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Old May 30, 2011, 02:00 PM
Going to Plan C
Joined May 2011
98 Posts
Discussion
Next step CP FB or FBL heli

I have been reading a lot and am looking for a front yard heli. I have been flying a MCX2, MSR, SR 120 (really like this one) and looking to move on. I would like something between 200 size and under 400 range.

What I have read so far is

T rex 250 SE (LHS carries parts) are nice however they tail wag issues. This comes with either from setup or design flaws. Sometimes also from the user not being mechanically incline. Anyways, there is two sides. People that love them and people that say there is better. They also how low flight times because they are heavy

Guai 200 and 255 heli's - They interested me a lot however the parts avail is not great unless you mail order. I like the options hear for multi rotor and FBL (as i will probably go that way to start). Good things are said about them as they are monsters in 3d but thats not me cup of tea.

Ricco - there are lots of good things here about these heli's but they are only a small group of people that own them as the store front for them is rather bleak with little info. The flight characteristics are nice and have very long flight times with the 1650kv motor and 1300mah packs (i think) getting over 10+mins of sport flying. However the parts are limited to only mail order.

Now take into consideration I may try loops and rolls and inverted later but just going to get into learning CP heli's. I am mechanically inclined and love tinkering. This heli is going to be used in my yard more often than not. I will be getting a .30 or 500 size heli for the field when the times comes. Flight time is important to me.

I have read a lot of good things about FBL and will probably do it all at once when i get this heli. So info there will be nice.

Thanks
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Old May 30, 2011, 02:16 PM
Hong Kong
Joined Jan 2010
6,329 Posts
Honestly, I would avoid the current 250 sized helis altogether. The Trex and Gaui are little demons who really bite. They should be flown at the flying field as they require almost as much airspace as a 450. It will be a long time before you are experienced enough to fly them around in your front yard. Moreover, their very high headspeed carries a danger for people who may be around. If you really must get either the Trex or Gaui, then I would recommend that you install a FBL system as it will make them much tamer and handle the wind much better.

I would strongly suggest that you look at the MCPx since you already have got a compatible Tx. There is a similar discussion here.

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1445024
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Old May 30, 2011, 02:48 PM
Going to Plan C
Joined May 2011
98 Posts
I understand what you are saying with the MCPx but my problem i have grow to not like about the Eflite stuff is the tail motor. It seems that just when you want to have fun the thing burns out. I have had countless problems with the MSR and now on the SR 120. I have been flying the SR 120 for more than 2 months now and rarely crash unless i am trying something thats at its limits. The only thing i have had to change on the 120 is ball links and 1 set of blades along with a tail rotor. Not bad for what I have done with it. Now the MSR is another thing that I wont go into.

I am a patient person when it comes to learning and know when I am over my head and hit Throttle hold to save the heli. Nonetheless i am a rather fast learner and the reason I havent moved up yet to a CP heli is 1. I am currently deployed in Afghanistan and close to going home so i figured i would just read up. 2. i just read up a lot before I make a choice. once i determined that i didnt want the larger heli right of the start 450+ started to look at the little guys.

I will say that the MCPx shows a lot of promise and it would be a great feeler for a FBL heli, im just on the fence of doing it better with another heli instead of the MCPx and starting down the road with the gear i will need for larger birds.
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Old May 30, 2011, 02:51 PM
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Joined Aug 2009
5,180 Posts
I'm also thinking about getting into CP. From the posts that I've read this year, and from my experience with FB and FBL FP's, it seems most people prefer FBL over FB. From what I understand these are the reasons:

* Less overall weight (more agility)
* No Flybar drag (more agility)
* No Flybar damage (less repair cost)
* No Flybar setup (less maintenance time)

The main reason I'm thinking about getting into CP, is that I'm getting bored flying "straight" up, and figured it must be an indication that it must be time for me to get "inverted". After realizing that CP's run near MAX rpm, and I'll be spending most of my time inverted with the Blades towards the ground, I decided maybe I should first try it on a sim. Wow! I felt as if I was Alice "in the looking glass". Everything that I had grown so accustomed to over the last couple of years was now so weird and "twisted". I think I was crashing more when I first started inverted, than I did when I first started flying straight.

When I first started flying "straight", I was doing it at slow rpm with the skids towards the ground. Therefore, whenever I "lost' it, the damage was minimal (if any). Thankfully, I now own a simulator, and have been practicing "inverted" on it, otherwise I feel all the crashes that I've had during my inverted learning curve would have been very costly and time consuming.

I've been practicing inverted for 2 months, and am now somewhat comfortable in 2 orientations. I haven't kept track of the number of crashes, but I think it might be somewhere in the 1,000 range. And I still have 2 more orientations to try!

I read it when I first started flying micro FP's, and for the most part felt I did well without it, but once you want to start trying to fly inverted, I highly recommend a simulator.
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Last edited by i812; May 30, 2011 at 04:23 PM.
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Old May 30, 2011, 02:55 PM
Newb Rotary Pilot
Odenton, MD
Joined Apr 2009
409 Posts
+1 on the mCPx this thing is a great introduction to CP nowhere near as dangerous as one of the 250's mentioned, it flies great and is VERY tough!

I was flying mine fast AS out front of the house the other day showing some family that was in town. Full speed into a telephone pole! The main gear flew off completelt but I found it and a lost 1 link and broke a canopy mount.

