In looking around for an open launch hull to put my Graham TVR1A in, I found very few available hulls. that I liked.
Seeing as how there is more Torpedo stern hull obsession on the west side of the pond, me included, I was interested when bgnome posted pictures of a group of full size steam boats built by Ronnie Baird of Rappahannock Boat Works.
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showt...1297797&page=2

And when I saw that plans and molds were available for the 3 styles of hulls: wineglass, fantail & torpedo stern I had to inquire about them.
http://www.tinypower.com/boatstyl.htm

I was told that the full size torpedo stern hull was very stable and leaves very little wake.
But alas, I was told there were no plans.
Ronnie builds like the famous designers of the past. He carves a ½ hull model then takes the lines & measurements off that to build full size. (Or any size for that matter)
The current full size Torpedo stern, Holly Lyn, is 24’ length & beam of 6’6”.

Seeing as how I had requested to purchase plans, Ronnie asked if I could use tracings of the mold station shapes (shadows) from the ½ hull and enlarge them to whatever size I wanted.
I would still have neither side view drawings nor anything else other than some pictures of the construction of Holly Lyn.

Hey, who said life was easy? Let’s do it…..

I paid Ronnie for the equivalent of plans and shortly I had mold shape drawings (hull shadows) and a CD with a few construction and finished pictures.
I figured I would build in the same manner as they do full size. Strip plank using Poplar for the hull & Spanish Cedar for the trim, decks & interior.
This is what we hope to end up with.

I always love a torpedo boat stern...as I am making a torpedo boat destroyer ( with appropriate stern) myself

Good luck Reg--- get that build thread going

Cool.

Get the build on?? OK
First thing was to enlarge the shape drawings to a suitable size.
His ½ hull model is 24” so I enlarged the mold tracings (shadows) 200% to get a 48” hull length and 13” beam and that comes out to 1/6th scale from the full size.
I set up the templates on 2 lite ply pieces to cut Identical halves to make each bulkhead. You can see the beginning of all my notes to myself about corrections already.

I got the keel lines by using the inside top of the molding shapes lined up with my datum line. I marked the building board with the correct mold spacing & marked the bottom of each mold. On the building board I worked out the bow & stern shape using the pictures from Ronnie as a reference.

Then I set about to build a builders frame as used in full size building. I used the same method for the bow & stern construction as Ronnie did.
This is pictures of what we will be building to scale.

First I separated the 2 shadow halves from each other and made up a frame work that positioned each shadow the correct height above the building frame.

The building frame is glued down to the MDF building board and we are setting up each shadow on the correct station position.

THIS IS GREAT !
USING FULL SIZE BUILDING PRACTICES
I will be waiting for the next part !
Dunc2504

Finally this secret build has been unveiled. Don't ask me how I know but there will be some pretty impressive hull pix to behold, soon, I hope :-)

Oh yes, I've been waiting for this build to go live!
A very worthy subject, and her big sister is stunning on the water.

I took video of her under way, I just don't recal if I posted it anywhere. I need to see if I still have it.

Hummmm….I have Dunc in England waiting for the next part, kno3 in Germany implying that this is a secret build possibly a conspiracy to show a build while it is already done and bgnome waiting for the build to go live. Guess I should get on with it.?
Getting all of the hull shadows aligned and using a fairing batten to check the flow of the hull lines showed adjustments needed in height of 3 shadows & several adjustments on hull sides.
If you follow any of the threads on the forums where they are building full size canoe's or boats you will find that this is a common process no matter how they came up with the shadows lines.

The next part will be laminating up the inner keel (in place on the cutouts in the shadows.)
The inner bow frame will be laminated in place after a bow former is cut to shape. The bow former will be like a shadow/mold shape only running fore & aft. It will not be part of the boat.
The stern frame will be a solid piece of spruce cut to shape and temporally attached to the #11 shadow/mold.
You can see what I am talking about in the 2 pictures of the full size construction above in post #7

How long are you going to keep us waiting for some planks on the molds? I have a feeling (backed by some rumours) that you intend to keep feeding us one build pic every few days, while the finished hull already sits on your desk for your own selfish enjoyment

Reg can't type right now, as he is out steaming around in his boat- photos at 6pm!!

