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Old Jul 03, 2012, 02:32 PM
Balsa Builder. With some foam.
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Eastern Norway Scandinavia
Joined Dec 2009
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Agree. But I can't say i know a better aileron trainer, than the UM T28. It's so light, so there are little damage if crash. Use small throws, and careful with the throttle. Just let the sticks go if you are in trouble. It's a good step up from the Champ.
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Old Jul 04, 2012, 01:20 PM
Arrowhead
Joined Dec 2010
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Check out the new Carbon Cub SS. Maidened mine last night, and was completely blown away by how well-behaved it is. In fairness, I had been trying to fly the UM T-28 indoors over the winter. Walls add an extra level of difficulty...

I want to say the Carbon Cub is as easy to fly as the HZ Super Cub, but that's probably unfair to a first-time flyer. It does have good speed & power, but will slow to a crawl, especially with the flaps (!) down. The stock battery allows lots of flight time, and the airframe is as tough as any of the other UM birds. Stalls straight ahead; I think I got it into an incipient spin once, but had to work for it, and it came out after about 1/2 a rotation. The gyro system really makes it feel & look solid in the air (one guy arriving at the field while I was flying thought it was a much larger plane, until he saw it in the pits).

A fair rating would probably be about 4.5. With 5 channels there's more going on than with a 3CH Cub, but I think the A3SX really makes it easier than other 4CH UMs. As soon as I had it levelled out after takeoff (hand launch), it felt as comfortable as my tried & true Trojan & Wildcat.
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Old Jul 04, 2012, 06:27 PM
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United States, FL, Altamonte Springs
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Originally Posted by CF105 View Post
Well... I don't think the rating system is the problem...

The UM P-51 is rated at an 8, "good 3rd plane". Not a good choice for one's first steps in RC flying. In fairness... it's the first one I got too, but then I found this rating list... and put it away unflown.
An update. After trashing my first-ever-plane-bought UM P51 five times (new nose, new main shaft, landing gear ripped off, etc.... each crash costing under $5) I have successfully flown it without issue 9 times over the past week. It took a combination of stubbornness, a large park + calm day + and trimming to the max to get it to fly stably. It's probably not an 8 - although it is squirrely and is a handful in the wind. However, it's light and takes abuse pretty well (but not lightposts and pavement

My PZ T28D (the big brother) has been flown successfully a few times now. It's more stable than the similar flying UM P51, but it's much faster and would explode if I landed it like the ultra micros. The speed, weight, and cost difference between repairing a T28 and UM P51 makes me think the P51 would be a better beginner plane (with caveats - trimming, large park, calm day)

OTOH, my new UM Stryker 180 is disaster. Too fast, too brittle, too hard to see once it gets away. I flew this plane peacefully for a few minutes and wham, one wrong move and it's in two pieces. This plane is a definite 8 or higher. I've already glued back the nose section three times and suspect I'll have to get a new body after two more crashes.

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Originally Posted by CF105 View Post
While the Ember is rated as a 2.25 (beginner can solo), there are two other factors here: first, the Ember really is not an outdoor plane, except on dead-calm days. Secondly, when first learning to fly RC, it should be in calm conditions (unless you're buddy-boxing). Trust me, I had read that many times, but still had to learn it the hard way.
IMO Ember 2 is a large park, calm day flyer. It's too brittle to handle hard surface (indoors) crashes and moves fast enough to require a large space. Neither fish nor fowl. If the prop/shaft didn't break so easily, I'd give it a 2.25.

My UM P51 is easier to fly than the Ember - which hates the slightest breeze and tip stalls constantly (but recovers). It may be because of the flight sim time I invested in low-wing planes like the P51. I've since retired my Ember 2 after a dozen plus flights. Not much I can learn for it.

Also playing around with a high wing trainer, but the tiny wheels makes it difficult to takeoff and land except on paved surfaces. I'm not competent to land so accurately
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Old Jul 25, 2012, 12:55 AM
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Belgium
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Hi CF105,

I own a pkz vapor, ember2 and j-3 cub which I really enjoy flying.
But, I also own a pkz um P-51 which I failed to fly at several occasions. After those I bought a pkz T28-D (the big one) and now recently a E-flite Carbon Cub SS. I never had the courage to maiden the two last planes and now your post confused me: should I get a pkz um T28 or should I fly my Carbon cub?
I asked something similar on another forum and the general advice was that the Carbon cub was way more difficult to master than the Trojans (both big and um).
What would be your advice?
Thanks for helping!
Best regards, Tom.

