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Old Sep 13, 2011, 11:04 AM
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Originally Posted by msdumo View Post
Other flyers have reported that Parkzone did make improvements including a new more powerful motor.

It's still going to move me up the food chain and open the door for some 3D flight exposure.
Since you are considering going 3d, consider getting something like the Twisted Hobbys Extra Slick. It is EPP so it is very durable, is very aerobatic, and is a very capable 3d machine (thrust ratio of 1.6 with 2s, etc). It has a 32 inch wing span, but I find it easier to fly out of my backyard (130x130x180 ft) than my T-28. There are other EPP alternatives as well. You will pay a little more (it cost me about 181$ to get the parts for mine but that included 3 batteries), but it short circuits a step as well. You would have to build it. That doesn't take all that long (couple hours, maybe 4 the first time).
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Old Sep 13, 2011, 08:43 PM
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Binaryclock:
I was going to go for the Beast but decided to go with the Sukhoi 26XT because I have 10 Lipos for my UM T28 and because the Sukhoi is much more robust and easier to fix than the Beast. Lipos for The Beast are $14ea and $20 CAD. If I could find cheaper Lipos I might change my mind.

Besides I motorcycle and the Sukhoi fits in one of my side luggage. The Beast being a biplane would be a tight squeeze and could be damaged in transport.

You're right about price. The Beast is more plane for the same money.
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Old Sep 13, 2011, 08:50 PM
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If I could find cheaper Lipos I might change my mind.
Looked on HobbyKing? I get my little 20c 2s 180mAh Flightmax packs from them for about $2 each and they are brilliant in my little 18"/2.4oz flying wing. I reckon they'd probably work for the Beast, too.

Hear you on the transport issue ('88 CBR1000F & '97 XR600R) but you might be surprised at the dimensions. Measure them out compared to a plane you already take and see if it'll still fit.

Cheers - boingk
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Old Sep 14, 2011, 11:03 AM
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Originally Posted by Madratter View Post
Since you are considering going 3d, consider getting something like the Twisted Hobbys Extra Slick. It is EPP so it is very durable, is very aerobatic, and is a very capable 3d machine (thrust ratio of 1.6 with 2s, etc). It has a 32 inch wing span, but I find it easier to fly out of my backyard (130x130x180 ft) than my T-28. There are other EPP alternatives as well. You will pay a little more (it cost me about 181$ to get the parts for mine but that included 3 batteries), but it short circuits a step as well. You would have to build it. That doesn't take all that long (couple hours, maybe 4 the first time).
Sounds like Im on the right track. im looking for a "3d" trainer so to speak myself. Where do I find some good EPP models?
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Old Sep 14, 2011, 11:26 AM
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If you're not worried about size, I've heard the UM Extra 300 3D is amazing to learn 3D on since it's so slow and you have time to think.
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Old Sep 14, 2011, 12:10 PM
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Looking for outdoor only, and durable. I've seen those, no thanks.
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Old Sep 14, 2011, 04:25 PM
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Originally Posted by Warchild View Post
Looking for outdoor only, and durable.
TechOne Piaget

$34 of very durable EPP which has taught many people the basics of 3D flight.

There's a thread covering this plane, and I'd summarise the basics as follows:

- Go with 2S instead of 3S as suggested by HobbyKing.
- Use a 8"x4" prop instead of the supplied 9"x5".
- A 10A ESC is fine. 12A gives overhead. The 18A recommended by HK is unnecessary weight.
- If cheap is the goal, you'll need a singe HXT900 servo and two HXT500s.

It can turn on a dime and execute just about any 3D maneuver that doesn't require lots of weight and momentum, but it's also capable of absorbing immense amounts of damage. During an average 30min session, I'll smack mine straight on the nose typically at least once, and tumble it into the ground sideways once or twice more, and usually I just pick it up and throw it into the air again.

I'd rate it as an 8 or a 9 - a good third plane if the first two have taught you the basics, and now you want to improve your orientation skills with a 3D plane.

It also handles surprising amounts of wind.
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Old Sep 14, 2011, 07:51 PM
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Thats what Im looking for...
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Old Sep 14, 2011, 09:39 PM
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If cheap is the goal, you'll need a singe HXT900 servo and two HXT500s
Not a fan of the HXT series of servos, they're quite heavy and just as reliable as the lighter, cheaper, HK 'orange case' series. The ones I'd use would be the HK15168's as they actually weigh in at 9g with cable/plug/horn attached and perform very nicely. Yet to have a problem with them, and I have over a dozen in use on airframes from a 2lb/900g pusher jet, to a 38" J-3 Cub, to a high-gee 32" balsa wing.

With smaller servos, the HobbyKing 'MiniMan' 4.3g servos have also served me well in a variety of small models including a micro EDF jet and an 18"/2.4oz balsa wing.

On a model of the Piagets size, though, I'd stick with the HK15168's. Motor I'd suggest from experience would be either HobbyKing's C20 1550kv outrunner or their 24g Hextronik 1500kv outrunner. Both with a 12A ESC and GWS HD 8x4 prop. That setup would see you at 14oz static thrust for 9A load with 2s lipos, pitch speed around 35mph. Best part is you've got an average of 9oz thrust from static to pitch speed, very tractable. This BlueSeries ESC is possibly one of the best sub $10 ESC's I've encountered and great for 3D because of its very smooth throttle curve and easy transmitter programming.

Another route you could go for some 'vintage' flavoured 3D is to make a balsa 3D craft. I had one of HK's GeeBee balsa kits but it got stolen... during the few times I flew it I loved it, would highly recommend it to others interested in building their own balsa/3D model.