2 minutes and it was fixed. The family was amazed that I had it flying again in just a few short minutes. This is my only CP other than my SR and pretty much all I have been flying since I got it.

But good luck to you and happy flying no matter what you decide!
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Old May 30, 2011, 03:19 PM
Going to Plan C
Joined May 2011
98 Posts
very cool info thanks
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Old May 30, 2011, 07:32 PM
Purdue Engineering
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United States, CA, San Diego
Joined Jan 2005
2,661 Posts
I own both a CopterX 250 (TRex clone) and an mCPx, and find myself flying the mCPx much more often. I don't think that the 250 is as difficult to fly as some people say, but it does require a lot of space and isn't really suited to backyard flying. The mCPx will fly in tight spaces, handles wind and crashes well, and is great for learning new orientations and aerobatics. I don't think you'd regret buying one.
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Old May 31, 2011, 01:27 AM
Registered User
Joined Apr 2010
874 Posts
Despite all of the good advice to go with a larger heli, I went for a Gaui 200 V2 for my first CP bird. Mine is the flybar version which handles great, I toned it down with stabilizer weights on the flybar when I was learning to hover it.
After my first crash destroyed the stock tail (which worked well, but damages easily), I upgraded to a Bobby Watts tail which holds great and is a bit beefier.

Definately need an airfield to fly it-- the thing has a ton of power, crazy headspeed, and can get away from you really fast (Trex 250 would be the same). Don't think that this bird will require less airspace than a 450...

I think I probably have about 75 flights on it, have had 3 major crashes (just had one yesterday... over $125 in new parts on order...).

I really like this heli, but it is not for the faint of heart. If you are patient, it will reward you.

Chief
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Old May 31, 2011, 04:26 AM
Hong Kong
Joined Jan 2010
6,329 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by i812 View Post
I'm also thinking about getting into CP. From the posts that I've read this year, and from my experience with FB and FBL FP's, it seems most people prefer FBL over FB. From what I understand these are the reasons:

* Less overall weight (more agility)
* No Flybar drag (more agility)
* No Flybar damage (less repair cost)
* No Flybar setup (less maintenance time)
I do not know how to fly inverted yet and have never done it on a sim either. But the extra wind handling ability of a CP, especially in stunt mode, and much improved stability and precision makes me unwilling to fly FPs again.

Not all FBL systems are the same. Most Walkera 3 axis gyros are just passive systems and that is why there are so many bad tendencies reported. The only Walkera receiver that is up to scratch is the 2702V found in the V450D01 and V500D01. I can definitely see a big difference between my 4F200 and my Trex 250 with Align 3G. The 4F200 has a lot of pitching up tendencies that is not seen with the Trex 250.

It is the programming that is responsible for the differences between different FBL systems. To date, with the exception of the 2702V, the Chinese manufacturers have not been able to produce anything to challange the links of BeastX, Align 3G, and Vbar etc. However unlike the others, the 2702V cannot be fine tuned through your laptop. In fact, most advance FBL systems require quite a fair deal of set up and this should done by an experienced person.


Quote:
Originally Posted by BHChieftain View Post
Despite all of the good advice to go with a larger heli, I went for a Gaui 200 V2 for my first CP bird. Mine is the flybar version which handles great, I toned it down with stabilizer weights on the flybar when I was learning to hover it.
After my first crash destroyed the stock tail (which worked well, but damages easily), I upgraded to a Bobby Watts tail which holds great and is a bit beefier.

Definately need an airfield to fly it-- the thing has a ton of power, crazy headspeed, and can get away from you really fast (Trex 250 would be the same). Don't think that this bird will require less airspace than a 450...

I think I probably have about 75 flights on it, have had 3 major crashes (just had one yesterday... over $125 in new parts on order...).

I really like this heli, but it is not for the faint of heart. If you are patient, it will reward you.

Chief
I couldn't get anywhere with the Trex 250 until I installed a Align 3G FBL system. It just suddenly became a completely different machine, being much tamer, precise and predictable. My major crash rate went down from 1 in 13 to less than 1 in 100. Because it is so stable and precise, it reduces "forced pilot errors" where you lose disorientation of the heli. Where there is sudden crosswind, the heli will simply tilt to one side but still track confidently ahead.

Other modellers who have seen mine have been amazed at how stable it is in high wind conditions. I can do precise FFF circuits in an enclosed mini soccer field now that would be unthinkable for a 450. In fact, I am confident of its abilities that I can fly it in the dusk against dark buildings with a dark fuselage without fear of disorientation.
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Old Jun 01, 2011, 06:32 PM
Going to Plan C
Joined May 2011
98 Posts
so it seems that even the smaller heli's can be tamed with a FBL system installed?
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Old Jun 05, 2011, 12:46 PM
Hong Kong
Joined Jan 2010
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spectre6573 View Post
so it seems that even the smaller heli's can be tamed with a FBL system installed?
The smaller the heli, the more pronounced the benefits that it gets from a flybarless.

In fact, virtually all current palm sized CP helis are FBL such as the MCPx, Walkera V100D03BL, and 120 series CP. Those planned by Nine Eagles and Nine Eagles will be flybarless as well. Basically, you are not likely to see a flybarred submicro heli produced again.
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