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Old Aug 12, 2011, 02:36 PM
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Larry Jolly's Avatar
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Daryl is on the right track. There is not much that can be done aero-wise to see as much improvement as utilizing the new materials available for model sailplanes.. Vladimir and Lubos have really gone after this integration of new ST Fabrics, But in my opinion Philip Kolb has taken the most drastic steps to fully make use of the latest materials available. This adventure in to fully engineered gliders both aerodynamically and structurally will yield dividends, but one cannot escape the fact that this just means the models will have to cost more. Vladimir took extreme measures going us far as to produce his own ST cloth so that he can control the availability of his materials. I am with Daryl here the most important aspect of the Maxa is that Vladimir has produced a 4M F3J capable glider that weighs 1730 gr. Mine is number 4 out of the molds so it stands to reason that Vladimir will be able to make structural improvements based on the feedback from those of us testing the model. Even without the economic pressures of our times, F3J sailplanes are not going to get cheaper. LJ
There is also the consideration that only the most experienced pilots will be able to get the most out of these gliders as it takes more pilot skill to get the most out of a light model. So while everyone appreciates having the lightest model not everyone is in a position to get the most out of it. For 99% of the contests in the US Carbon 68 models will get the job done and this cloth is cheaper and available.
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Old Aug 12, 2011, 03:50 PM
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I got to see the ill-fated shup at the Nats, and they are worth the money, there is a lot of very high end engineering and design going on in these things. As much as I like being on the cuting edge though, as a friend said last night, I will wait for the eventual turn over. If I wanted to make a team or have absolutely the best for the Masters next year, this would be in the quiver, but I am not there, so be it. I am now a used ship guy.

Marc
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Old Aug 12, 2011, 04:29 PM
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USA, CT, Stamford
Joined Jun 2006
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Originally Posted by OVSS Boss View Post
I got to see the ill-fated shup at the Nats, and they are worth the money, there is a lot of very high end engineering and design going on in these things. As much as I like being on the cuting edge though, as a friend said last night, I will wait for the eventual turn over. If I wanted to make a team or have absolutely the best for the Masters next year, this would be in the quiver, but I am not there, so be it. I am now a used ship guy.

Marc
I love when these new ships come out. It means there are more quality used sailplanes on the market at great prices.
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Old Aug 12, 2011, 04:32 PM
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Joined Sep 2006
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Marc,
With both Larry and Daryl saying the Maxa may have an advantage over existing planes, it looks like there may be alot of used Aspires and Icons showing up for sale soon.
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Old Aug 12, 2011, 04:45 PM
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United States, CA, Folsom
Joined Jul 2007
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Originally Posted by gary1201 View Post
Marc,
With both Larry and Daryl saying the Maxa may have an advantage over existing planes, it looks like there may be alot of used Aspires and Icons showing up for sale soon.
Probably not. Think supplement, not replacement at the level these will be most effective at.
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Old Aug 12, 2011, 05:58 PM
Much to my CHAGRIN . . .
machild's Avatar
Bellflower, CA
Joined Mar 2005
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Originally Posted by gary1201 View Post
With both Larry and Daryl saying the Maxa may have an advantage over existing planes, it looks like there may be alot of used Aspires and Icons showing up for sale soon.
Nope. I agree with LJ that in order to take full advantage of the benefits (real or perceived) that the ultra-light weight Maxa offers, the pilot needs to have world-class skills. That leaves me out of the equation. I know one Aspire that's not going up for sale any time soon. It's all about flying what your comfortable flying, and you don't get good at flying by running out and buying the next world-beater to come along every WC cycle. Like I said earlier, I know just enough to be dangerous on a good day, but what I do know is that I'm very comfortable with what I'm presently flying. I have an ST Aspire coming and look forward to the learning curve (not kidding myself that there won't be a period of adjustment), but having flown both an ST and a C68 Aspire, I can say that they both feel very comfortable for me (and ultimately the guy holding the box is the biggest variable in the equation).

MC
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Old Aug 12, 2011, 06:28 PM
Daryl Perkins's Avatar
United States, VA, Falls Church
Joined Mar 2007
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Originally Posted by gary1201 View Post
Marc,
With both Larry and Daryl saying the Maxa may have an advantage over existing planes, it looks like there may be alot of used Aspires and Icons showing up for sale soon.
Now I didn't say that the Maxa necessarily had an advantage... what I said was there is a competitive advantage for F3J only with the lightness Vladimir is achieving. We're flying as tight as is possible on the back end of the slot... the only place to make up time is on the launch, and lighter launches faster.

