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Old Oct 20, 2011, 04:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OlliW View Post
I won... LOL
Only because I had to pull out another gyro. When I soldered in my 6 leads the wire I am using is thicker. One of the tiny inner board pins pulled out.
Darnit! I spent some time trying to resurrect the board but no go. Oh well. I am sorting out the correct pin leads on the connector end and will have this up in another minute.
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Old Oct 20, 2011, 05:11 PM
OlliW
Joined Sep 2009
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don't hurry and take your time... these pads are smaller and more sensitive in reality than it looks from the photo... in my first attempt I also got one loose
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Old Oct 20, 2011, 05:30 PM
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First line of code response running avrdude -c ft232sf -P ft0 -p m8 -U lfuse:r:-:i

:01000000FF00


Second line of code response running avrdude -c ft232sf -P ft0 -p m8 -U hfuse:r:-:i


:01000000DC23


It is interesting that every time I run a new line of code I loose my bus Ser connection and have to replug my usb cord in.
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Old Oct 20, 2011, 05:47 PM
OlliW
Joined Sep 2009
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excellent, passed, these are the magic numbers to enter the next level of the game...

"It is interesting that every time I run a new line of code I loose my bus Ser connection and have to replug my usb cord in."
I had teh same experience. I guess that's because we are actually not using avrdude but a "hacked" version of avrdude, so it probably worked perfectly for the guy how did that, and is now "missused" for other things too...

Anyhow, as before this was just the test, now the real thing comes, it's just one line:

avrdude -c ft232sf -P ft0 -p m8 -U lfuse:w:0xBF:m

After that you should run the command

avrdude -c ft232sf -P ft0 -p m8 -U lfuse:r:-:i

again for a test, tell me again the :01000000... line
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Old Oct 20, 2011, 06:09 PM
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Done. The code has been entered, accepted, and the verification avrdude line ran. This is the result.

:01000000BF40
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Old Oct 20, 2011, 06:26 PM
OlliW
Joined Sep 2009
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This was this... you can desolder everything and close the case...

EDIT: äh, sorry, you can desolder the four ISP cables, but have of course to solder the previously connected orange cables back to where they had been before


I suggest to stick with this particular gyromixer for the following. we now can move on and flash the latest firmware on the gyromixer.

Connect the "push-button-assembly" to the usb-ttl adapter, plug the yellow marked servo cable of the gyromixer into the servo plug at the "push-button assembly", connect a lipo to the battery plug at the "push-button assembly", start AVRootloader, set the hex file to

Olliw_GA250_GyroMixer_v020.hex

hit the "program" button, and the press the push-button of the "push-button assembly"...
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Old Oct 20, 2011, 06:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OlliW View Post


This was this... you can desolder everything and close the case...

EDIT: äh, sorry, you can desolder the four ISP cables, but have of course to solder the previously connected orange cables back to where they had been before


I suggest to stick with this particular gyromixer for the following. we now can move on and flash the latest firmware on the gyromixer.

Connect the "push-button-assembly" to the usb-ttl adapter, plug the yellow marked servo cable of the gyromixer into the servo plug at the "push-button assembly", connect a lipo to the battery plug at the "push-button assembly", start AVRootloader, set the hex file to

Olliw_GA250_GyroMixer_v020.hex

hit the "program" button, and the press the push-button of the "push-button assembly"...
Well, now that I have all my gear out and I have pretty much figured out the soldering technique I am still thinking of finishing off the other 3 while I am at it. Might as well.
P.S. I only had to de-solder and move one wire to do this, and that was on your modded batt tender board. Pretty tight in there bro! Nice soldering work by the way. You did some pretty tricky moves!
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Old Oct 20, 2011, 06:56 PM
OlliW
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"Well, now that I have all my gear out and I have pretty much figured out the soldering technique I am still thinking of finishing off the other 3 while I am at it."

OK, so I'll go sleeping then (it's quite late already)

"your modded batt tender board. Pretty tight in there bro! Nice soldering work by the way. You did some pretty tricky moves!"
oha, you used the one with the liposaver hardware... yes, with this one it's pretty tight in there... btw, I have a nice photo gallery showing the "moves": http://www.olliw.eu/2011/ga250-fpkoa...cher/#10082011

good night
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Old Oct 20, 2011, 07:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OlliW View Post
"Well, now that I have all my gear out and I have pretty much figured out the soldering technique I am still thinking of finishing off the other 3 while I am at it."

