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Old May 31, 2011, 02:58 PM
Uno
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Sweden
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ESC timing and frequency

I have a Mega 22/35/1,5 ER with 6S 4000mah and a Turnigy 100A ESC in my new Jet Arrows Vampire. On fully loaded batteries I get 80A and 1750W. After 5 minutes flightwith throttle between 40 and 75% the batteries are barely warm but the ESC is so hot that I can not touch it. What timing and frequency shall I use? I think of putting the ESC coolingfins outside in the intakeduct or is it better to put it in the exhaust? Can anyone explain the meaning of the figures for the motor? The Vampirereally did fly wright out of the box. Nice rolls and good performance. Regards Uno
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Old May 31, 2011, 04:49 PM
who dares wins
like2fly!'s Avatar
London,England
Joined Apr 2005
1,765 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Uno View Post
Can anyone explain the meaning of the figures for the motor?Uno
http://www.megamotor.cz/v3/script/de...ge_id=lang_eng

Nice model!
Im not familiar with Turnigy but some cooling airflow helps all esc's
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Old May 31, 2011, 05:43 PM
Frank Feldhaus's Avatar
Germany, NRW, Hopsten
Joined Jul 2005
70 Posts
Hello Uno,

i have got the same problem with the mega 22/45/1,5ER with 8s 3700mAh and YGE 90HV ESC. The bl-motor draws in flight 84A and 2350W I have put the ESC to the outside in the intakeduct, but the ESC overheating problem was not going one. The additional capacitor low-esr in the cable are melted. The current tops are too high

The yge 90HV esc has powerfully problems with the mega 22/45/1,5ER:

Jetarrows De Havilland Vampire DH-100 - Onboard HD Video (3 min 0 sec)


I will spend my money for another tenshock TS EZ 2230/16 bl-motor.

http://tenshock-motors.de/brushless-flight-motors-EDF

greets Frank
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Old May 31, 2011, 05:58 PM
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St. Martin's Avatar
Skunk Water, Rhode Island
Joined Jul 2002
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Uno View Post
I have a Mega 22/35/1,5 ER with 6S 4000mah and a Turnigy 100A ESC in my new Jet Arrows Vampire. On fully loaded batteries I get 80A and 1750W. After 5 minutes flightwith throttle between 40 and 75% the batteries are barely warm but the ESC is so hot that I can not touch it. What timing and frequency shall I use? I think of putting the ESC coolingfins outside in the intakeduct or is it better to put it in the exhaust? Can anyone explain the meaning of the figures for the motor? The Vampirereally did fly wright out of the box. Nice rolls and good performance. Regards Uno
Most in-runners like 11-12 KHz. Timing will reduce the load, if retarded but also reduce efficiency. A 6-pole mega does not run efficiently at low timing.

All BL ESC's run hottest at reduced power. The gates in the MOSFETS are open longer and more simaltaneously, causing higher heat. A good place to get proper airflow will help. With your bifurcated intake, an opening, in front of the fan, where the ducting joins, is a great place. It also makes the entire fuselage a low pressure vessel, for other cooling intakes.

Fuzz
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Old May 31, 2011, 06:50 PM
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USA, NC, Matthews
Joined Aug 2008
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I have a related question. I have a Pentium-100-HV OPTO ESC ( http://www.hobbywing.com/english/Art...?ArticleID=423 , http://www.hobbywing.com/upload/manual/ESC_HV_e.pdf) and am wondering about the PWM. According to the manual, it isn't programmable. Any idea what it would be by default? The motor I am running, Arc 36-75-1 on 8s, is supposed to have the PWM set to 8kz. Any idea if that is what this esc is set to?

Thanks
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Old Jun 01, 2011, 12:04 AM
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zaskarkid's Avatar
a swamp naturally
Joined Mar 2008
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Hey Uno, if you're using the tza series, those run very hot even on low timing. if you're using the old style 100amp with the big square black heatsink, its low timing is very low. it looks like the hobbywing that techspy has, but non HV 6s, which hobbycity no longer sells. The castle ice 100 low timing would be right b/n the two above escs. If you motor runs nice and smooth at 8khz, then why bother to go higher b/c your esc will work harder as it switch more

turnigy tza85 - hotest 80amps 1700watts (pwm 8khz)
ice 100 - 68amps, 1500watts (pwm 8khz)
turnigy 100amp blk sq heatsink - 59amps 1400watts (pwm freq not a programming option)

I just tested all of these with same fan/motor on my thrust stand. (2300, 2100-2200, 2000g thrust)

It's unfortunate we can't put the esc at the rear hatch and expose the heatsink to the open air. the vampire is tail heavy with typical midi, and the belly is low to the ground so maybe not a good idea to put esc at belly.