Ahhh well, wish that it were......finished that is.

Hope you guy's had a happy Mothers day!

Since it is a build log, we will get on with it, regardless of rumors.
Where were we? Ok here is the stern timber/frame. I have marked the center & approximate material to remove for the strip planks to lie correctly. Next pic is the stern frame temporary attached to station 11 with the 1st strip of inner keel poplar frame laying on it for a fitting. (The keel frame will be multiple layers of poplar also)
The bow former is made & the inner bow frame will be of laminated poplar. Here I am showing the steam cleaning device I use to steam my wood and form into the shape I need. It works very well and also with a silicon tube can be used for testing an engine on steam.

In this build I am showing what works for me. I have products that I like and opinions about them. Since what works for me may not work for you, please use what you like.

With that said, I will not use hobby store epoxy, 5 minute/10 minute/15 minute stuff.
In the climate where I live, it will not hold up if the model is left in the afternoon sun in the summer time. I use Devcon 2 Ton 30 minute epoxy and West Epoxy on my models and full size boats.
The next pic shows the stern frame that has been shaped and is glued to the 1st keel layer.
Next are the bow layers being laminated in place with the successive keel layers. Nothing is being glued to the shadows/moldings.

Finished inner keel/bow/stern.

Now we gotta start milling out strip planking.
You'll notice that the shear in the 1st full size pictures had 2 planks of a different color than the rest of the planks. The shear planks are Spanish cedar & the rest of the planks are Poplar.
So I will have to mill some of both kinds of wood.
I have a standard 12" table saw and a Byrnes 4" table saw. With that I can rough cut and finish cut the sizes I need for modeling. I also have a Byrnes thickness sander which helps me get consistent wood dimensions. These tools are not cheap but if you can manage to get them they will last a lifetime.

Terrific, Reg! Thanks for sharing..

Gotta love masters at work

Hypnotized = ME

Originally Posted by Reg Hinnant

I use Devcon 2 Ton 30 minute epoxy and West Epoxy on my models and full size boats.

Models must be easy then.

Nice tools!

Thanks guys!
I forgot to give Byrnes site address. www.byrnesmodelmachines.com

Tom, models are not easier they just don't take as long to build. LOL
Good tools help.

OK we got some planks milled so lets get them on. I am following Ronnie's procedure in his pictures where he started with the Spanish cedar shear planks.
(Moe, I'm not the Master.....I am copying the Master!)

The shear line is one of the mosst critical lines on a boat, model or full size.
Since I have no line drawings I am going by what I see in his pictures and I will be letting the plank set the curve, supported by 3 spacers along the hull sides..

OK how about some tulip poplar strips?
The key to strip planking is thin strips with epoxy applied edge to edge. In canoe building they sometimes staple the planks together & on a larger canoe/boat they will use planking that has a cove & bead edge or nail each plank to the previous one.
Ronnie has a good build explanation on his site if you care to read about it.
I will be just edge gluing the planks. At some point as the hull starts to curve I will have to bevel the edges to get the plank to lay to the curve.
But for now its just one on top of the other. One at a time so it will get boring quickly.

absolutely stunning work. Its definitely keeping me inspired for my next project. granted, my next project isn't steam. But the only thing I have to go off of are photos of a recent reproduction and archaeological notes.
Which reminds me, another field trip is in order for next week to visit boaters and their boats.

What I am using to apply the epoxy to the plank edges is a Q Tip dipped in epoxy and then rolled on the plank edge. That worked well enough to do it that way through out the planking process.

As I am approaching the curve of the hull into the bilge, I have to bevel the plank sides and it is requiring something other than clamps to hold the plank. I purchased a set of plank clamps and found out they came as a kit to put together. I spent a day putting them together and also added sand paper to the inner edges to hold tight against the shadow bulkheads. I found they were not very good for my application so I came up with my own home made holders to be used with clamps. They worked much better.

OK, now lets see if we can go around the curve of the hull........

Almost there.......

Wheres the "puke" button, I'm full of popcorn......

