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Old May 17, 2011, 01:35 AM
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theKM's Avatar
central PA.
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Originally Posted by Wrend View Post
...and SEFF?

Guess Spektrum can finally play with the big boys.
What about SEFF?...

I was witness to a handful of DSM2 crashes this year as I was previous years. So in terms of accounts from my particular reach of data gathering, SEFF this year seemed about the same as 2009. 2010 was the worst. Also note that SEFF this year had extra rules to try and keep the number of transmitters turned on to a minimum (unsure how many people observed these rules, but the rules were there).

Thing about SEFF as compared to Nall, the average cost of model is far lower (foamies at SEFF is rocking fun). I think the ratio in this case, the cost of the receivers and upgrading not a priority compared to $2-5k models that are the norm at Joe Nall.


And to iterate... my posts in this thread are of DSM2... I haven't as yet heard of a DSMX problem at either SEFF or Nall from people I know. Which is a good thing. I think we are genuinely starting to get past all the nonsense that every link is rock solid, and getting down to basic setup and in-flight failures of otherwise generally dependable equipment.
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Old May 17, 2011, 06:32 AM
I am ready for HHAEFI!!
powerlines's Avatar
United States, GA, Cochran
Joined Apr 2004
6,573 Posts
I heard of a Futaba Lockout with a Ultra Bandit.. Not sure if it was radio related. .. I Still think lots of Spektrum lockouts were voltage issues to begin with.. The RX just rebooted... Then agian.. I did have a lockout last SEFF with my foamy that had never locked out before!!


ALL in all. I think the world is better with DSMx!!
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Old May 17, 2011, 06:32 AM
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gunradd's Avatar
Tampa FL
Joined Apr 2009
2,813 Posts
Jack Fetter lost his plane with DSMX at SEFF. Also another guy got the DSMX upgrade then lost 2 planes. Horizon took his transmitter at the event and found he had a bad RF board. They shipped a new one in next day and fixed it at the event. But that didnt help the 2 planes he lost.Also when his transmitter was taken apart at the feild he saw some screws not installed correctly inside the transmitter and he thought it was from the DSMX upgrade. Not sure what his end result was. Great customer support but very poor product imo.

BTW I lost 5 planes due to my RF board going bad with a DX7 and lots of down time sending it back and forth to horizon getting the same problem fixed a few times. There is no good way of checking it because you will pass the range check but then lockout in flight.

My A9 so far has been rock solid for about 6 months of using it.
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Old May 17, 2011, 07:12 AM
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guy hanson's Avatar
Joined Jan 2011
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wrend View Post
...and SEFF?

Guess Spektrum can finally play with the big boys.

The bystanders who have an interest in seeing problems with brands other than their choices (blind brand loyalty), likely saw that problems are possible with all equipment.
I have yet to see a bulletproof brand radio - and don't expect to see one.
The main failure point is still in the the installations and user /installer problems

No matter how careful you may think you are - any of it can fail .
Using good choices and judgement ,you can minimize problems but don't ever believe that only certain brands do /don't fail.
That is stupid - and you can't fix stupid
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Old May 17, 2011, 08:02 AM
It's just a plane.
ZackJones's Avatar
USA, SC, Goose Creek
Joined Aug 2010
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wrend View Post
...and SEFF?
I lost a plane at SEFF this year. It was a new to me 46" 3DHS Vyper. The owner and I were flying it buddy boxed. He was on a JR radio and I was buddy boxed on his DX6i. After taking off he gave control to me and I flew a couple of laps. He took control back for a short period and then give it back to me. While flying the plane, without warning, failed to repond to any input. I alerted him and he tried to take control back but the plane would not respond to his input either. All we could do is watch my new Vyper fall out of the sky and destroy itself. Made me sick to witness it. Can I say with 100% certainty that it was the fault of the equipment -- no because I'm not qualified to test it but I can tell you I've sold every piece of Spektrum gear I own.
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Old May 17, 2011, 09:55 AM
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Zeeb's Avatar
United States, UT, Highland
Joined Jun 2006
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Quote:
Originally Posted by theKM View Post
well, for one, most planes going to Joe Nall are very large and on average quite expensive. much more likely to be getting the all the tech upgrades on the market to keep their investments safe...

