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Old Jul 05, 2011, 11:05 AM
2011 - Year of the clones!!!
Frank_fjs's Avatar
Australia, SA, Adelaide
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Thanks bobepine!

That button alone doesn't confirm anything though, it's there for the TX to be mode switchable from mode 1 to mode 2. When the antenna is positioned for mode 1, it presses down on the button telling the TX to go to mode 1. When the antenna is positioned for mode 2, it doesn't press down on the button which tells the TX to go to mode 2.

Good to see that NE have fixed some of the design flaws that were present in the Solo Pro.
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Old Jul 05, 2011, 12:16 PM
Did you check the FAQ already?
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank_fjs View Post
Thanks bobepine!

That button alone doesn't confirm anything though, it's there for the TX to be mode switchable from mode 1 to mode 2. When the antenna is positioned for mode 1, it presses down on the button telling the TX to go to mode 1. When the antenna is positioned for mode 2, it doesn't press down on the button which tells the TX to go to mode 2.

Good to see that NE have fixed some of the design flaws that were present in the Solo Pro.
Oddly enough, even with the flybar below the blades, it won't strike the canopy, while on the Solo Pro "classic" the flybar is mounted higher on the shaft. I only hope they haven't limited the tilt of the flybar too much, the first sample of the Xtreme flybar for the Solo Pro also had a limited tilt angle, but it made the heli even more suspectible to death spiral than with the current Xtreme flybar.
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Old Jul 05, 2011, 12:41 PM
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Joined Jun 2011
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I believe the pitch on the rotor blades is what matters, not the angle of the fly bar itself. With proper linkage design, I'm sure it's possible to have the same pitch on the rotor blades with less angle(tilt) on the fly bar. Since the linkage is a completely new design on the 328, I hope they have that part covered because the angle of the fly bar is definitely mild on the 328 compared with the smaller solo pro.
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Old Jul 05, 2011, 12:42 PM
Sopwith Camel's Cousin
Between my tx and crashed aircraft
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank_fjs View Post
Thanks bobepine!

That button alone doesn't confirm anything though, it's there for the TX to be mode switchable from mode 1 to mode 2. When the antenna is positioned for mode 1, it presses down on the button telling the TX to go to mode 1. When the antenna is positioned for mode 2, it doesn't press down on the button which tells the TX to go to mode 2.
...
Also, the subtrim/EPA/gyro gain feature can depend on the Rx programming.
As far as I know:
*Both the Solo Pro and Solo (coax) use the same Tx with that same button.
*Both the Solo Pro and Solo have subtrim and gyro gain adjustment.
*But the Solo used to not have (and perhaps still does not have) the End Point Adjustment (EPA),
while the Solo Pro does.
I saw this in the sticky Solo "summary/FAQ" thread in the coaxial forum.
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Old Jul 06, 2011, 12:08 PM
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Alright so to those of you who were curious, wonder no more. The 328 does have subtrim just like the 328. It's identical. I got about 5 minutes flying one today and I played with the gyro setting in subtrim. It's all there and it works well just like on the Solo Pro. Here's a short video I shot today of my neighbor/shop owner flying it inside his shop.

Solo Pro 328 Sample Flight (1 min 45 sec)


Regarding my earlier question aboutthe difference between the Free Spirit 220A and the 328, well... I got my answers since I flew both of them today. Or maybe I should say I crashed both of them today... hehe. Two minutes into the maiden flight with my Free Spirit, I rammed into the exterior wall of my house. Destroyed the rear rotor blades but no other damage aside from a bent fly bar which I managed to straighten quite well.

I have to say, the 328 is a lot easier to fly, much like the Solo Pro. In fact, it feels EXACTLY like the Solo Pro and this, I assume, comes in as good news for you guys. It's true. It's light and the stick response is awesome just like the Solo Pro. The rudder is a a bit slow which is good for beginners like me (again, just like the Solo Pro). Makes it easy to control turns as demonstrated in the above video. Of course, this can be programmed in subtrim if you prefer more rudder response. It took me about a minute to trim it and I crashed into things a few times (small room). I use mode 2 and the boss uses mode 1 so we used different TXs. It survived fine with no damage. Once I had it trimmed, I felt like I was flying my solo pro and I got about five minutes of indoor flying with it. It's a great heli, and a very nice addition to the Nine Eagles fleet, in my opinion.