I am now adding my 1st plank on the bottom center line. It is narrower than the inner keel plank so that the planking to each side will have a ledge to over lap onto the inner keel. Actually it is the width of the external keel.

Clamps, clamps & more darn clamps. These are several years old & I am starting to loose a few with each use. Good thing they are cheap when you buy them in tubes full.

Hey! look what I found!

the holly lynne on lake anna (0 min 15 sec)

This is really a fine build and man are you moving fast!

Planking is a lot of work, yours is looking good.

Thanks bg.

Tryig to get on with it, Tom.

Appreciate it MT,trying to do the best I can.

And more planks. I am finding that I am having to steam the bow sections to get the shape with the twist.

At this point I am refering to the pictures of strip planking on Ronnie's site often, to get an idea of how he runs his planks.
http://www.tinypower.com/building.htm
It includes a very good explanation of the building process I am following.

Great so far! Did you only glue the wood strips to eachother or also to the ribs?

Hi kno3,
The planks are only glued to each other and the laminated keel & bow frame & stern frame. When finished the shadows/molds will be lifted out of the hull.

Do you coat the edges of your "shadows" to keep the planks from getting glued to them here and there? I was thinking it ultimately could make it a little more "dicey"getting the hull off the form?

Nice process and execution

Originally Posted by mogogear

Do you coat the edges of your "shadows" to keep the planks from getting glued to them here and there? I was thinking it ultimately could make it a little more "dicey"getting the hull off the form?

Nice process and execution

Im looking forward to the answer to Mogo's question...
Beeing newbie and not knowing any better, I used strips of wax paper to prevent planks from bonding to the shadow frames on a little tender...

Reg,

Beautiful build, I am going to follow this one.

Ed

Hi Tim B,
Your tender looks good!
The wax paper will do the job for you as long as it stays in place.
What I do is take a candle and rub the bottom on the shadow frame edges & any area you do not want the glue to stick and the wax seals the pores of the wood so glue will not stick.
I use the bottom of the candle & the wife doesn't notice.

Mo, with the shape of this hull it will not lift off the form. The stern area has a reverse taper i.e.: it is wider at the top (which is the bottom) than at the shear.
You will notice that I never glued the frame work (that holds the shadows) to the building frame. They are screwed to it. I will be unscrewing all of them and lift the hull with shadow frames and then remove them 1 by 1.

Hey Ed, Your Gar Wood is lovely. Hope this one turns out half as good!

This is getting to be a lot of planks! I have had to mill more twice.
We are also into the areas where you are shaping each plank to fit as well as still having to steam them to get the bend in the forward end.

Makes Sense on all points--Thank you for the explanation,picture and the notations.

What a BIG nice work,,,,,,look super,,,,,,,,,

Regards Bernhard

Yes, nothing beats a nice wood planked hull!

Thanks Bernhard, I decided to keep it to 1/6th scale because of all the things you can get in that scale & the TVR1A size is a good fit. Just hope it powers it well.

kno3, yes nicer than all frozen snot for a hull......

Ok more progress pictures!

Now we have to make the external bow laminations, keel laminations and the stern laminations. The aft planking also has to be trimmed.

Planking looks good.

Originally Posted by MILLERTIME

Planking looks good.

What he said ...

yep, looks fantastic! ever get a hold of the owners of the "prototype"?

Here are some more pictures I found of the Prototype on the water

Hi bg,
I never did have any contact with the owners of Holly Lyn but I have gotten along OK.
Thanks for the video & extra pictures.

As you will soon see I have not followed the Holly Lyn build/lines exactly so it is not truly an "exact scale" model.
For an explanation of my last statement I will refer you to Ronnie's statements on his web site. http://www.tinypower.com/index.htm

"EACH BOAT WE BUILD IS UNIQUE
Our steam launch projects are always one-of-a-kind, featuring unique styles, colors and components."

The strip plank building method allows alterations in key areas easily.
For example the bow shape can be altered by just changing the bow shadow mold. The one that is positioned fore & aft. You will see in the picture I have outlined the shape & spacing where the Holly Lyn is different from the ½ hull model.
You can see that I chose the shape of the ½ hull rather than the more modern bow of the Holly Lyn.
I am sure that when you are working with Ronnie, when he is building your full size boat, this is one of the many decisions that determine how unique yours is.