...and given that Horizon themselves came out and said that DSM2 wasn't good for congested events like Joe Nall specifically, well I reckon the chances of JR/Spek pilots upgrading/changing their gear before the event would be pretty high...

IMO what is left is just the percentage of typical technical issues...
You do realize that Shulman fly's FUTABA don't you, or didn't you even read the thread that was linked?

Of course Guy didn't specify he was looking for Spektrum "lockout horror stories" but you and several others here "assumed" it was a Spektrum setup. See what happens when you "assume"?
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Old May 17, 2011, 11:28 AM
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theKM's Avatar
central PA.
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Originally Posted by Zeeb View Post
You do realize that Shulman fly's FUTABA don't you, or didn't you even read the thread that was linked?

Of course Guy didn't specify he was looking for Spektrum "lockout horror stories" but you and several others here "assumed" it was a Spektrum setup. See what happens when you "assume"?
Did you bother to read the content in that link at all?, or did you just find out the radio he was using and moved on?... the explanation was in there, he put a metallic mirrored shield between him and the receiver. 2.4ghz gets all unhappy when you block signals, regardless of the brand. Until 900mhz hits the market, shielding problems are more than possible.

What I have been commenting on (and what "the horror" I assumed was referencing the Futaba/Spek youtube ads, so this thread seemed to be about the whole 2.4ghz brand reliability debate) was that in congested situations DSM2 had issues just because of its design. Seemingly other systems (including the DSMX upgrade), are now appearing to be over the design problems and the radio issues we're seeing are new due to setup as done by the individual modeler.


As for assumptions... none made by myself... I actually read the content and found out that they knew exactly what happened, and that it wasn't a hit due to the radio design.
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Old May 17, 2011, 11:34 AM
AndyKunz's Avatar
Illinois
Joined Sep 2001
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But as one poster pointed out in a parallel thread, it was missing diversity. Diversity (ie, remote antennas) would probably have prevented the loss.

Andy
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Old May 17, 2011, 11:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by theKM View Post
Did you bother to read the content in that link at all?, or did you just find out the radio he was using and moved on?... the explanation was in there, he put a metallic mirrored shield between him and the receiver. 2.4ghz gets all unhappy when you block signals, regardless of the brand. Until 900mhz hits the market, shielding problems are more than possible.

What I have been commenting on (and what "the horror" I assumed was referencing the Futaba/Spek youtube ads, so this thread seemed to be about the whole 2.4ghz brand reliability debate) was that in congested situations DSM2 had issues just because of its design. Seemingly other systems (including the DSMX upgrade), are now appearing to be over the design problems and the radio issues we're seeing are new due to setup as done by the individual modeler.
The overwhelming majority of problems on 2.4 has ALWAYS been in the setup and lack of knowledge about signal blocking and or power droop.
There have been more problems with DSM2 because there are a lot more of em.
Even those who mistakenly believe spending the most money will make their setups fool proof will make a mistake .
If you have followed 2.4 since it's introduction to model fliers, you must realize that owner caused problems are the overwhelming reason why failures occur
It was the same with 27/72/50/53 -you name it
Were there actual production and design problems along the way -
absolutely - all of em had and will continue to have em.
This will eventually become a lesser issue and the already high porportion of user caused issues will increase.
The huge influx of users on 2.4 at Joe Nall was due to -guess what - a huge number of users who for the most part were happy users and how do you think all these users of 2.4 came about???
The later arrivals on the scene had the advantage of someone else paving the way for em.
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Old May 17, 2011, 11:54 AM
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DougV's Avatar
United States, FL, Miramar
Joined Dec 2007
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AndyKunz View Post
But as one poster pointed out in a parallel thread, it was missing diversity. Diversity (ie, remote antennas) would probably have prevented the loss.

