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Old Feb 26, 2012, 01:45 AM
launch low, fly high
New Zealand, Hawke's Bay, Havelock North
Joined Dec 2004
1,797 Posts
Hutton,

Yer gonna havta suck it...





At least, until I get back home from holiday. How about next weekend? General notes, I found that cruise was a bit more "up" TE position than what my eyes said it should be by looking at the TE.

One comment about your comparison to your Supra. Was your Supra at the same wing loading?

Another comment about the Maxa is that it should fly as if it has a lighter wing loading than the Supra. Ballast can always be added, but it is a bit more difficult to add lightness!

One other item of note is that for my style of flying, the Maxa 3.5 is the "workhorse", and the 4.0 tips are mostly used for the early morning/late evening flights. Other pilots may not agree with this, but it seems right for me.
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Old Feb 26, 2012, 03:30 AM
VHO
glider misguider
Armidale NSW Australia
Joined Feb 2007
560 Posts
OK Joe, suck I will... at least until you can provide more guidance.

The Supra was the same weight, not same loading, so the comparison wasn't apples with apples.

Was thinking that a 3.5m Maxa would be the "go to" toy. The slower speed of the 3.9m Maxa (obviously as a consequence of a lighter wing loading), wasn't as well suited to the conditions (but strength on winch wasn't an issue, goes up the line just like a Supra). I'm sure with more time I will be able to dial the 3.9ish toy in better (hence the question).

Chris, will take some photos next time out.

Hutton
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Old Feb 26, 2012, 08:14 AM
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lesterpk's Avatar
Australia, WA, Perth
Joined Oct 2003
876 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by VHO View Post
Is it possible Joe (or Barry) to post a picture of what constitutes design TE location in cruise mode? Or is the expectation that we suck it and see?
Try here for settings and templates. Also attached.

http://f3j.in.ua/media/maxa-instrukt...20settings.pdf
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Old Feb 26, 2012, 09:17 AM
Detail Freak
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Harbor City, CA
Joined Oct 2003
21,467 Posts
Lester-

The start template shows 2 different values, 17.25 and 12.2....
Which is correct?? Looks more like 17 to me, just guessing though.

R,
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Old Feb 26, 2012, 11:00 AM
Registered User
Dallas, TX
Joined Aug 2004
154 Posts
Target,,

The 17.2 degree number is incorrect. The 12.2 or 10 deg flap value is correct for "starts" or launches. I think it's just a typo. Minimum sink is 43 ft/min with a flap setting of 4-6 degrees at 1750 grams.

We hope to have a set of templates available soon. I gave away all the templates we brought back from a recent visit. These paper templates should give MAXA owners a good starting point for setting flaps.

Thank you Francesco who worked up these values.

Barry
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Old Feb 26, 2012, 11:08 AM
Detail Freak
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Harbor City, CA
Joined Oct 2003
21,467 Posts
Copy, Barry.
If I wasn't being lazy, I would have measured the PDF, and then answered my own question....
Better for you to do it anyway, now its "official"!

Thanks.
R,
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Old Feb 26, 2012, 12:24 PM
In F3J size does matter!
roydor's Avatar
Israel
Joined Nov 2006
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blaster View Post
Minimum sink is 43 ft/min with a flap setting of 4-6 degrees at 1750 grams.
Sounds too low to be true, this would mean you can max an F3J round in dead air from just 130 meters or 430 feet.
It's also on par with some of the best free flight models around and I doubt an F3J model can out float an F1A dedicated to min sink.
If this is a number derived from an analysis you should check and see whether the fuselage and tail drag were taken into consideration or is it just the wing.
If itís from a real life measurement I would love to see the log of that flight.

Roy
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Old Feb 26, 2012, 03:01 PM
VHO
glider misguider
Armidale NSW Australia
Joined Feb 2007
560 Posts
Thanks

Les, that helps a lot.

