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Old Oct 08, 2011, 11:21 AM
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Sam,

Perfect group of photos, Thank you.

I understand from your final comment a successful high speed test

Okay, I'll stand by for further high speed data. In the mean time, I now have sufficient information to finalize the new design.

Many thanks,

Kelly
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Old Oct 22, 2011, 08:08 AM
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Chiba, Japan
Joined Jan 2002
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Enjoying the discussion a lot.

I had a chance to see the original drone at public seminar here. The developer, Fumiyuki Sato introduced and demonstrated it. It was flying amazingly stable.

DC EXPO2011 ConTEX 防衛省 球形飛行体 デモ (6 min 4 sec)


He wanted to develop a ball shaped drone which can roll on the ground and fly. He spent 16 months and 7 experiments for now. Current model has CPU managed control with 3 gyros but it seems he can hover stably without it (up to recent experiments.)

That session was very informative and fun. He built it with readily available materials (total cost of current unit is USD 1,400 including styrene board and pet bottle.)

Satoru
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Old Oct 22, 2011, 11:08 AM
DIY Mania from Taiwan
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Originally Posted by ssatoru View Post
Enjoying the discussion a lot.

I had a chance to see the original drone at public seminar here. The developer, Fumiyuki Sato introduced and demonstrated it. It was flying amazingly stable.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PVo-LabY_o4

He wanted to develop a ball shaped drone which can roll on the ground and fly. He spent 16 months and 7 experiments for now. Current model has CPU managed control with 3 gyros but it seems he can hover stably without it (up to recent experiments.)

That session was very informative and fun. He built it with readily available materials (total cost of current unit is USD 1,400 including styrene board and pet bottle.)

Ssatoru
Ssatoru-san:
Thanks for sharing with nice video and pictures,we all respect Sato-san for his fantastic invent of the BALL DRONE,it takes a real aerodynamics expert
to build the craft,he is a GENIUS
Hondouni aligadougozaimasu
Konbanwa
Sam
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Old Oct 22, 2011, 08:17 PM
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Chiba, Japan
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Hello Sam-san,

Glad to hear you like the video. I was impressed Sato-san has been working on this project under not well funded environment, achieving objectives step by step. He could not hover stably until 3rd experiments. Ball shaped drone is achieved at 4th build.

I wish he can accomplish further.

This person's video covers whole session on previous day (it was 3 day event.) He introduced how he came up the idea, history of development and future vision with many videos.

【DCEXPO】防衛省技研本部が研究中の球型飛行体の紹介(1/2) (14 min 30 sec)

【DCEXPO】防衛省技研本部が研究中の球型飛行体の紹介(2/2) (8 min 49 sec)



I admire your effort! Subarashiidesu. Around 8:10 in the first of 2 video, Sato-san showed crash scene at the first flight, showing styrene outer frame damage. Yours are built more robust!

Arigatougozaimasu.

Satoru

Quote:
Originally Posted by samwei1950 View Post
Ssatoru-san:
Thanks for sharing with nice video and pictures,we all respect Sato-san for his fantastic invent of the BALL DRONE,it takes a real aerodynamics expert
to build the craft,he is a GENIUS
Hondouni aligadougozaimasu
Konbanwa
Sam
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Old Oct 22, 2011, 09:06 PM
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Mr. Sato

Satoru,

I noticed no mention of the 8 spoilers in any drawings, including the patent. Did he talk about the spoilers during this presentation?

I figured out how how the spoilers work and Sam tested them. This is an amazing implementation of an aerodynamic dampening system.

Do you think Mr. Sato would comment on this forum about this craft?

Do you know how to contact Mr. Sato?

Thanks for posting this information! I've spend a great deal of time trying to understand this fantastic device. I specially like the canard control configuration and the spoilers.

Regards,

Kelly
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Old Oct 22, 2011, 10:09 PM
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Hi Kelly,

That spoiler remains mystery. I do not think he mentioned it.

In the first part of session video in my previous post at around 13:00, he showed first successful hover with #3 experiment. It does not have the spoiler. (He mentioned he improved autonomous flight control response time so he was using some processor control at that time?) It does not look like #4 experiment (at around 13:30) has spoiler yet.#5 experiment is for glide test. He should come out the spoiler at later stage.

It was interesting to understand why he chose 'canard' configuration. (He did not use word canard either.) He explained he wanted to place control surface at the fore of CG to have the same control in the air and on the ground. (attached slide.)

I wish I can contact him, too. I have not seen him in the net. I am advising local RC magazine to contact him for interview, let's see how it works..

Satoru
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Old Oct 23, 2011, 12:27 PM
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Hi !
With pleasure I was following this thread.
Slowly starting to build my own flying ball.
Latest video is clearly showing than shape of ball is kind of airfoil.
On the video You can see him showing CG of the single panel and is GLIDING ability.
Regards
Tom
CofG (0 min 18 sec)
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Old Oct 24, 2011, 07:08 AM
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Originally Posted by corocopter View Post
Sam,

Would you please look at the sketch I made and tell me if this represents your current wiring configuration.

Thank you,

Kelly
Hi Kelly,

Please help me on this. I don't understand is when you give a pitch input in the above mentioned sketch, how come the bottom 4 vanes are moving together(in Sam video)? Thought pitch is y to servo and a mixer that with rudder input and finally to only two bottom servo. same go for ail input.

Thanks in advance.


