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Old Sep 22, 2011, 01:38 PM
Silent Flight
Twyl's Avatar
United States, CA, Cypress
Joined Jul 2005
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I have finally completed my Speedo build and have a couple more suggestions for the manual. I'd have finished this earlier but life got busy for about two months and everything got put on hold.

1st Suggestion:
Swap the build order and do the wing servo install prior to the fuselage.
The reason was that I found the strings in the wings to pull the servo wires through to be a bit of a hassle. What I did to simplify the process was I used the pushrod for the elevator to painlessly pull the strings through. Simply insert the pushrod form the wing root to the servo bay, tape wire to push rod and pull out. The pushrod allows for more precise pulling and eliminates the servo plug getting caught up on any of the inside ribs. Obviously if the elevator pushrod is already installed in the fuse using it for this purpose would be impossible. Not a huge break through, but maybe an alternative suggestion which could be added to the wing install section in case someone else also had issues with the strings like I did.

2nd Suggestion:
Depending on the thickness of servos used in the wing, the servo bay covers that come with the kit can be trimmed around the edges to make the cover more flush with the surface of the wing. I spoke with a few people and it seemed that this was a fairly common step so it might be worth adding as a suggestion.

3rd Suggestion:
It should be noted that there is a high likelihood that the screws closest to the trailing edge used to install the wing servo tray covers may need to be shortened (wire cutters and file) as I noticed mine threatened to poke through the top side. I think this would be the case even if my above 2nd suggestion was not used.

4th Suggestion:
I needed to shorten all 3 of the CF dowels/spars to get them to fit. The wing joining spar was too long by about 5mm due most likely to faulty wing construction. The spar would not go in the same depth for both wings. The wing bolt down protectors were both long as well, the front needed about 1mm sanded off and the rear one was about three times as long as needed.

Anyways, thanks a billion for the work you already have put into the manual. Without it I would have been lost for sure.
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Old Sep 22, 2011, 05:57 PM
Multi Rotor Maniac
Stunt Double's Avatar
Australia, VIC, Melbourne
Joined Oct 2007
2,649 Posts
Twyl thanks for the input. Youve got some good points there. I like the idea of using the elevator pushrod as the wing servo wire puller. I never had any luck with the embedded strings so I use a straightened coat hanger.

Have you maidened your Speedo yet?

Ive got a quiet day at work so its a good chance to update the manual. Twyl have a read after the update and let me know if it makes sense.
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Old Sep 22, 2011, 06:13 PM
Silent Flight
Twyl's Avatar
United States, CA, Cypress
Joined Jul 2005
3,927 Posts
Yeah I did, actually just a few hours ago. I brought it to work with me today and we went to Pt. Fermin for lunch. I was pretty nerves as I haven’t maidened a non EPP plane in forever and that slope is ridiculously hard to retrieve a downed plane from let alone have a controlled mayday landing if somethings not right. Anyways, she came in at 338g with a CG of 76mm. I used the settings in the manual to a T including the two throw rates and differential. While I never needed to jump up to the higher rates for the elevator the ailerons seemed a bit sluggish at the lower rates and so I ended up kicking those to the higher throws.

In a dive she pulled up only slightly which seemed correct, however rolls were slightly less axial than I had anticipated and required down input when inverted. Maybe I need to pull the CG back a tiny bit more, but I’m really a novice at that kind of thing and will need to get some friendly input.

Has the manual been updated now, or are you in the middle of it as we chat? Let me know when it’s done and I’ll give it a read.

If you’re interested here’s a couple links to build post I made in another thread.

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showp...&postcount=952
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showp...&postcount=980
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showp...&postcount=989
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Old Sep 22, 2011, 09:57 PM
Multi Rotor Maniac
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Australia, VIC, Melbourne
Joined Oct 2007
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Havent updated it yet. Your CG is quite far back especially for a maiden but it must have worked for you. I like the Speedo with as much throw as possible. With a large elevator throw you can flick it out of loops.

Your upside down elevator servo is interesting. As for the horizontal stab I wouldnt just tape it in. If that comes loose mid flight its game over.
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Old Sep 23, 2011, 01:11 AM
Multi Rotor Maniac
Stunt Double's Avatar
Australia, VIC, Melbourne
Joined Oct 2007
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OK ive made some more changes most notably the order of construction. This takes into account fitting the horiz. stab later on so it doesnt get damaged while fitting other gear into the fuse also doing the wings first so you can still use the elevator pushrod to pull your servo cables through the wings (great tip btw twyl).
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Old Sep 26, 2011, 01:15 AM
Silent Flight
Twyl's Avatar
United States, CA, Cypress
Joined Jul 2005
3,927 Posts
Looking good Lloydh.

One more additional building hint that isn't specific to this build and which may be common sense to the professional builder but something that I just learned after my Speedo took a nice impact the other day. After screwing the screws for the wing servo covers into the wing once to "tap" the holes, then unscrew and remove the screws and hit each screw hole with some CA. This will harden the wooden threads and helps prevent the screws from ripping out of the holes in case of an impact.