The Free Spirit, on the other hand, has almost twice the fly time as the 328, but the experience is much different. The stick response is much slower than that of the 328, and I blame the weight for this. The FS is much heavier and while the servos respond just as fast, it takes a while for the rotor blades to tilt this big boy making for much slower response. The FS also has a lot more power than the 328. A LOT. This means it climbs a lot faster despite the weight difference. The rudder is much faster and it cannot be adjusted in subtrim. All the subtrim does on the FP is center your trim settings, which is good, but I wish I could slow down the tail response a bit because it's too fast for a beginner like me. I have not tried much forward speed with the 328, but I assume the FP is faster based on the fact that the FP is so much more powerful. Both helis are equally stable when hovering.

To summarize, I'd say the 328 is much easier to fly. Better stick response, less aggressive lift and tail rotation make for a more forgiving experience to novice pilots like me. And given more progammability in subtrim, this may also be a first choice for most experienced pilots. The FS, on the other hand, is harder to fly because the tail rotation is very fast and the lift/power is overwhelming to novice pilots. Best to make sure to have a lot of space and height to fly this one if you want to keep it in the air.
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Old Jul 06, 2011, 12:38 PM
ooops
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Dekalb,Illinois
Joined Oct 2003
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Will go great with my Proto Max
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Old Jul 06, 2011, 03:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bobepine View Post
Alright so to those of you who were curious, wonder no more. The 328 does have subtrim just like the 328. It's identical. I got about 5 minutes flying one today and I played with the gyro setting in subtrim. It's all there and it works well just like on the Solo Pro. Here's a short video I shot today of my neighbor/shop owner flying it inside his shop.
[...]
The rudder is much faster and it cannot be adjusted in subtrim. All the subtrim does on the FP is center your trim settings, which is good, but I wish I could slow down the tail response a bit because it's too fast for a beginner like me.
[...]
The FS, on the other hand, is harder to fly because the tail rotation is very fast and the lift/power is overwhelming to novice pilots.
Good news from your test, thanks!

About Free Spirit custom settings, afaik the gyro sensitivity should be adjustable via a screw on the RX:

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Old Jul 06, 2011, 04:40 PM
Sopwith Camel's Cousin
Between my tx and crashed aircraft
Joined Mar 2006
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bobepine View Post
Alright so to those of you who were curious, wonder no more. The 328 does have subtrim just like the 328. It's identical. I got about 5 minutes flying one today and I played with the gyro setting in subtrim. It's all there and it works well just like on the Solo Pro. ...
A question, does the 328 also have EPA adjustment?
As far as I know, it is an undocumented feature, and
using the same Tx, the Solo Pro does, and the Solo did not (and may be still does not).
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Old Jul 06, 2011, 05:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flying-llama View Post
A question, does the 328 also have EPA adjustment?
As far as I know, it is an undocumented feature, and
using the same Tx, the Solo Pro does, and the Solo did not (and may be still does not).
Bobepine, I think you have to work hard again....... until all the secret features of Solo Pro 328 TX/RX will be unveiled
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Old Jul 06, 2011, 08:43 PM
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Hi helicopcat,

You just made my day, here. Thank you so much for posting this info about the Free Spirit. This will make this bird a lot easier to fly for me if I can lower the gyro speed. A LOT easier.

There are two adjustments screws on the RX as far as I can see. Any idea what the other one is?