My I2 is already at 66.9 ounces for about the same size, so we're not far off... and I've already been on the phone to discuss that last 6 ounces... My issue is really how to keep up with those pesky 50.5 ounce ST Supras.
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Old Aug 12, 2011, 06:37 PM
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Harbor City, CA
Joined Oct 2003
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Originally Posted by gary1201 View Post
Marc,
With both Larry and Daryl saying the Maxa may have an advantage over existing planes, it looks like there may be alot of used Aspires and Icons showing up for sale soon.
I might want one of those terrible Aspires, just incase they make a retro moldie TD class.
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Old Aug 12, 2011, 10:59 PM
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Larry Jolly's Avatar
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Didn't say that, my lightest Aspire is too light and I fly it with Ballast after the first round. The ST Aspire I test flew yesterday is 1930 gr and full strength, just about perfect flying weight for the Aspire. Now, what I am saying is that it is possible using the new fabrics and methods Vladimir developed to build a 1730gr Maxa to consider and conceive the next generation of F3J specific designs maybe 3.7 meters a little more AR, a thinner section.... 62 ounces,yielding a higher quicker short tow..... Once again for the non F3J competitor why would you put any of your models up for sale???? LJ
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Old Aug 13, 2011, 03:45 AM
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Newport Beach, CA USA
Joined Apr 2008
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I got to fly Larry's Maxa the other day and it took me only a couple minutes to realize JW nailed it perfectly. It looks like a Supra, but it's not! It's very "Aspire-like". No loss of energy in the turns and the handling is superb and effortless. JW got the effective dihedral angle, fin size and volume perfect. The high AOA handling was classic Herrig, and I was happy to see JW preserved my favorite aspect of the Aspire in his airfoil. The top end was also impressive and every bit as good as an Aspire. But the Maxa was at 61 oz, so if it was as good as a heavier loaded 70 oz Aspire (plus having a slightly higher AR), then I must conclude JW bumped up the top end a bit (based on my unscientific observation).

I thought the small stab would be an issue, but it seemed just fine in flight, probably because it's on a bit longer moment arm. For landings with a lot of flap wash over the tail, it could probably be a bit larger, but still not a big issue.

Tuan is a numbers guy But I'm a pilot and I can tell in a very few flights if I like a plane, and I like this one. Let JW worry about the numbers. In this case, I believe he nailed them right on. Nice work Joe.
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Old Aug 13, 2011, 05:37 AM
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Australia, QLD, Gold Coast
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More pics . . . all these test flights surely there's some cool photos around ?
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Old Aug 13, 2011, 10:53 AM
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Newport Beach, CA USA
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Originally Posted by AlpineDSacro View Post
More pics . . . all these test flights surely there's some cool photos around ?
Go back a page or two
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Old Aug 17, 2011, 04:21 PM
Chris Lee
United States, MO, St. Louis
Joined Oct 2005
316 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ben Clerx View Post
I got to fly Larry's Maxa the other day and it took me only a couple minutes to realize JW nailed it perfectly. It looks like a Supra, but it's not! It's very "Aspire-like". No loss of energy in the turns and the handling is superb and effortless.



I love how the comparisons are all to the Aspire. I think there's a word for that, "Benchmark!"

Chris
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Old Aug 18, 2011, 12:24 AM
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Jyvaskyla, Finland
Joined Aug 2003
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ben Clerx View Post
I thought the small stab would be an issue, but it seemed just fine in flight, probably because it's on a bit longer moment arm. For landings with a lot of flap wash over the tail, it could probably be a bit larger, but still not a big issue.
In last weekends Eurotour in Trnava there were Ukranian team flying Maxas. Plane circled beautifully!!! This is definately the machine to get when we quit towing and start flying F3J from hand launch

I also noticed that stab is mounted very low in fin. However this did not look like an issue in competition, in F3J landing aproaches are normally quite fast.

Everybody wowed about Maxa wing bend. Looked like excessive already in 2-3m/s wind. Maybe this was the reason why the Maxas did not do very well in competition. I noticed they had quite low launches.

Looking at Maxa gave me mixed feelings. Flyingwise Maxa definately looks like the step towards the next generation of F3J planes. Aspire turns nice but no matter how you set it up, it will never be as agile as Maxa.

However, for the hefty price I want stiffer spar. It will be interesting to see how Vladimir will improve Maxa spar. Or if it cannot be improved, the most competition pilots just opt to fly little more beefy versions in normal to heavy conditions.
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Old Aug 18, 2011, 02:29 AM
launch low, fly high
New Zealand, Hawke's Bay, Havelock North
Joined Dec 2004
1,781 Posts
You guys are really making me jealous! I am eagerly awaiting my first time with the plane... Maybe next month I will get my hands on one so that I can make some evaluations.
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