Quote:
Originally Posted by CF105 View Post
Check out the new Carbon Cub SS. Maidened mine last night, and was completely blown away by how well-behaved it is. In fairness, I had been trying to fly the UM T-28 indoors over the winter. Walls add an extra level of difficulty...

I want to say the Carbon Cub is as easy to fly as the HZ Super Cub, but that's probably unfair to a first-time flyer. It does have good speed & power, but will slow to a crawl, especially with the flaps (!) down. The stock battery allows lots of flight time, and the airframe is as tough as any of the other UM birds. Stalls straight ahead; I think I got it into an incipient spin once, but had to work for it, and it came out after about 1/2 a rotation. The gyro system really makes it feel & look solid in the air (one guy arriving at the field while I was flying thought it was a much larger plane, until he saw it in the pits).

A fair rating would probably be about 4.5. With 5 channels there's more going on than with a 3CH Cub, but I think the A3SX really makes it easier than other 4CH UMs. As soon as I had it levelled out after takeoff (hand launch), it felt as comfortable as my tried & true Trojan & Wildcat.
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Old Jul 25, 2012, 12:34 PM
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United Kingdom
Joined Jul 2012
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I'm a complete beginner and I've successfully flown my PZ T-28D four times now. The only training I had was from Phoenix (with the set plane to 100% and speed to 125%) and from browsing these forums for beginner tips. Just get it high enough in the air, make sure you're not flying it too slow and you'll be all right. I've found the landings to be even easier than in the sim.
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Old Jul 25, 2012, 04:56 PM
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Joined Dec 2010
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Originally Posted by RC-Tom View Post
Hi CF105,

I own a pkz vapor, ember2 and j-3 cub which I really enjoy flying.
But, I also own a pkz um P-51 which I failed to fly at several occasions. After those I bought a pkz T28-D (the big one) and now recently a E-flite Carbon Cub SS. I never had the courage to maiden the two last planes and now your post confused me: should I get a pkz um T28 or should I fly my Carbon cub?
I asked something similar on another forum and the general advice was that the Carbon cub was way more difficult to master than the Trojans (both big and um).
What would be your advice?
Thanks for helping!
Best regards, Tom.
I've heard the P-51 is a handful. I have one, but have not dared to fly it yet, myself.

I flew indoors last winter, starting with a micro J-3, an Ember 2, and later a UM T-28. The Ember didn't fly much - I tend towards "scale" type planes. I flew the J-3 a LOT. Went from careening off the gym walls to flying it easily. The UM T-28... well I demolished one, and damaged a second before being able to reliably keep it airborne.

The Carbon Cub, I've only flown outside. The only micro I've done that with so far, in fact. I need to dust off the T-28 and try it outside! What I like about the CC is, with a headwind you can slow it down to virtually zero groundspeed, and you don't have to flight hard to keep it level. I'm inclined to say, provided you fly it conservatively, at least until you're comfortable with it, the CC is a really good choice for learning ailerons. As far as UM's go.

The regular T-28... that's what I really learned ailerons on. It will seem a bit "twitchy" at first, compared to the 3CH planes. If you're interested in something other than a micro, I'd really recommend it. Just make sure to use the recommended control settings, and fly conservatively until you're good & comfortable. Planes seem to always know when you're getting a bit too cocky...
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Old Jul 27, 2012, 02:14 PM
3D wing innovator
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Dallas, Texas
Joined Dec 2009
2,150 Posts
I see 10 levels that could be compressed into 5.
Who has the experience to differentiate 10 distinct levels??
I like the intent and direction of the thread, but..
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Old Jul 27, 2012, 02:45 PM
Balsa Builder. With some foam.
ArneHu's Avatar
Eastern Norway Scandinavia
Joined Dec 2009
1,084 Posts
Have somebody mention the Firebird Stratos? It must be the best trainer I have tried. I will call it a number one. Perfect for a starter.
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Old Jul 27, 2012, 09:44 PM
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Angels Camp, California
Joined Jan 2006
920 Posts
sounds good

I haven't flown one yet but I only hear positive things about it.
People are always asking what I recommend. I'm looking forward to trying one.
All comments have been good about it being a good first plane.