OK, so I'll go sleeping then (it's quite late already)

"your modded batt tender board. Pretty tight in there bro! Nice soldering work by the way. You did some pretty tricky moves!"
oha, you used the one with the liposaver hardware... yes, with this one it's pretty tight in there... btw, I have a nice photo gallery showing the "moves": http://www.olliw.eu/2011/ga250-fpkoa...cher/#10082011

good night
catch up with you later! I am going to program all four of them up till the end with the final files. You can tell me what I should be seeing tomorrow. But by then all of them will be mounted up, maybe test flown!

Edit: only 3 out of the remaining 4 would program with the avrdude -c ft232sf -P ft0 -p m8 -U lfuse:w:0xBF:m code. Looks like I may have a dead one. Oddly my computer just went stone dead while hitting the enter code tab on one of these and shut down. Never had that happen before! But the Ga250 still took the code when I booted back up. Bloody strange as the Britt's would say.

Interestingly all 4 took the final flash.
Olliw_GA250_GyroMixer_v020.hex from the rootloader.

And as they say down south, 4 outta 5 aint bayd.
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Old Oct 21, 2011, 02:14 AM
OlliW
Joined Sep 2009
1,871 Posts
good morning

nice job, Randy.

"Looks like I may have a dead one"
well, in my experience these Atmel uC are really quite robust, so I would rather guess that something not easily seen was wrong with the electrical connections... I really have done some things to them which one should not do... and for every one which I thought I killed it later turned out that I did just something wrong, in one instance I actually asked a supplier to take back few devices which I just had bought and couldn't get a single one to flash properly, and the supplier indeed took them back and sent new, but in the meantime I realized that I just had set a flag with avrdude incorrectly... so, I think eventually it could be worth a try again.

However, for the moment it's maybe not bad that the fuse is not set for one... at least for me... I mean, if you observe "strange" behaviour for this and only this one it's kind of a proof that setting this fuse is really what solves these issues...

So, now that you have essentially all this hard work to get the right bootloaders, fuse settings, and finally the latest firmwares on the robbe box and gyromixer, I think its time to tell you a bit about the behavior of the gyromixer and the interaction with the robbe box.

First, you have two LEDs, a red one and a blue one (unfortunately the red one is not well seen if the blue is on, look carefully, it's easy to get confused here).

The blue one has ONLY ONE function (with one little exception with which don't want to bother for the moment):
The blue LED is ON whenever a connection to the Robbe Box is established, and OFF if not!
You can see that then also on the robbe box, as it offers you the menu setting in case of connection and tells no connect otherwise.

The red LED tells you about the current STATE of the device.

One basically has to distinguish FIVE different states:

A) Initialization and startup
This is the state after having switched on the gyromixer. The gyromixer first waits for a valid signal to come in from the reciever. I think the red LED is blinking very fast.
Once a rx signal has been detected the gyromixer checks for the position of the Thro stick. I think the LED is blinking fast. To positions can be detected:

Thro fully up (Thro high): if the gyromixer detects thro up at startup it enters the B) Thro range programming mode. That's essentially exactly what you know for the BESCs. That is, as next step you pull the Thro stick to Thro fully down, which makes the gyromixer to store the Thro up and down values of your transmitter/reciever into memory, i.e., you learn it as you do with the BESCs. Once Thro down is detected the two LEDs start blinking alternatively, and the only way to get out of that is to switch off the gyromixer.

IMPORTANTLY, during all times in this this mode the Thro signal from the rx is send through 1 to 1 to the two motor outputs of the gyromixer. That is, in this mode you also can learn BOTH BESCs.

Thro fully down (Thro low): if the gyromixer detects thro down at startup it moves on and enters the various normal operation modes, see next.

Once the initialisation steps have passed, the gyromixer can be in either one of three modes, Thro low mode, Flight mode, and Failsafe.

C) Thro low mode:
This mode is entered whenever the gyromixer detects that the Thro stick is low for longer than 4 seconds. The red light will then permanently go on.

In this mode a signal is output to the motor outputs, but the rudd, gyro, and mixer functions are off.

D) Flight mode:
If the Thro is moved up a tiny bit (3% of the full range if the gyromixer was learned), the gyromixer enters the Flight mode and the red LED goes permanently off. In this mode the motor BESCs get their signals and the gyromixer does what you expect it to do.

E) Failsafe:
If a loss of a valid signal from the reciever is detected, the motor signals are slowly reduced to minimum. However, if within this period a signal is comming in again, the motor signals will go back to what they are supposed to be. During Failsafe, the red LED blinks fast.

IMPORTANTLY: A connection to the Robbe Box is ONLY possible if teh gyromixer is in STATE (A), (B), (C)!