For my Speedo I only used two screws for each servo cover (caddy corner) to hold in the servo covers so this was even more necessary.
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Old Feb 27, 2012, 11:49 AM
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Deleted and moved question.
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Old Mar 07, 2012, 12:57 AM
oxygen theif...
optical's Avatar
Australia, WA, Mindarie
Joined Jan 2004
235 Posts
Just recieved my Speedo - We upto a MkIII now ?

Here are the new bits and pieces included in the kit


A - SERVO COVER SCREWS
B - SERVO EXTENSION WIRES - WING
C - ELEVATOR HORN SCREWS (?)
D - SERVO COVERS - WING
E - ELEVATOR SERVO HOLDER - FUSE (?)
F - VELCRO (use?)
G - PUSHRODS - WING SERVOS
H - THREADED ROD (use?)
I - SCREWS X9 PLUS WASHERS / BOLTS FOR ITEM C
J - NYLON BOLTS - WING TO FUSE
K - WASHERS FOR ABOVE
L - PLYWOOD CUTOUT (use?)
M - LARGE CRUSH TUBE - FOR FRONT WING HOLE
N - SMALL CRUSH TUBE - FOR REAR WING HOLE
O - NOT SURE ? small hole at base that item G could pass through?
P - 3x HORNS - 2x WING, 1x ELEVATOR

Any clarification would be great and pictures of various parts, ie wing servos attached to wings with pushrods, pictures of servo location in fuse, RX etc etc

Also, my kit arrived in a box within a foam box. Everything wrapped in bubble wrap. Kit in great condition but the paint on fuse is a bit average. As if they have painted it, placed tape over then pulled it off before its had time to dry thus taking off a layer - which has then been touched up - shows through

BUT

for price, who cares !
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Old Mar 08, 2012, 01:07 PM
The SteamRoller
USA, CA, Fort Bragg
Joined Oct 2009
331 Posts
Heres how I installed the aileron servos. There are much simpler ways....
This is a much better thread to get help on btw...

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=610030

I didn't have any more than the original manual when I got the kit. I saw online that some people were hot gluing servos in place.
Having never used hot glue, it sounded risky. After much thought, I decided to hard mount them. This did NOT make it easier.
I cut off the covering as you can see, then measured what size balsa pieces I needed and CA'ed the short blocks to the long ones.
Then I installed the servo to both pieces on either side. Next, I CA'ed the whole assembly in place on the wing. I used Airtronics 94803 servos. As you can see in the pic, the balsa rail is too tall. So, I carefully sanded that down. I checked the fit periodically with a piece of MonoKote held down tightly over it to see any wrinkles being made from it being too high. On the second servo, I did the trimming BEFORE I CA'ed it in place! (live n learn) I used some transparent blue I had laying around to cover the holes I had cut in the covering earlier.

Hope this helps.

Douglas Buzby
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Old Mar 08, 2012, 01:19 PM
Silent Flight
Twyl's Avatar
United States, CA, Cypress
Joined Jul 2005
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thesteam View Post
Heres how I installed the aileron servos. There are much simpler ways....
This is a much better thread to get help on btw...

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=610030
Well this thread is geared at making a good manual for those who are new to building. Perhaps if you would care to add some instructions to your picture of how you did what you did and why you did it and how it made it easier or better then perhaps it could be added to the manual.

Oh and if you've read all 138+ pages on the other thread, I'm sure you've come across the many links to this thread pointing people to the great unofficial manual.

-Jonathan
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Old Apr 05, 2012, 12:22 PM
Registered User
USA, CA, Pismo Beach
Joined Oct 2007
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I'm in the process of putting together my new Speedo and wonder if there is a new consensus on aileron throw and differential than what is shown on the first page.

One comment I would add is that when using the stock control horn mounted on the elevator as it should be with the pivot holes aligned with the hinge line, down elevator motion is seriously inhibited. I found it necessary to remove some material from the aft end of the fuselage to allow the pushrod connector adequate forward swing clearance as seen in the attached pic.

I also noted that the elevator servo mount (item E in opticals' picture) was substantially more narrow than the fuselage when attempting mounting up front under the canopy necessitating the addition of a 3 or 4 mm spacer along its' side to secure a good fit. While not a big deal, it is in contrast to the requirement to shave this part down on earlier versions of the kit.
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Old Apr 05, 2012, 01:17 PM
Silent Flight
Twyl's Avatar
United States, CA, Cypress
Joined Jul 2005
3,927 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Greywing View Post
I'm in the process of putting together my new Speedo and wonder if there is a new consensus on aileron throw and differential than what is shown on the first page.

