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Old Jul 04, 2011, 11:44 AM
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Tama, Iowa USA
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Just downloaded the logs, and here are some points. This is for those fairly new to electric, and to give some guidelines.

Using the 18x8 prop on 5 cells, the max amps pulled in real life was 95.7 the instant the throttle was opened for the first take-off in the second flight, altho' the throttle was just above 1/2. This fell off instantly, barely one second, to the 60's thru the take-off. That was also the point of max watts, 1776w. The only time the throttle was at 100% was in the vertical climb after the second take-off, which occured five minutes into the total flight. RPMs thru the climb were maintained in the 6970-6800rpm range. Max rpm seen was 7216 thru the flight. Max amps pulled in the climb was 93, for the entire manuever amps were in the 93-89 range lasting 3.5 seconds, well within burst limits, but still high. The controller temp reached 145 degrees thru the continuous cuban eights, but cooled off to the 130s quickly. The average temp was 122.

So, static tests will show what you will pull in max manuevers, but, depending on flying style, those are only pulled for short seconds. I also think an 18x6 prop will work better.

Well, just checked the weather, it's much better than forecast yesterday, so I'm going flying! Later, guys.

Don
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Old Jul 04, 2011, 11:53 AM
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Two elevator servos

Had to add one to right side ele. as when pull up had way more up on right side. No maiden yet, I keep finding things to fix( warped ele.) Taxi test was great, defiantly need low rates for rudder,how is it airborne? Final all up weight is 13# with 8s.working on front hatch door as buggered it up when made cutout. She is also dead on the recommended CG. Will post pics later today.BL
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Old Jul 04, 2011, 12:03 PM
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Hey Don, I have extra turtle deck, If you want it just let me know. Got it when they sent replacement Fuselage.Lacy
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Old Jul 04, 2011, 09:19 PM
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Tama, Iowa USA
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Originally Posted by BIG LACY View Post
Had to add one to right side ele. as when pull up had way more up on right side. No maiden yet, I keep finding things to fix( warped ele.) Taxi test was great, defiantly need low rates for rudder,how is it airborne? Final all up weight is 13# with 8s.working on front hatch door as buggered it up when made cutout. She is also dead on the recommended CG. Will post pics later today.BL
Hmm, mine work perfectly.
What prop are you running? I think you'll want an 18x6. I need to get one, the 18x8 is to fast but doesn't pull in the vertical. Need to get the Xoar electric wood prop. You should have plenty of rpm. I find this plane prefers to fly slow, not fast. It is quick, set your low rates about a 1/4" less than called for. It is still very active. Do set the high settings, also, but only use them on maxi type manuevers. I did a knife edge today, and it handles it very well. Some aileron and elevator are required, but not much.

I'm thinking the recommended cg is actually nose heavy. I tried to spin it, full throws, both directions, power off. It wouldn't enter spin. It also would not do a high speed stall on max elevator loops, that were about 8-10 ft in diameter. That tells me it's nose heavy. My P-6e won't, either. I am going to try to move it back a little, and see what happens.

Two flights on the Waco today. After the first flight, while sitting at the BS table, I looked at the N struts, and noticed on was bowed on the front leg. It happened to be the one the trim was counter-acting. I found the upper bracket did not sit flat on the wing surface. I remved the strut, bent the bracket a little, and the twist was gone. Was able to remove about half the aileron counter trim on the second flight. Also did two beautiful landings, the second one a three pointer. I'm loving this plane. You will too. It's really a pussy cat if you keep it the airspeed down.

I need to make bigger air exit cutouts on bottom of fuse, too.
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Old Jul 06, 2011, 05:03 PM
Flying electric since 1986
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USA, IN, Brownsburg
Joined Oct 2000
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Originally Posted by warhead_71 View Post
Nice conversion. It's a bit late to suggest now, but I am considering building a slide-out motor/battery module when I convert my 1/6 scale Sterling Stearman. I think this method would work great for most any electric conversion where you don't want to cut a battery hatch.
T&J Models uses a nice sliding tray on their 1/12 and 1/8 Waco YMF's:

T&J Models 1/8 Waco YMF Battery Access (0 min 45 sec)
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Old Jul 10, 2011, 08:07 AM
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Tama, Iowa USA
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I want to thank Big Lacy for sending me his spare turtledeck fairing. Mine was totally unusable, and altho' I hadn't called Tower Hobbies yet, I was concerned they wouldn't replace it because it is part of the fuselage package. Not saying they wouldn't, was just thinking it. Thanks again Big Lacy. It is now glued on.

I do not plan on redoing the N number on one with two-tone numbers again. Just finished making the numbers from red and black trim sheets. Don't look at them from close up!!!
Standing back a few feet they look ok, but up close, not so much. (I am NOT an artiste!!!) Will post finished pics later, after I take them.

Where are some flight reports of the other builds mentioned??? This is an open thread, intended for group participation. C'mon, guys. I know here are more ready to go out there. Tower is out of the kits again till mid-August.
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