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Old Jun 20, 2011, 12:36 AM
CV-15 VB-16
giuseppi's Avatar
USA, TX, Friendswood
Joined Jul 2007
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Went out to the shop after my last post and put the model on the thrust stand. The ESC that came out with the 40mm had a JSC connector and the one that went in with the 30mm is identical to the other ESC, but with a Deans micro connector.

I mention this because I was unable to test with the 2S 350mah battery used in previous tests due to the different connector type.

I had a similar battery on hand, a Polyquest 400mah 2S1P 20C battery that was used for this series of tests. So, the data shouldn't be too far off from previous tests.

The model once again only made 30g of thrust.

Out comes the Xacto knife and the forward portion of the nacelle is removed.

I remount the model on the test stand, connect the battery and throttle up...90g thrust.

I chop the throttle and zero the scale. I apply full throttle and again 90+ grams of thrust.

After another two or three times running up to full throttle the thrust number begins to drop but is attributable to the battery's not containing a full charge.

I cleared the portion of the nacelle that was removed of all irregular surfaces/obstructions that were disrupting the intake of air and re-attached it with Titebond.

I'll charge the battery and re-test in the morning and post the results.

I'm really delighted to have built the thrust stand. It is an invaluable tool to have on hand. And best of all it was free, built from lumber discarded by the neighbors, and salvaged, and hardware on hand.

g
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Old Jun 20, 2011, 02:09 AM
Not enough hours in the day
Slaanesh's Avatar
Melbourne
Joined Feb 2009
2,427 Posts
Interesting findings.

The thrust stand is really a good idea for those wanting to tinker with different fans/motors and combinations, etc - I am lacking one in my inventory of tools.
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Old Jun 20, 2011, 12:38 PM
CV-15 VB-16
giuseppi's Avatar
USA, TX, Friendswood
Joined Jul 2007
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This morning I put together a 2S 180mah pack with the last two singles I have. I mounted the plane on the test stand with the 180mah connected and got readings ~ 50g.

The 400 mah pack that was used yesterday was still charging. With the pack still in the plane and plane in hand, I throttled up to see how it felt. It pulled some so I thought what the heck, walked out to the yard, and gave it a couple of tosses.

50g static thrust was not enough to lift an AUW of ~ 116g. On the second toss it hit on the nose pretty hard and pushed it in a bit. It also broke the servo tray loose so that is gluing.

I'm on hold temporarily before any more testing can be done.

I am encouraged in that the 240mah cells that are on the way should be close to the weight of the 180mah cells. So, a 3S 240mah pack should be about a perfect fit weighing ~ 18g and an AUW @ ~ 123g.

g
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Old Jun 20, 2011, 04:47 PM
CV-15 VB-16
giuseppi's Avatar
USA, TX, Friendswood
Joined Jul 2007
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Got the servo tray all healed and resumed testing.

Put the 2S 400mah 20c battery in the fuselage closed it up, mounted it on the thrust stand and the highest reading I get is 61g with mostly high 50g. Probably took five readings.

Out comes the razor saw and off with the front end of the nacelle...again. Back on the stand and...85g - 87g thrust. Did it this way four or five times with all mid to high 80g readings.

And to be sure not just any tube attached to the front of the fan has the same effect, I taped the inner cardboard tube from a roll of toilet paper (40mm ID) to it and got a 92g reading.

The front of the nacelle is an oval 28mm wide X 32mm high. The way the fan is mounted in the nacelle from the front of the fan housing to the front of the nacelle is 57mm (2-1/4")

I really want to retain the shape of the nacelle so next, after the glue dries I'm going to do some experimenting with intake ducting. I'm not sure if it's the oval or the drastic change from an oval to a 40mm circle.

Any ideas, anybody?

g
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Old Jun 20, 2011, 05:45 PM
Team30 Micro EDF
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Adelaide, Australia
Joined Apr 2004
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Can you grab a photo of it please Giuseppi?
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Old Jun 20, 2011, 07:42 PM
CV-15 VB-16
giuseppi's Avatar
USA, TX, Friendswood
Joined Jul 2007
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NitroCharged View Post
Can you grab a photo of it please Giuseppi?
I was hopin' you hadn't forgotten about me!

Here are a few pics. You can see the cut marks where the front section was removed ahead of the fan in the side views. That hump and taper toward the front are what I'm hoping to retain but what are causing all the problems. I think I see cheater holes in my future.

What do you recommend, Oh Wise One?

g
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Old Jun 20, 2011, 09:27 PM
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United States, PA, Grove City
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Originally Posted by giuseppi View Post
Hey, Bill. Nice Heinkel. Yeah, the dollar glider started it off then I couldn't find 'em for $1.00 anymore. So' it's become a different animal entirely.

What are yours' dimensions, power system etc.

I did some more surgery on mine this morning. I cut out the 40mm fan and replaced it with the just built 30mm. The glue is setting up now.