One comment I would add is that when using the stock control horn mounted on the elevator as it should be with the pivot holes aligned with the hinge line, down elevator motion is seriously inhibited. I found it necessary to remove some material from the aft end of the fuselage to allow the pushrod connector adequate forward swing clearance as seen in the attached pic.

I also noted that the elevator servo mount (item E in opticals' picture) was substantially more narrow than the fuselage when attempting mounting up front under the canopy necessitating the addition of a 3 or 4 mm spacer along its' side to secure a good fit. While not a big deal, it is in contrast to the requirement to shave this part down on earlier versions of the kit.
Greywing, I really like your solution to the elevator hinge line issue. What I did to resolve this was to add a small spacer in front of where the horizontal fit in which essentially pushed the horizontal back enough to give me the horn movement I needed.

Regarding differential I don't know if there is any new consensus however the last setting I had which seemed to roll as axial as I could get it was around 50%. Admittedly I did not try a ton of variations but mainly because it flew well enough for my liking.

Interesting to hear your comments on the servo tray though. I noticed this too with the tray provided in one of the newer kits. While I'm still flying my first Speedo fuse, I have replaced the servo tray about 4 times. Read that as "loose ballast issues while performing Ostrich landings". The picture below shows one such occasion where the ballast rearranged my servo and tray.



Anyways, after the original was destroyed I had been using the plywood openings I had cut out of my Raptor wings as replacement servo trays. They were thicker and stronger ply, but this last time I had run out of them (note: Raptor wing has 4 servo holes......) thankfully though I had a spare tray from my backup Speedo kit. Since my elevator servo goes in upside down and the tray fits a little deeper in the fuse then if it were right side up I think the gap was slightly less of an issue. What I did in order to use it was to Gorilla Glue CA one edge of the tray to the fuse and used Hot Glue for the other side. The hot glue was able to span the slight gap and secure the tray well enough. Well, at least a for another week...

A week later, we had a really big wind day with 35mph gusting to 50mph coming from a rarely seen north direction and which opens up a huge north facing cliff face (justly called "North Face") here in SoCal. While the lift is amazing the landing zone is really treacherous since the only place to land is in directly in the huge rotor. My Speedo after a rather spectacular landing is once again gutted and waiting for a new wing.



-Jonathan
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Old Apr 05, 2012, 01:41 PM
I DS slower than I build!
Cory's Avatar
Idaho Falls
Joined Jul 2006
2,336 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Greywing View Post
I'm in the process of putting together my new Speedo and wonder if there is a new consensus on aileron throw and differential than what is shown on the first page.

One comment I would add is that when using the stock control horn mounted on the elevator as it should be with the pivot holes aligned with the hinge line, down elevator motion is seriously inhibited. I found it necessary to remove some material from the aft end of the fuselage to allow the pushrod connector adequate forward swing clearance as seen in the attached pic.
I don't recall my exact aileron throws. I have also had good success with 50% differential. I know my max rate is determined by the maximum available down aileron, then the max up throw is twice that. I think my low rate is 40% of my high rate.

The elevator rates on the front page stood out as being quite high to me. I have been using 2mm on low rates and 4mm on high for years. I do have a very rearward CG.

I very strongly disagree with the CG locations on the front page. 65 mm for a novice is not wise. The plane will not track straight in a dive and you are at risk of stalling the tail surface in either a hard pull or slow flight. I have had my CG between 78-80mm for years. It is not twitchy at all. It flies pretty much hands off. I never did get to the point of neutral stability. More nose weight does not make for an easier to control plane for a novice. It actually makes it harder. The control throws must be appropriate, but a properly tuned plane between 75-80mm will be easier to fly than a more nose heavy plane. If you start at 75mm with control throws at 3mm on low and 6mm on high and then progressively work the CG back on successive flights while at the same time reducing the rates, you will not have problems.

As far as the elevator control linkage clearance, I used a Z-bend, so there was no clearance issue.
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Last edited by Cory; Apr 05, 2012 at 01:58 PM.
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Old Apr 05, 2012, 01:48 PM
Silent Flight
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United States, CA, Cypress
Joined Jul 2005
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Cory you are totally right here as well. CG of 75-80 is best, although I might even suggest that 5-6mm throws for the elevator even on high rates is excessive.

-Jonathan
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Old Apr 05, 2012, 01:55 PM
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USA, CA, Pismo Beach
Joined Oct 2007
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Hi Jonathan. I thought about moving the horiz stab back but worried about the loss of gluing surface. Probably not a big issue.

We're getting some really wild winds here today and I expect you are as well. Bummer about your "free range" ballast. There's just not too many mounting options in the tight fuselage space. My current plan is to put the Rx under the wing which doesn't leave much room for ballast. I hope to slide the Rx up under the front wing screw for a little more ballast room.

Are you using 72MHz in your installation? I'm waiting for a new Minima rx to do the final fitting.

Thanks for the inputs on throw from everyone. My gut feeling was that the recommended seemed kind of large.
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