Cheers - boingk

EDIT: Sorry for looking like a darn advertisement for HobbyKing, but I've got no local suppliers where I am and am forced to use internet buying only. They are simply the best option for me in that regard.
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Old Sep 14, 2011, 09:53 PM
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Originally Posted by boingk View Post
EDIT: Sorry for looking like a darn advertisement for HobbyKing, but I've got no local suppliers where I am and am forced to use internet buying only. They are simply the best option for me in that regard.
I know how you feel

Half the time I'm worried that people will think I'm Mr. Hobbyking posting incognito. It's just that they're convenient and cheap. Some of their gear is OK, and some is crap, but the low prices make it easy and fun to experiment.

Thanks for the recommendation re servos.
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Old Sep 15, 2011, 07:37 AM
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Originally Posted by H2SO4
Some of their gear is OK, and some is crap ... Thanks for the recommendation re servos.
No worries mate. Always happy to pass on tips for gear thats worked consistently well for me - especially as the quality can be a bit variable as you said.

Cheers - boingk
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Old Sep 15, 2011, 08:29 AM
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HK is damn good for the price. We get so ripped off in Canada/US that I have no issues sending my money overseas. Case in point, Sbach $169 , E-Flite 1s 150mah stock battery $8.99 where turnigy nano-tech 160mah is $1.37. I've seen 4s5000mah lipos exceed $125, turnigy HK is like $19.99 :P

I don't expect them to be on par with China prices, that's impossible. But at least get within only double the price of HK and I'll support the american companies. When prices are 4 to 5 times more, than it makes no sense to me. if you don't buy them at those stupid prices, then they'll bring the prices down.. the companies will still survive it's just than the CEO won't be able to buy that 200 foot yacht.

Do the math. Purchase a 4s5000mah lipo from a china factory for $10-$20. Solder it, heatshrink it and put your company name on it. Sell it for $125. That's $105 profit from a $20 purchase.. it's highway robbery. Usually those types of profits are associated with fraud :P Sure, there are more business costs involved but I'm pretty certain that the costs don't add up to $105 per battery.

If companies would stop gouging us and get their prices in a normal range, I think they'd make a ton more. Case in point, the Beast for $99. If they made all their UMXs $99, they'd be selling 2 or 3 to each person instead of 1 to someone once in a while.

People know when they are getting ripped off. Some people have money to burn and that's just fine. But for the rest of us with kids, mortgages, car payments, etc, it's hard to swallow :P
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Last edited by binaryclock; Sep 15, 2011 at 08:38 AM.
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Old Sep 15, 2011, 08:43 AM
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Originally Posted by binaryclock View Post
HK is damn good for the price. We get so ripped off in Canada/US that I have no issues sending my money overseas. Case in point, Sbach $169 , E-Flite 1s 150mah stock battery $8.99 where turnigy nano-tech 160mah is $1.37. I've seen 4s5000mah lipos exceed $125, turnigy HK is like $19.99 :P

I don't expect them to be on par with China prices, that's impossible. But at least get within only double the price of HK and I'll support the american companies. When prices are 4 to 5 times more, than it makes no sense to me. if you don't buy them at those stupid prices, then they'll bring the prices down.. the companies will still survive it's just than the CEO won't be able to buy that 200 foot yacht.

If companies would stop gouging us and get their prices in a normal range, I think they'd make a ton more. Case in point, the Beast for $99. If they made all their UMXs $99, they'd be selling 2 or 3 to each person instead of 1 to someone once in a while.
This morning the mailman delivered 3 times 2200mAh 3S 40C from HK's Aussie warehouse to my front door for $52. (I'm going to have to teach that mailman to hide my packages in the carport so the wife doesn't see them, but that's a different issue )

At the LHS, which is actually in the centre of the city because most of the regional hobby stores died out already, all the LiPos have 3-digit price tags and they're on display in locked glass cabinets, as if they weren't obsolete models from half a decade ago.

Their customers must be either insane or terribly ill-informed. Either way, it's not a business model that deserves to survive.
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Old Sep 15, 2011, 08:43 AM
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But for the rest of us with kids, mortgages, car payments, etc, it's hard to swallow :P
Yeah, so we bend over instead

Sorry, couldn't resist that one

Definitely know what you're saying mate. As for glass cased, overpriced, 5y/o dead-before-you-get-it lipos... yeah thats total BS. My local still stocks NiMh gear FFS. If the guy was really into the hobby he'd know thats not where its going - and I think thats a big part of the problem.

- boingk
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Old Sep 15, 2011, 08:50 AM
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Well it's sad because it's not the LHS's fault. They purchase these lipos at high prices already from the companies who make them and set the prices. The LHS's only make maybe 5%-20% on the sale which they need to since they have to buy it, stock it, sell it. And the LHS doesn't go through tons of them like the manufacturer does.

So while I do support my LHS on purchases such as UMs, and The UMX Beast, and any other planes I feel are a good deal, I will not ever purchase a lipo from them because they have no lipos within a normal range.

I believe the companies have figured the nitro guys think the $175 lipo is an amazing deal because they purchase more than $175 in nitro on a weekend sometimes. Problem is, it's gouging and the only people who ever see that are the informed on the forums :P

People still use the NiMH and are fine with that. Gotta remember there are casual RC folks or folks with older gear/chargers that just want to take their 4x4 out for a spin once in a while. But it's sad when you see the LHS trying to push a NiMH charger and battery on to a new customer because they want to move stock.
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