I recall someone else mentioned "EPA" earlier and I wanted to find out but I don't know what EPA is. It's a quarter to nine in the morning, here, and I'm going to the shop around 11:30 this morning. I had a few beers last night and this did not mix well with flying the Free Spirit. I hit the ceiling in my garage pretty hard and busted the rotor head, either then or when it hit the ground on the way down. That's why I'm going back to the shop later this morning. If someone can explain what EPA is in the next 2 hours or so, I will find out for you today, flying-llama.
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Old Jul 06, 2011, 09:03 PM
2011 - Year of the clones!!!
Frank_fjs's Avatar
Australia, SA, Adelaide
Joined Nov 2010
2,759 Posts
I think that the other screw controls servo extent. So, increasing it means more servo travel which means a faster and more responsive heli and decreasing it will reduce the servo throw and offer tame performance. Kind of like a manual dual rates mode.

EPA (which is available on the Solo Pro) is End Point Adjustment. It allows you to set the end point in either direction for each servo.
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Old Jul 07, 2011, 07:31 AM
Sopwith Camel's Cousin
Between my tx and crashed aircraft
Joined Mar 2006
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank_fjs View Post
...

EPA (which is available on the Solo Pro) is End Point Adjustment. It allows you to set the end point in either direction for each servo.
The procedure for "adjusting" EPA can be found in "Q 5" in "Trim Issues" of
Post #2 in
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1337008
Nine Eagles Solo Pro/Bravo SX FAQ (Also valid for rebrands like Revell Proto Max etc)
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Old Jul 07, 2011, 11:13 AM
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I'm afraid I have some very bad news for the 328 enthusiasts. I'm also a bit embarrassed and I have to apologize for incorrect information I have posted earlier.

Let me explain. The last time I flew the 328, I trimmed it normally with the trim buttons and flew it for about 5 minutes. I also tried entering subtrim mode with the TX, which seemed to work, but it was a small room and the heli was already trimmed so I didn't actually try to do trim adjustment in subtrim mode. I just pushed the buttons a few time until the TX entered subtrim mode with the heli on the ground, I tried operating the rudder and it didn't budge. I assumed the throttle stick function was disabled the same as it is with the Solo Pro in subtrim mode. I think I just didn't have enough throttle going so the tail didn't move. Then I clicked the rear button again and all the trim settings were back to the center position just like what happens when you exit subtrim mode on the Solo Pro. My conclusions were that the 328 is very much set up like the Solo Pro in terms of subtrim settings. Well, I was wrong.

I went back today and I had more time to play with the 328. What I found out was rather disappointing. Bear with me, I'll explain my findings. As mentioned, I did not try the rudder stick in subtrim mode with enough throttle the last time. Today I did. I was surprised to see that the rudder stick was actually operational in subtrim mode. The heli worked normally in subtrim mode. The trim buttons worked and they do go back to the center position upon exiting subtrim mode. But here's the problem I didn't pay attention to last time, which is what will disappoint the solo pro fans... If you turn off the TX after exiting subtrim mode and turn it back on again, the trim meters are suddenly back to their initial position and not centered at all. In other words, subtrim mode doesn't work. The TX remembers the trim settings that were present prior to entering subtrim mode, and when turned off and on again, the trim settings are back to what they were before you went into subtrim mode.

I also followed the instructions in Solo Pro's thread to enter EPA mode. (I vaguely remembered reading about it in that thread and I found the instructions.) I used my iPhone's browser to open the thread and I followed the instructions properly but nothing happened. Turn the TX off and back on and you're back to the previous settings before entering subtrim/EPA mode just the same. In simple terms, it doesn't work. Bummer, and sorry again for the wrong info I posted earlier. I figure it's better to rectify this information sooner than later.

As for the Free Spirit, I was also wrong. The TX can also go into subtrim mode, but when the trim meters go back to the center position, so does the trim settings themselves so you have to trim it again. In other words, entering subtrim mode with the FS does nothing more than centering all your trims. So I was wrong about that too, et it behaves differently than the 328. The FS resets the trims to zero, while the 328 remembers earlier trim settings.