(PS: I will change the code in the near future, because now it means that if you are in Thro low mode (C) and switch off the transmitter, which one may wish to do for e.g. safety, the gyromixer enters failsafe mode (E) and a connection to the robbe box is not possible, which is inconnvenient, hence I will change the code such that in Thro low mode a Failsafe is does not affect the communication with the robbe box. Thanks to Tommy@LA for bringing this up).

Before we go into the parameter settings, I suggest that you familarize yourself with these modes and robbe box connections. A lot of potential later problems/missunderstandings/confusion can be avoided this way.
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Old Oct 21, 2011, 03:18 AM
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Nice writeup to finish this amazing venture. I had the original Ga250 paperwork out earlier but realized that you had probably changed most the program features so I just put it back in the box and waited until you posted up again.
So, when I initially power up (as I had to do on all 4 helis to bind them to my DX7 a few hours ago) I did notice that both lights were flashing in the units and my Turnigy motors were beeping while waiting for the esc's to initialize. I actually ended up pulling off all the leads from the Rx's and powering them up independently using the push button from the TTL power up switch. Handy little tool that may become says Yoda!

I just went through and loaded all the correct setting parameters into my DX7 since my TX is new to the coax's. Now I simply have to calibrate the Ga-250s throttle settings and get them to initialize my Turnigy esc's http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/s...ontroller.html
and I am off and running. I mounted the Ga-250s using zeal tape, so I don't expect too many vibe issues. All the CX platforms are microheli Carbonfibre. I am running Skytec Delrin cnc cut gears, custom extended shafts, my own folding grip mod, and Xtreme blades. They were vibe free balanced, super smooth helis.

These helis are all running 3s 900 and 1000ma nano packs, so I expect full 15minute flight times out of them. I saw your impressive vid of how well the HH works. This is especially critical since all mine are outdoor helis and are regularly flown in very windy conditions. Especially the dual swash helis. They are truly insanely fast.

Now if I can just get the escs to recognize the Ga-250 output signal. But for now, time for me to hit the rack and get some shuteye. Olli, this is very very cool stuff my friend! And your journey of modding them with a pic by pic journal in your site is spectacular. What in ze heck are you using for a camera? Nice work!
Randy
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Old Oct 21, 2011, 04:32 AM
OlliW
Joined Sep 2009
1,871 Posts
"I did notice that both lights were flashing in the units"
well if no robbe box is attached only the red light should flash (I guess flashing means blinking), the blue light should be off
if the robbe box is attached. the red light will do exactly the same, but the blue light should be permanently on, and not blink...

"and my Turnigy motors were beeping while waiting for the esc's to initialize"
"Now I simply have to calibrate the Ga-250s throttle settings and get them to initialize my Turnigy esc's"
"if I can just get the escs to recognize the Ga-250 output signal"
The logic of operation after powering up the gyromixer is in principle simple:
if there is no signal from the reciever, nothing will be output to the motors.
if there is a signal from the reciever, and teh gyromixer detects that its Thro up it enters mode (B) and just passes the Thro rx signal to teh motor outputs
if there is a signal from the reciever, and the gyromixer detects that its Thro down it enters mode (C)
if there is a signal from the reciever, and the gyromixer detects that the Thro is neither up nor down it just waits until it detects either one situation.

Hence, to get your BESCs to recognize the gyromixer and to calibrate it, you just have to power the gyromixer through the BESCs (such that all the electronics are getting power simultaneously) and otherwise just do EXACTLY what you would do to train the BESCs. Transmitter on, Thro stick up, powering up everything in the coax, waiting for the calibration beep signals of the BESCs, thro low... and simultaneously also the gyromixer will be trained...

"What in ze heck are you using for a camera?"
nothing special, one of this little standard ones, I guess its panasonic

EDIT: forgot:
"Nice writeup to finish this amazing venture."
Even if everything is eventually running well, it won't finish - because once it's running well I will ask you (if you agree) to do some test flights which will help me to learn some things...
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Old Oct 21, 2011, 01:36 PM
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Well, interestingly enough, On the first try with lets call it gyromixer 1 the problems continue. Motor A lead works, motor B lead doesn't. If I switch A to motor B it runs.