Will try them out and see if 43'/min is achievable

Hutton
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Old Feb 26, 2012, 03:03 PM
Registered User
Dallas, TX
Joined Aug 2004
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Roy,

Check out the log in post 273 that was made on a early morning flight.


Barry
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Old Feb 26, 2012, 03:46 PM
In F3J size does matter!
roydor's Avatar
Israel
Joined Nov 2006
838 Posts
Looks too good to be true...
Sometimes morning air can be exceptional.
I used to compete in Free flight, mainly F1A. Once a year I still compete in the Israeli championship in order to stay in touch with the people and technologies.
In the early mornings (6:00), when the moisture is relatively high, the air feels "thick" and my models make exceptional times with no apparent lift (4:30+ from 60 meters). An hour after that (7:00), when the sun comes out and the moisture lifts, the air "disappears" and models start to drop out of the sky barely doing the required time from the same altitude (3 minutes).
The figure in post 273 is interesting but it might be "one of those days" when the moisture lingers and you get fantastic air which doesn’t let you come down, sometimes it’s just super smooth air which lets you fly the plane closer to stall speed and get those theoretical performance not achievable otherwise (very low turbulence air).

Please forgive me for my skepticism, I've been in aero modeling for a long time and I've learned to question performance which is out of this world... However, if the Maxa can really do what you claim, I want one
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Old Feb 26, 2012, 10:43 PM
Win=span\massXpractice+lu ck
webbsolution's Avatar
Joined Jul 2007
2,939 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by roydor View Post
Looks too good to be true...
Sometimes morning air can be exceptional.
I used to compete in Free flight, mainly F1A. Once a year I still compete in the Israeli championship in order to stay in touch with the people and technologies.
In the early mornings (6:00), when the moisture is relatively high, the air feels "thick" and my models make exceptional times with no apparent lift (4:30+ from 60 meters). An hour after that (7:00), when the sun comes out and the moisture lifts, the air "disappears" and models start to drop out of the sky barely doing the required time from the same altitude (3 minutes).
The figure in post 273 is interesting but it might be "one of those days" when the moisture lingers and you get fantastic air which doesnít let you come down, sometimes itís just super smooth air which lets you fly the plane closer to stall speed and get those theoretical performance not achievable otherwise (very low turbulence air).

Please forgive me for my skepticism, I've been in aero modeling for a long time and I've learned to question performance which is out of this world... However, if the Maxa can really do what you claim, I want one
I would have to agree with the skepticism - there were 3 or 4 maxas at the SWC launching from Mono winches...early morning (non active) rounds were difficult to attain the 10 mins and - some pilots flying maxas did not attain their time. If you can do 12 mins in dead air from just 450 feet ...then this should have been a cake walk from a mono winch launch...
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Old Feb 26, 2012, 10:48 PM
Registered User
Stamford, CT
Joined Feb 2002
474 Posts
At that sink rate, a 600' launch would yield about 15 minutes with zero lift. I like that idea!!!

George
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Old Feb 26, 2012, 10:55 PM
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Stamford, CT
Joined Feb 2002
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Target - if you do the math, 450' should yield closer to 10 min. rather than 12 min. I'm a little skeptical myself.

George
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Old Feb 26, 2012, 11:10 PM
Win=span\massXpractice+lu ck
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For truly dead air you need to be inside...There is always going to be some kind of activity and its very easy to launch and feel local cold air but at 450 to 500 feet of alt the model could in totally floaty stuff.

Arend and Keith who were flying the 3.5 this winter said they thermalled out in the fog...the Maxa like most current contest planes will go up ( or not come down) in almost any lift you can get it into.

DW
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Old Feb 26, 2012, 11:22 PM
Detail Freak
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Harbor City, CA
Joined Oct 2003
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SaltyOne View Post
Target - if you do the math, 450' should yield closer to 10 min. rather than 12 min. I'm a little skeptical myself.

George
I actually was looking at the chart, and the time that the plane come off of the line to the end is about 10 minutes. I deducted the time before the plane was free of the line.

R,
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