One of the tools I use a lot is the diamond cutting disks. You can get them in many sizes & thickness. This is a very safe cutting tool good for any type of materials.
I have a jig/tool setup for cutting balsa strips that introduced me to these thin kerf cutting disks and I have found lots more places where they are handy & safe to use.
I cut the aft planking off, sanded the bow & stern ends prepairing for the laminations and gave the hull a beginning sanding/scraping.

I did mention scraping didn't I?
I found that the quickest way to get a lot of the 1st surface epoxy removal accomplished.
You know, all the glue from the edge gluing.
It beats sanding and generating lots of epoxy dust!

So lets get some bow laminations on.
It's amazing what really good rubber bands can do.....

Here is one more set of tools I am going to show you.
Don't turn white & faint!
I know they look expensive now but not in the long run. Besides you can get them 1 by 1 if you need to.
With a small amount of care they will out last you! And save you time & money.
It's like having fresh sand paper all the time and no more buying sandpaper which in our climate turns usless quick.

This is the site and page of dealers in the US. Always check all the dealers prices as they do vary.

http://www.permagrit.com/dealers.php...k41k6rmhhajl76

At this point I decided I did not want the keel in place so that I could scrape & sand and get to the hull bottom planks easier. So the following are pictures of the sanded hull before the keel and final bow laminations were added.

What's the reason for that "lip" on both sides towards the stern?

I keep switching between the computers I have been using during that time set. I could've sworn I was taking video of the Holly Lynn during a little stretch when the boat I was on, Ronnie's, and the holly Lynn were pacing each other and the two captains were having a conversation.

just that comment is telling though y'know... two steamers, running at 3/4 throttle. about 25 feet from each other in the water, and a conversation was being held at normal across the room volume.
As I understand it, steam launches are still allowed in a lot of sensitive wetland conservation areas because the engines are so silent in operation compared to their Internal combustion cousins.

I know the model is a "stand off scale" reproduction, and I know liberties are to be had. My own "Hoffen" elliot bay fan tail launch is Loosely based off the Vaparosa wich is also a elliot bay hull, and is the last full steam engine vessel running on the rhine river. but it is barely scale to the prototype besides paint scheme, planking layout, and a few other concepts I've taken from pictures Ive found over the prototypes 20+years of service.

but hey, every little thing helps right?

Originally Posted by Reg Hinnant

Here is one more set of tools I am going to show you.
Don't turn white & faint!
I know they look expensive now but not in the long run. Besides you can get them 1 by 1 if you need to.
With a small amount of care they will out last you! And save you time & money.
It's like having fresh sand paper all the time and no more buying sandpaper which in our climate turns usless quick.

This is the site and page of dealers in the US. Always check all the dealers prices as they do vary.

http://www.permagrit.com/dealers.php...k41k6rmhhajl76

I too have a collection of Permagrit tools.
They are super and never wear out.
Even on fiberglass.
Well worth the investment. I just bought a few at a time.
This build is great!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Dave.

kno3, I do not know what the rear "lip" on each side is for. It will give the stern a slight larger % of surface area in the stern. You will notice that Ronnie built an earlier torpedo stern hull without that feature.
http://www.tinypower.com/boatstyl.htm

Thanks Dave, Years ago, I had purchased another brand of tool like Permagrit and was disappointed when the tool got dull after a few years use. It took a friend of mine quite a while to convince me to try one of the newer Permagrit versions and I am very pleased with them.

Ok ,ready to get on with it?

Anyone asleep yet?

If you get concerned about the hull shape, (who me??) you can always make a reverse shadow from each shadow mold and use it for checking the hull at the various stations.
BTW I am showing this one but not confessing nor showing anything else....

Lets get the keel & bow laminations on. They will both have staggered joints so must be put on together.