I have some single 240mah 20C batteries on the way from China. I'm gonna build a couple 3S packs. Maybe even a 4S.


g
The HE162 is around 22"span, 4oz AUW, with a Feigao powered EDF30 fan. It was done back when I had to cut out the 10mm hub, install my own hub, and then use GWS heli tail adapters to mount the rotor. I actually built 6 of those fans, and could knock one out in an hour, after building a few of them. Folks have it easy with these PNP 30mm fans now.

The 5866kv seemed to work the best on 3s lipo in the EDF30, which is what my other 3 EDF30 jets have. The 162 has the 7000kv I believe, or maybe it is 7500, either way being the highest kv that they made. It was a new motor release at the time, so it was an experiment to see if I could gain thrust. It runs fine on a small 3cell, but the small amount of gain was not worth the additional load on the tiny little 3s-300 Full River lipo. The batt got hot in it, while it was fine in my Vampire with a 5866kv fan. With the lipos out now, it's not a problem, but I only few it a few times, so as to not cook the precious little battery back then.


On thing I can tell you about the little 162 is that it is a nice flyer. The only oddity is giving a bit of an upward toss on launch, just like my Starmax 162, as the high fan pushes it downward until it gets up to speed.

Edit: Come to think of it, I think the wing was from a Cox FW190.
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Old Jun 20, 2011, 09:54 PM
CV-15 VB-16
giuseppi's Avatar
USA, TX, Friendswood
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Really good stuff there, Bill.

g
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Old Jun 20, 2011, 10:47 PM
Not enough hours in the day
Slaanesh's Avatar
Melbourne
Joined Feb 2009
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I like the idea of using the Xacto blade tube for a motor housing however I was wondering if it is necessary?
For example, the DP32 EDF has the stators glued directly to motor itself.
I believe the Kyosho DF45 does something similar with a custom 20mm motor that has the stators built into the actual motor.

With no housing, the motor gets the best cooling possible.

Anyone see anything wrong with doing this? Apart from the motor heating up and the glue becoming loose.
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Old Jun 21, 2011, 11:54 AM
CV-15 VB-16
giuseppi's Avatar
USA, TX, Friendswood
Joined Jul 2007
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Slaanesh View Post
I like the idea of using the Xacto blade tube for a motor housing however I was wondering if it is necessary?
For example, the DP32 EDF has the stators glued directly to motor itself.
I believe the Kyosho DF45 does something similar with a custom 20mm motor that has the stators built into the actual motor.

With no housing, the motor gets the best cooling possible.

Anyone see anything wrong with doing this? Apart from the motor heating up and the glue becoming loose.
I'm no expert and can find no problem at all with it.

You could use J-B Weld, a 2 part adhesive, which has a temperature threshold up to 500 F :

http://jbweld.net/products/jbweld.php

g
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Old Jun 21, 2011, 04:12 PM
Team30 Micro EDF
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Adelaide, Australia
Joined Apr 2004
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Giuseppi, I think the main problem is your motor is not strong enough (too small for the job). From what I see, it chokes the moment it encounters any resistance.
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Old Jun 21, 2011, 04:48 PM
CV-15 VB-16
giuseppi's Avatar
USA, TX, Friendswood
Joined Jul 2007
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Well, I'll find out soon enough, I guess, when this arrives.

AEO 10200KV Brushless Motor 30mm Ducted Fan EDF OM138
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Old Jun 21, 2011, 05:57 PM
CV-15 VB-16
giuseppi's Avatar
USA, TX, Friendswood
Joined Jul 2007
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NitroCharged View Post
Giuseppi, I think the main problem is your motor is not strong enough (too small for the job). From what I see, it chokes the moment it encounters any resistance.
Are you saying that it won't work because I don't want to trim the front of the nacelle or, even if circumcised it won't work.

g
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Old Jun 21, 2011, 07:45 PM
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United States, PA, Grove City
Joined Jan 2011
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Slaanesh View Post
I like the idea of using the Xacto blade tube for a motor housing however I was wondering if it is necessary?
For example, the DP32 EDF has the stators glued directly to motor itself.
I believe the Kyosho DF45 does something similar with a custom 20mm motor that has the stators built into the actual motor.

With no housing, the motor gets the best cooling possible.

Anyone see anything wrong with doing this? Apart from the motor heating up and the glue becoming loose.
It was necessary back when you wanted a 12mm Feigao inrunner powered 30mm fan, and the only 30mm fan housing available was the GWS EDF30 housing, made for a 10mm inrunner. There was also an expensive ourtunner retrofit kit, that used a bushing and twisted copper wire. You have it easy today with these off the shelf PNP fans. I built 4 jets with the setup, all still in flying order.

BTW, the beauty of the inrunners is that they run well from a single Castle ESC. The 262 has a single TBird6, and the A10 a single P10. I've at least 10 planes that run 2 inrunners from 1 Castle ESC.
Bill
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Old Jun 21, 2011, 09:01 PM
It's a spiderweb of knit lines
Souderton Pa. USA
Joined Mar 2002
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giuseppi
Make sure your intake is smooth. No radical changes in area from the intake to the fan blades. The fan needs clean air that is not turbulent.

Attachment is not mine. It was posted here several years ago. If you know who drew it please tell me so I can give proper credit.
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Last edited by mcross; Jun 21, 2011 at 10:32 PM.
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