Regarding the adjustment screws on the Free Spririt's receiver, I googled this for about one hour and I found very little information, and many people do not agree on what the EXTEVT pot and the Sensitivity pot are for. So I tried messing with the Sensitivity one and it's clear that it has nothing to do with speeding or slowing down the gyro gain. It's actually adjusting the RPM proportion between the main motor and the tail motor. It's basically a tail trim setting and it's extremely sensitive. Only one tenth of a turn will render the heli impossible to fly as it will just spin on its own clockwise or the other way around. After about one hour of turning the Sensitive pot back and forth, I finally managed to have the heli hover properly and now I'm afraid to touch these adjustments anymore. I resolved to not touch these pots again unless I end up having unresolved rudder trim issues or unless I can find reliable info as to what the EXTEVT pot is.

Again, sorry for the poor information I posted earlier. That being said, I'm pretty confident that I got this right this time. The bottom line is no EPA settings and no subtrim settings on the 328, unless there is a different way to do it. And given how the TX does go into subtrim but with no lasting effect after you turn it off and back on, I assume that it's going to be a no go for this heli. Major bummer.
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Old Jul 07, 2011, 11:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bobepine View Post
[...] Regarding the adjustment screws on the Free Spririt's receiver, I googled this for about one hour and I found very little information, and many people do not agree on what the EXTEVT pot and the Sensitivity pot are for.[...]
From another forum:
"The EXTEVT is the proportion and the SENSITIVE is the gyro gain"

"The EXTEVT pot is the proportion between the main motor and and the tail motor."


and (a procedure to resolve an issue on a Kestrel similar RX, in this case just to have a clue):
"Try turning your gyro down to where it is only a little above the off position. Then try to hover the heli and make adjustments to the motor mixing pot until the heli will hover with no yaw (spin) disregarding the loose feeling tail authority. Once you have the motor mixing right then go back and add a little more gyro until the tail just holds but allows the heli to track like an airplane through turns.

Once the gyro setting feels about right check to see if the heli wants to yaw either direction. If it does then make a little more adjustment to the motor mixing pot and you should be good. The two pots have to tuned in concert as one usually slightly affects the other with regard to flight characteristics.

What you don't want to do is crank the gyro gain way up and then try to adjust the motor mixing as you can never really tell if the motor mixing is correct because the gyro is always trying to compensate."


Hope this helps you to better enjoy your FS.

Greetings
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Old Jul 07, 2011, 12:21 PM
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Originally Posted by helicopcat View Post
From another forum:
"The EXTEVT is the proportion and the SENSITIVE is the gyro gain"

"The EXTEVT pot is the proportion between the main motor and and the tail motor."


and (a procedure to resolve an issue on a Kestrel similar RX, in this case just to have a clue):
"Try turning your gyro down to where it is only a little above the off position. Then try to hover the heli and make adjustments to the motor mixing pot until the heli will hover with no yaw (spin) disregarding the loose feeling tail authority. Once you have the motor mixing right then go back and add a little more gyro until the tail just holds but allows the heli to track like an airplane through turns.

Once the gyro setting feels about right check to see if the heli wants to yaw either direction. If it does then make a little more adjustment to the motor mixing pot and you should be good. The two pots have to tuned in concert as one usually slightly affects the other with regard to flight characteristics.

What you don't want to do is crank the gyro gain way up and then try to adjust the motor mixing as you can never really tell if the motor mixing is correct because the gyro is always trying to compensate."


Hope this helps you to better enjoy your FS.

Greetings
Thanks again for trying to help, hilicopcat. I actually found the same thread you quoted above when I was looking this up on google today. What you quoted is instructions to help a poor lad whose bird keeps spinning around despite using the maximum rudder trim available on the TX. It's not about increasing or decreasing tail response/gyro gain. It's only instruction on how to help someone manage a stable hover. My heli is new and it hovers fine, though I did scare myself today as it took me one hour to fix it after I messed around with the "Sensitive" pot because the slightest turn on that screw makes the heli spin on itself out of control. (In fact, if the "sensitive' pot is turned to much one way or the other, the tail motor just keeps kicking on and off again and again. It totally messed it up.) That's why I'm afraid to go near the other pot, namely, the EXTEVT pot.
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