Gregg, first of all this lesson in planking has been very helpfull to me.
I enjoy planking boat models Very much, I spose it is like a therapy.
Scraping edge glue epoxy instead of sanding, Very smart, my trouble is sanding removes wood ( plank ) and not epoxy ... I will try scraping instead.
Great use of rubbuh bands.
Finally, a question: the side planking does not appear to be continuous, I see staggered butt joints at the bow, though no where in the build do I see anything other than planks that run full length...
Were the side planks not long enough, and you had to add ?
I bought special 1 meter planks for an Evelyn Rose so I wouldnt have to fight non-continuous plank issues and then later created simulated butt joints as there would be no planks long enough to run end to end on a real 50 foot boat...

Hey Tim,
The rubber bands are pure gum rubber, some I had left over from attaching wings to fusalages on R/C airplanes. They work much better than the first ones I was using that were left overs from the post office mail stacks. They were crap. I had one or two pop when I was trying to position things and afterwards too. It pays to use good tools........all the way down to rubber bands!
Read up on using scrapers. You can practice with single edge razor blades. They don't have to be sharp. Use with the blade on edge at 90° or so to the surface. A good write up here.
http://www.westsystem.com/ss/practic...-razor-blades/

Hummmm...... me thinks my photos need to be more out of focus!
You got real good eyes, Tim, but they are not butt joints. Scarf joints due to the idiot who cut some of his last poplar planks to 48" and was too cheap to buy another 6 foot board!
The hull will be fiberglassed and painted except for the top 2 shear planks left clear coated. (as n the full size)
If I was considering clear coating the hull I would have taken more care with wood color selection from the beginning. You will notice planks with a darker green cast to them in places.
But the interior will be left clear. (and you thought all the scraping & sanding was over!)

,,,Hey,,, can you not use very thin maghogny autside..it will look good and make the hull strong to .

Regards Bernhard

Hi Bernhard,
Yes I could but I prefer to be building in the same way as the builder of the full size.
Here is a picture of the full size after fiberglassing & paint.
I will be using West System epoxy with Lightweight Industrial Cloth with aerospace applications. Excellent for model building. Only .004" thick. Crowfoot weave, which contours nicely. Thread Count 60 x 58. Breaking Strength 125 x 120 lb./in. Finished Weight 3.08 oz./sq. yd.

Hi...OK..
it look to be the same stern ..that the one, you are working on

"Reciproca" - Steam Launch (4 min 16 sec)

OMG that looks like a coooooooool boat .....
MUST be fun....

Originally Posted by Reg Hinnant

Hi Bernhard,
Yes I could but I prefer to be building in the same way as the builder of the full size.
Here is a picture of the full size after fiberglassing & paint.
I will be using West System epoxy with Lightweight Industrial Cloth with aerospace applications. Excellent for model building. Only .004" thick. Crowfoot weave, which contours nicely. Thread Count 60 x 58. Breaking Strength 125 x 120 lb./in. Finished Weight 3.08 oz./sq. yd.

where is the cloth avalable from ?

thanks

Hi Bernhard,
That one is very close to this hull. Smaller & more narrow but same stern treatment.
Looks like fun but not as stable as the Holly Lynn. (check bgnome's videos)

Hi HS93
Good to see you here. I do not know of a supplier in the UK but I am sure there must be some. You would need to check suppliers that serve the composite aircraft builders because I got mine here. http://www.aircraftspruce.com/
http://www.aircraftspruce.com/menus/...ass_cloth.html
Hope that helps.

Im just waiting to see how you are going to reduce the width of the bow laminations without scratching the planks ...
in the secong pic in #65, I can see the bow / keel laminations are narrower as they travel aft, up to 1/16 wider on both sides at the front...

Tim B,
Here is another good write up on scrapers concerning epoxy.
http://www.westsystem.com/ss/scraper...ng-with-epoxy/
I will get some good pictures of the bow to keel area.
This area was hard to figure out how to shape because I have no pictures that show what that area looked like on the full size.


HS93,
I forgot to mention the even lighter cloth used on decks. It is 1.45 oz and available at the same place. Here is a good description on application of both types of fiberglass cloth on boat models.
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=329811

Tim B,
For a quick answer I will show you what I used. You will notice that the sanding surface does not extend to the edge of the sanding block. Used with care!

Next up is the stern laminations!