I just ordered some 40mm fans and I'm going to see how effective they are.
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Old Jun 01, 2011, 02:53 AM
who dares wins
like2fly!'s Avatar
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zaskarkid View Post
Hey Uno, if you're using the tza series, those run very hot even on low timing. if you're using the old style 100amp with the big square black heatsink, its low timing is very low. it looks like the hobbywing that techspy has, but non HV 6s, which hobbycity no longer sells. The castle ice 100 low timing would be right b/n the two above escs. If you motor runs nice and smooth at 8khz, then why bother to go higher b/c your esc will work harder as it switch more

turnigy tza85 - hotest 80amps 1700watts (pwm 8khz)
ice 100 - 68amps, 1500watts (pwm 8khz)
turnigy 100amp blk sq heatsink - 59amps 1400watts (pwm freq not a programming option)

I just tested all of these with same fan/motor on my thrust stand. (2300, 2100-2200, 2000g thrust)

It's unfortunate we can't put the esc at the rear hatch and expose the heatsink to the open air. the vampire is tail heavy with typical midi, and the belly is low to the ground so maybe not a good idea to put esc at belly.

I just ordered some 40mm fans and I'm going to see how effective they are.
Wow, thats a huge difference. Were all other parameters very similar?
Only 15% more thrust with 36% more amps. I know which i'd go for of the three above.

It would be interesting to see what numbers an ESC which auto adjusts timing gives.
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Old Jun 01, 2011, 04:14 AM
Uno
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Sweden
Joined Dec 2005
32 Posts
Hi!
Thank You for answers. Very nice video Frank. Mega-factory states that the timing should be 5-10 degrees and max 18. Default in my ESC is 15 but I will lower it. The ESC I use is Turnigy K-force 100A. I have an Hextronic PRO 120A in a propeler-Yak that I could test. Anyone with experience of that? Both ESC:s have ”overheat protection”. Does that mean that ESC shut down att a certain temp and can You thrust it? I have an ubec connected to the reciever so I can steer the a/c with out the ESC. The advertising for Castle Creations Phoenix Ice 100 says that it put in places with not so good cooling. Any comments about that? Rgds Uno.
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Old Jun 01, 2011, 07:53 AM
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United States, NC, Harrisburg
Joined Oct 2010
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going to coat tail on this thread. I just returned a SS Electrifly 45amp ESC because I was having an issue with any time I quickly throttled up the motor made a horrible noise and no power until until I reduced power all the way and throttled up slower. I was told by a guy out at our field to re-program the ESC timing to a higher setting because he had seen that problem before, well the SS ESCs can not be programmed I found out after calling the company so I returned it and bought a Turnigy 40amp with a programming card.

I want to better understand timing on a brushless motor. I have searched through the threads and the most I have gotten out of them is that increasing timing increases RPMs on the motor but also inreases heat on the ESC

Can anyone explain what is actually happening when you change timing? I don't see anything that would explain why mine locked up on a lower setting but Electrifly agreed that is probably the problem as well once they saw the video of the noise and what happens.

Thanks,
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Old Jun 02, 2011, 09:27 AM
Uno
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Sweden
Joined Dec 2005
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Happy days with the Vampire!
I did it Your way Frank, put the coolingfins into motors airintake and programmed the esc to 7,5 instead of 15 and the frequency to 12 hz. The reading on ground was the same as before just over 80 A with fully charged battery. After landing the esc was barely warm. The Vampire is a great flyer but the low wingloading makes it a glider at landing. I have flaps and mixed up ailrons to that to get it down. Video coming on youtube rgds Uno.
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Old Jun 04, 2011, 01:08 AM
Frank Feldhaus's Avatar
Germany, NRW, Hopsten
Joined Jul 2005
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Hi Uno,

Nice to hear it worked. I am interested to see the video

On Thursday i made two flights and measured the power with the YGE 160HV ESC. Unfortunately, it was very strong cross wind at the airfield.

The split flaps I would like to include in future, then the landing speed would be even lower. The flaps will help to shorten my landing and reduce the size of the required runway.

Here are a new onboard video:

Jetarrows De Havilland Vampire DH-100 - Onboard video Front 02.06.2011 (8 min 41 sec)


Regards
Frank
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Old Jun 05, 2011, 06:47 AM
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United States, NC, Harrisburg
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Very good video, thanks for sharing.
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Old Jun 05, 2011, 02:30 PM
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Si Goodchild's Avatar
Lincolnshire, UK
Joined Oct 2009
522 Posts
Does anyone know the optimum timing and frequency for a HET 2w-20 on 4s and 2w-25 on 6s?
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Old Jun 08, 2011, 02:31 PM
Uno
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Sweden
Joined Dec 2005
32 Posts
We had a fantastic weekend in Greve Denmark at the 4.th international EDF-meeting. Here is a film of my Vampire taken by Arvid a member of the Danish EDF-club. Whatch his other videos on You Tube too. Rgds Uno
Vampire Jet Arrows (5 min 13 sec)
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