Andy
LOL, Did those antennas helped you at all these past couple of years at NALL or SEFF?

Doug.
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Old May 17, 2011, 12:20 PM
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elcamino's Avatar
pittsburgh
Joined Oct 2004
603 Posts
I don't think it really matters what type of system your using there is always going to be crashes due to equipment failure and user error. I fly spectrum and have never had a problem there are other people at our field that have had problems with spectrum - JR - Futaba & airtronics systems. Sometimes its been equipment failure and other time user error when you have several hundred people flying planes odds are something is going crash and its really hard to figure out what caused it when your plane is in several hundred pieces. Compared to the old am/fm systems we had before the new 2.4 systems are joy
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Old May 17, 2011, 12:32 PM
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theKM's Avatar
central PA.
Joined Sep 2004
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Quote:
Originally Posted by guy hanson View Post
The overwhelming majority of problems on 2.4 has ALWAYS been in the setup and lack of knowledge about signal blocking and or power droop.
There have been more problems with DSM2 because there are a lot more of em.
Even those who mistakenly believe spending the most money will make their setups fool proof will make a mistake .
If you have followed 2.4 since it's introduction to model fliers, you must realize that owner caused problems are the overwhelming reason why failures occur
It was the same with 27/72/50/53 -you name it
Were there actual production and design problems along the way -
absolutely - all of em had and will continue to have em.
This will eventually become a lesser issue and the already high porportion of user caused issues will increase.
The huge influx of users on 2.4 at Joe Nall was due to -guess what - a huge number of users who for the most part were happy users and how do you think all these users of 2.4 came about???
The later arrivals on the scene had the advantage of someone else paving the way for em.

true enough statements, with the exception of "overwhelming majority of problems on 2.4 has ALWAYS been in the setup and lack of knowledge about signal blocking and or power drop"... this has been claimed for a long time. However, my personal experience with DSM2 issues is with people who fly their planes regularly without ever having a problem, to turn up at SEFF and big events to suddenly have problems and crashed planes. The only instances that I count as a problem are those that I know weren't setup problems.


...but as put in previous posts, the design problems have been addressed, and I now feel we're actually getting down to "setup and lack of knowledge problems"... and people continuing to think that DSM2 is still the bastion of rock solid links even at congested events, is a choice they can continue to make, but it's hooey... by the manufacturer's own admission.
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Old May 17, 2011, 12:34 PM
Did you see that chipmunk?
Fallstonray's Avatar
United States, MD, Fallston
Joined Apr 2011
11 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by elcamino View Post
I don't think it really matters what type of system your using there is always going to be crashes due to equipment failure and user error. I fly spectrum and have never had a problem there are other people at our field that have had problems with spectrum - JR - Futaba & airtronics systems. Sometimes its been equipment failure and other time user error when you have several hundred people flying planes odds are something is going crash and its really hard to figure out what caused it when your plane is in several hundred pieces. Compared to the old am/fm systems we had before the new 2.4 systems are joy
True... True...

Well said
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Old May 17, 2011, 12:35 PM
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theKM's Avatar
central PA.
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Originally Posted by AndyKunz View Post
But as one poster pointed out in a parallel thread, it was missing diversity. Diversity (ie, remote antennas) would probably have prevented the loss.

Andy
it's a setup problem... not having a metallic mirrored shield would have prevented the loss... putting a receiver, in a turbine, on such a thing shield, is negligence, IMO.
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Old May 17, 2011, 01:25 PM
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Russian Federation, Sakha, Yakutsk
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DougV View Post
LOL, Did those antennas helped you at all these past couple of years at NALL or SEFF?

Doug.
LOL!!! Oh SNAP!
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