Looks like thats workin REAL GOOD ... very smart.

To me, it's always a shame such fine woodwork has to get covered up with a coat of paint.

Originally Posted by Kmot

To me, it's always a shame such fine woodwork has to get covered up with a coat of paint.

I agree..... it would look great with just a few coats of clear just to bring out the natural color ....

I compliment you on your wood work.

Ed

Thanks, Tim, Tom & Ed!
I'm trying!
Now for the stern laminations!

This one laminating job gave me more problems than any of the rest.
I ended up making a jig to clamp the 1/16th inch planks in. AFTER steaming them to shape!

I ended up laminating 2 at a time and laminated the pairs together one set at a time to end up with the whole piece.

OK, here we are back to the hi-tech clamping system. Glueing the assembly to the stern.
Sanding this down was more careful work than the others because of the inside curve of the hull on each side. It does not flow straight back where you could use a straight edge.

Sanded & faired hull.
I like doing this over several days because each day I find an area that needs improvement that I missed the previous session.

Will some one please tell me why one side always turns out better than the other?? And the only consistant thing is this: it is never the same side each day.......

More ?

Sorry gents, this one will be painted BUT the inside will be clear finished!

OK I forgot to talk about the hull flair in the stern. The overhanging planks were trimmed and a epoxy filler was used to make the fillet on the lower part between the hull & plank ends.
Added a few more bow pictures for Tim B.

Stay tuned cause whats coming up next is really sticky.

Awesome stuff there Reg. I suggest making some hard print copies of your photos of your woodwork because digital stuff can vaporize without warning.

Absolutely stunning!

and HUGE!

and yes, it is a shame to cover up such fine woodwork... but... its not bright wood work, and it is meant to be structural.

and what a wonderful structure it is

Great wood work, it's a shame to paint it.

This thread added to WOODIES: Wooden Pleasure Craft Build Logs listing.

Path: RCGroups -> Boats -> Scale Boats ->"WOODIES..."

Originally Posted by bgnome

Absolutely stunning!

and yes, it is a shame to cover up such fine woodwork...

yep yep yep

Brilliant work!

oh yesss

Originally Posted by Reg Hinnant

OK I forgot to talk about the hull flair in the stern. The overhanging planks were trimmed and a epoxy filler was used to make the fillet on the lower part between the hull & plank ends.
Added a few more bow pictures for Tim B.

I am beginning to suspect some alien technology at work here ...

alien technology???
Just a little frozen snot, the clear kind no less.....

Well guess everyone will be happy to see the next pictures.

I have been interested in trying West systems 207 hardener for clear coating. All I have used is the 206 slow hardener and what I had was turning brown in the can from age.
The 207 is clear and more self leveling.
I am using the E-Glass 3.16 oz cloth. I like using a 3" foam roller to wet the cloth down after smoothing the cloth over the dry surface. I get a more even coating that way instead of trying to brush it on.

I had an interesting experience due to heat variation during the day. (Weatherman did not predict the hi temp)

1st side went smooth and worked well. I started on the sides and worked the cloth down smooth and on the bottom I had to cut darts around the stern & bow. (started out in the high 70”s temp) by the time I got to the other side it was in the low 90’s and still climbing)

Use a new razor blade or exacto knife for trimming.

On the second side, by the time I was wetting the bottom (after the sides) it was becoming difficult to smooth out and my darts were messy, etc, etc. (by now it was up to 98 degrees & high humidity)

I got it done but with spots that will take a bit more sanding than the 1st side. After it got past the tacky stage I put on 1 more coat of resin and then waited & did the same a second time to fill the weave on both sides.

It will turn out good but will take a bit more work than normal.
As usual 1 good side and 1 mediocre side. Nothing that a bit more sanding won’t cure.

Where's the @%*#* popcorn!

These pictures give you an idea of how self leveling & smooth the 105/207 epoxy is. At this point the canoe builders sand smooth with 120 grit and then lay on 5 coats of varnish.

Now for my good news & your bad news......

To be continued after a short pause.........

Maybe you need to start work at midnight and work until morning.

Do I need to tell you how awesome that woodwork looks with a clear coat?