Regards

Ivan
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Old Oct 24, 2011, 09:18 AM
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Hi Tom,

Yes, he was emphasizing how CofG is important.
- He explained the drone is a airplane in a ball, not a helicopter.
- He built #5 experiment (non powered) for glide test. See from 13:50 of the first session video.. It shows how he tried to place airplane to fit in a ball, and how he tested.
- He demonstrated
1, Circle shaped paper will not fly.
2, Adding weight and set CG to 20% flies well.
3, Opened holes in the front half of the ball can move CG further back (to 40%). (your video)
He mentioned he added additional wing surrounding the bottom of ball to move the CG to desired 50% (center of the ball).

It is not a copter. Amazing..

Satoru

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tifani View Post
Hi !
With pleasure I was following this thread.
Slowly starting to build my own flying ball.
Latest video is clearly showing than shape of ball is kind of airfoil.
On the video You can see him showing CG of the single panel and is GLIDING ability.
Regards
Tom
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ojeby...=youtube_gdata
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Old Oct 24, 2011, 10:11 AM
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Originally Posted by mp7.5 View Post
Hi Kelly,

Please help me on this. I don't understand is when you give a pitch input in the above mentioned sketch, how come the bottom 4 vanes are moving together(in Sam video)? Thought pitch is y to servo and a mixer that with rudder input and finally to only two bottom servo. same go for ail input.

Thanks in advance.


Regards

Ivan
I don't understand your question, would you please rephrase the question and I'll be happy to respond.

Kelly
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Old Oct 24, 2011, 07:59 PM
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Originally Posted by corocopter View Post
I don't understand your question, would you please rephrase the question and I'll be happy to respond.

Kelly
Hi Kelly,

sorry for that, let's refer to post 169 video by Sam, when he give a input on pitch, the mixing will move the top 2 vanes ( 1 servo) and bottom 4 vanes ( 4 servo). I want to know how to achieve this by just using 2 v-tail mixer? In your earlier sketch your pitch only can move top sevro and 2 bottom servo instead of 4 bottom servo.

Thanks in advance

Regards

Ivan
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Old Oct 24, 2011, 08:39 PM
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Originally Posted by mp7.5 View Post
Hi Kelly,

sorry for that, let's refer to post 169 video by Sam, when he give a input on pitch, the mixing will move the top 2 vanes ( 1 servo) and bottom 4 vanes ( 4 servo). I want to know how to achieve this by just using 2 v-tail mixer? In your earlier sketch your pitch only can move top sevro and 2 bottom servo instead of 4 bottom servo.
Ivan
Ivan / Japanese Ball Drone Enthusiast,

I would like to direct you to Sam's other thread where he combined the Japanese Ball Drone with a Crazy Ball. This device utilized the same canarderon control system and the spoiler system, if you're interested in building either one of these craft this is an excellent resource. I would suggest you read this entire thread, I cover a number of details about the control mechanism that may be useful to you.

Japanese/Crazy Ball Drone Thread:

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1516652

Ivan, please watch this video of Sam's craft mentioned above, I knew this questions about how to configure the control surfaces would surface someday, so I thought it would be good to have Sam give us a video of his fine work showing his ingenious adaption of the control mechanism. Please note that when Sam gives a pitch command, two upper vanes moved to the right, and two lower vanes moved to the left. Please note only two vanes on the bottom and two vanes on the top move for each axis of control. The same thing applies for the roll axis, two lower vanes move in the opposite direction of the upper two vanes.

The lower four vanes can all spiral left or right for Yaw control because there is a Servo for each vane, that's why you see in my wiring schematic a Y adapter, this Y adapter keeps the upper control servos from receiving the Yaw command, you don't want the upper servos to get the Yaw command since you only have one Servo for each axis, pitch and roll, since the servos are interlinking the control vanes there would be no way for them to move into a spiral configuration.

Sam chose to use six servos due to the limitations of the switching BEC. Eight servos could be used, but this would necessitate adding another BEC, and two Servo reversing adapters (to reverse just the yaw axis for both pitch and roll) for the upper control vanes. It is not worth the extra weight and effort to have eight servos.

PICT0526 (1 min 4 sec)


Please review the thread regarding the Japanese/Crazy Ball Drone. I think this will be very helpful for you and the other readers that are planning to copy a drone.

Did I answer your question?

Kelly
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Old Oct 24, 2011, 09:10 PM
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hi Kelly,

I have no problem understanding the Japan/crazy ball setup. this is because the upper vanes and lower vanes are in line, I can do the mixing with just two v-tail mixer without any problem. and for the japan flying ball, the upper and lower vanes are offbset by 45 degree. thus all 4 bottom vanes need to move together when you are give either pitch, roll or yaw commend. I dun think it can be done by just using 2 v-tail mixer. maybe Sam is using a miro controller for the mixing.

Regards
ivan
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Old Oct 24, 2011, 09:17 PM
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Don't worry about the 45 degree off-set between the upper and lower vanes. That make no difference at all. It works exactly as in the Crazy Ball video I just attached. No micro processor either. No tricks, it all very simple. Just ignore the 45 degree off-set.

You can use a KK board but you'll need to set it up as an airplane and then mix the yaw axis back into the pitch and roll with your v-tail mixers for just the lower 4 servos.

Sam, used 3 separate gyro. 1 heading hold, 2 rate gyros.

Did I answer your questions?

Kelly
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Old Oct 24, 2011, 09:32 PM
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hi Kelly,

there are difference. in crazy ball when either you input pitch or roll commend only two bottom vanes will move. in japan flying ball, with the same commend you need all 4 bottom vanes to move. please look at your sketch again. thanks.
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