LannyG
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Old Jul 28, 2012, 08:42 AM
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Belgium
Joined Aug 2008
37 Posts
Maidened my CC Cub ;-)

Quote:
Originally Posted by CF105 View Post
I've heard the P-51 is a handful. I have one, but have not dared to fly it yet, myself.

I flew indoors last winter, starting with a micro J-3, an Ember 2, and later a UM T-28. The Ember didn't fly much - I tend towards "scale" type planes. I flew the J-3 a LOT. Went from careening off the gym walls to flying it easily. The UM T-28... well I demolished one, and damaged a second before being able to reliably keep it airborne.

The Carbon Cub, I've only flown outside. The only micro I've done that with so far, in fact. I need to dust off the T-28 and try it outside! What I like about the CC is, with a headwind you can slow it down to virtually zero groundspeed, and you don't have to flight hard to keep it level. I'm inclined to say, provided you fly it conservatively, at least until you're comfortable with it, the CC is a really good choice for learning ailerons. As far as UM's go.

The regular T-28... that's what I really learned ailerons on. It will seem a bit "twitchy" at first, compared to the 3CH planes. If you're interested in something other than a micro, I'd really recommend it. Just make sure to use the recommended control settings, and fly conservatively until you're good & comfortable. Planes seem to always know when you're getting a bit too cocky...
Thank you for your advice!
This morning I started flying with my J-3 to warm-up. It flew fine as usual although there was some wind. After some minutes I finally got the guts to try the CC-cub as my first aileron plane. And, yes, it flies great! Faster than the J-3 for sure but stable and very controllable. Off course, Iím sure you all know the feeling: what goes up must come down made me nervous. Due to its speed and my lack of experience it had to endure some rough landings (I mostly overshot my chosen landing spot because of the planes speed and my lack of speed). But apart from a slightly shorter prop there was no damage at all. So, I could conclude that the CC-cub is less brittle than it looks. Iíve got a spare prop but I will buy another one before I take my CC-cub on vacation to ItalyÖ
So, Iím glad I choose the CC-cub instead of my pkz T-28D as first aileron plane because Iím almost certain that I would have been busy gluing my Trojan back together now. It wouldnít have survived the landing style the cub had to endure.
I will try to fly it again as soon as possible and I will concentrate on basic flying, no rolls, no loops, no inverted flights.
Today I accidently flew straight up once and was glad I could recover. Maybe sim-training does help after all.
Letís now concentrate on not getting cocky because you are absolutely right: RC-planes have a sense for this. So, I will hang this above my bed: Still much to learn, not an expert by any means!
Thanks for all the advice and thumbs up for RC-groups!

Tom.
PS I noticed that the CC-cubs esc makes the motor scream (almost like a baby) when you give it a hard time ;-( Thatís a nice touch which tells you to be gentle and try to land with style.
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Old Jul 28, 2012, 11:00 AM
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Georgia
Joined Jun 2007
637 Posts
3 to 4 DHC-2 Beaver 25e ARF E-flite (EFL4525)
Suggest 3 to 4 depending on the individuals.
This plane flies very well, penetrates well, and has no bad habits. Increased Expo is the secret for new pilots.
May require help of a somewhat experienced modeler to deal with a few details, due to production variations and clearances in the tail linkages.
With an E-Flite Power 32 motor, 4C 3300mah battery, and a 60A ESC, thrust to weight is quite favorable, if not quite up to 3D standards. A BEC capable of 3-6A should be used if flaps are operative and 6 digital servos are used. Depending on throttle settings, 5 to 8 minutes of powered flight is normal. Propellers - - 13"x6.5 electric or 12"x6 3blade for smoothness and more realistic behavior. Very good looking model
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Old Jul 28, 2012, 12:32 PM
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DeBary, FL
Joined Nov 2010
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RC-Tom View Post
I finally got the guts to try the CC-cub as my first aileron plane. And, yes, it flies great! Faster than the J-3 for sure but stable and very controllable. Off course, Iím sure you all know the feeling: what goes up must come down made me nervous. Due to its speed...
I've watch pros do maidens on many planes, and re-maidens on 'rebuilds' and such. Basically, flights where the pilot doesn't really know -exactly- what's going to happen.

After launch the first thing they did was trim for neutral throttle straight and level. Without that there's no 'baseline.'

The second thing they did, and this is really why I'm writing, is to look at the -glide- characteristics. Because, as you said, it's got to come down, landing is basically a glide, and with a maiden or a rebuild there's no way to know when a landing -might- be immediately necessary (ie unintended deadstick). So it's a good thing to know how to land it before they need it.