I will try another mixer and see.
Mixer2 (the one that I did not add the initial patch to): It pulled both motors fine. However it has been well over 6 months since I have flown these. Way too much power for indoor use. It immediately tagged the ceiling, and when I brought it down it now has no movement whatsoever. Even the servos. No power is getting through the gyromixer. No light on the unit even during startup with full throttle on the gymbal.
Mixer3: Outdoor test. It came up fine, both motors equally. HH was fine. For some reason I had no cyclic control to the rear and it tagged my fence. Now the upper rotor will not engage correctly. Very slow and the heli just spins to the left. I plan on recalibrating.
In the absence of flying these I realized that I have become an outstandingly poor pilot. Plus the fact my cyclic servos seem amazingly slow.

Edit: even after recalibrating the upper rotor spins at barely an idle speed, even at FT. Hmm...
If I switch the esc to lead B it runs slow also. So this is an esc or even a mechanical issue.

Geez. When stuff goes wrong, it really goes wrong. This is the first time I have ever lost a newer Turnigy brushless motor. Talk about horrible timing. The hard set down must have shorted something out inside.
http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/s...%5F2900kv.html
The base was quite hot on the motor in question (but I got that handled now), and it just chattered on both esc's at FT. And when I tore it down there was nothing wrong that I could find. Each side of the motor measured the same resistance at 5 ohms. Exactly the same as the good motor. And when I reassembled. It now runs fine. Go figure.
But when I now initialize the system and give it throttle, both motors chatter and barely turn. Pulled the motor leads off the esc's with batt disconnected. Booted up again and now no matter what I try to do, the Ga250s that I added additional programming to will no longer enter into the setup mode with tx at ft. No light, no action. Nada. So far the ga250s have lost any diode lighting even in programming mode.
I know the Rx is working because I have servo movement. And when I plugged #1 ga250 back into the system even though it only runs one channel the A motor would accelerate, slow down, and accelerate all on its own even though the gymbal wasn't being touched at half throttle. Then, nothing. The motors beeped as if they were seeking a signal and the ga250 would not initialize just like the previous tries. I wonder if I should go through the download procedure again? And I also wonder if the esc's I am running may not be compatible with the Gyro mixers? If so, I need 8 new ones.

edit: I also came back and resoldered on the 6pin and tried to download the olliW .020hex file. No go. The gyro has no indicator of life. I may have inadvertently baked these somehow. I did a close inspection of the board and cannot see any obvious problems. I also tried another Rx. Another TX, other batts, another set of esc's, and I ran a program card on the existing esc's.
Like I wrote earlier, if anything is going to go wrong, even if 50 guys have done it before, it is going to go wrong with me.
Sorry for this report Olli. I am convinced it is not a thing you did.
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Old Oct 22, 2011, 03:08 AM
OlliW
Joined Sep 2009
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ohohohohohh... what are you doing man...

in my experience with these things it is not easy to kill these units... and the GA250 is hardware wise well designed and has all the protection things one would expect to see... the motor A and programming lines do however of course not have the protection resistors because that's what the whole mod consists of to add these two connectors... it appears that somewhere in your electronics you must have something which applies overvoltage to one or both of these pins... can't tell what happened

I too have the turnigy 6A ESCs and turnigy 1911 2900kv outrunner... and they just work fine for me... so I wouldn't see an incompatibility issue here

I am running them though at 2S and not 3S... my lama is leightweight... but I remember that the turnigy 6A are not rated for 3S... I guess I would have first double checked the ESCs after the first indications of troubles

I must admit I don't understand how one can kill five units in a row... one, OK, but five! To be honest, I think a more systematic approach would have been more appropriate

You won't own a simple cheap multimeter? If not get one at the next warehouse for 4$...
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Old Oct 22, 2011, 12:44 PM
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Yep, checked with the multimeter. 4.93v per side at the servo connector.
I actually killed 2 of them on the bench during testing. One was the unprogrammed version and only one channel died. Two flew briefly. What I have is an esc pack that is somehow spiking the gyromixer (and also the cheap vtail mixer I threw on) whenever the motor function is interrupted. I have used these 6a escs for well over 2 years running 3s with a different Vtail mixer and had no issues. Just not the ones I tested with since my old set is on my flybarless version. So I am sure it is an esc issue. Odd, that my motor did what it did in the middle of this? When nothing was wrong? For sure the Esc's are faulty. Bad batch? Who knows.
I am bummed.
I thought about it all night. Bad esc's for sure. Not at all the gyromixers. Krap. I already have new ga250s on order to replace these with and new esc's. Now I surely know how to wire and solder these little buggers.
2s? 2s is for weeenieees. Lol.
Sorry, I needed a bad joke. But really, the amperage draw is less using 3s so my esc's stay cooler and so do the motor's. And the flight times are really spectacular, with all that power to boot. When I went back to 2s and flew it was like going from a fast car to a bicycle.
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