What they did was go about a eight mistakes high, and gradually back of the throttle to see how slow it could fly till it started to tip over. Then throttle up to see how it recovered. Also several similar passes checking the elevator, rudder and ailerons to see how they caused the plane to behave at very slow speed.

So, to learn how to land, first learn how to glide. During downwind, base, and final legs, -aim- for a spot right in front of you, about eye high. You'll find out what throttle setting you need to make it glide at a certain rate to arrive at a certain height over a certain distance. Then lower the aim height to 3', then 1', and before you know it you're at 0' and it's landed.

Landing is a lot easier if you think of it as 'what will -it- do when -I- tell it to do 'this' and not 'OMG it just did 'that' what do I need to do to fix it.' Of course, wind varies, and there's occasional turbulence, but knowing what it's going to do in a glide is the most important aspect of landing.

Quote:
So, I could conclude that the CC-cub is less brittle than it looks.
Yes, very durable. Hard landings may drop the LG strut fairing - they are there for aerodynamic as well as cosmetic purposes and are not disposable. (Really more apparent in heavier wind not so much i smooth/calm air.)

Quote:
I will concentrate on basic flying, no rolls, no loops, no inverted flights.
Nah, don't hesitate to fool around with it AS LONG AS YOU ARE A DOZEN MISTAKES HIGH! LOL! Anything bad happens, center both sticks and the dihedral will force the plane to recover to straight and level.

Quote:
Letís now concentrate on not getting cocky because you are absolutely right: RC-planes have a sense for this.
That is patently UNtrue. Planes are designed and built to fly, and they know *only* how to fly. They *WANT* to fly. ...the ground, OTOH, now that's another story. :/ It is to be avoided until you want the plane to make contact with it. And watch out for tree magnets - they are real. Until you get comfortable stay away from any ground object by at least the height of the object. That means trees, buildings, sheds, cars, and people because they all cause turbulence in any wind, and UMs are extremely susceptible to turbulence. I had an instance where -I- was the magnet and it messed me up! A fun trick with slow UMs is to catch them out of the air. I was flying Champ, had the wind directly at my back and was aiming for a spot elbow high and two feet away from me. It was coming in perfectly straight on a perfect glide. Then, about 10' away from me it made a right turn and hit me squarely in the chest - *I* was the 'people magnet.' The turbulence caused by my body blocking the wind was enough to throw it off. Since my right hand was already out to catch the plane and not on the stick (controlling height by throttle for the last few seconds) I couldn't steer it away from me in time. With that I learned I had to gauge the wind direction better so I was 'less magnetic.'

Quote:
So, I will hang this above my bed: Still much to learn, not an expert by any means!
No. Go fly it. You can't gain any 'muscle memory' in your eyeballs by looking at it. LOL! Only your fingers on the stick can learn anything. Do as you just said, fly the J3 first to warm up, then the CC. Eventually you'll get used to the slightly greater speed and it will become -easy-.
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Old Jul 31, 2012, 07:34 AM
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where on List.... Champ Skills Solo

I can solo Champ with NO NO wind...Where am I on rating list????

I am looking for next plane I could fly with my Skills but what are my Skills??

Hap
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Old Jul 31, 2012, 08:32 AM
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NSW, Australia
Joined Feb 2011
2,120 Posts
The Champ is a pleasant flier in calm weather, I was flying today with maybe 5mph winds and thats about as high as I'd really take it. It was almost stationary at normal 30% throttle cruise going into the wind haha...

If you can handle it solo then you should try some more advnturous flying with it - try a loop or two when you have some altitude up and after you can do those practise touch and go landings. Get things precise - pick a spot to land and land on it. Fly around that marker, under that goal post.

Once you feel comfortable with the plane in any situation then you are ready to move on.

Cheers - boingk
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Old Jul 31, 2012, 03:58 PM
no discrimination, I crash all
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United States, NC, Raleigh
Joined Nov 2011
292 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by hap.bob. View Post
I can solo Champ with NO NO wind...Where am I on rating list????

I am looking for next plane I could fly with my Skills but what are my Skills??

Hap
I also started with champ, and then went to Super Cub, and now to Parkzone t-28. Seems to have worked well for me. They are all very easy to repair when a mishap happens (only a matter of time ).
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