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Old Apr 27, 2011, 03:57 PM
Boomer1
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Mantua Model Panart Venus R/C Sailing Yacht (880) Looking for info about this kit

Martin Richards, a fellow forum member, whom I hold in high esteem, and I were chatting about another boat, when by chance the Graupner Saphir came up. I was not familiar with this boat, so I did quick "google" search and found a number of links to "you tube" videos and some build reports/posts from different parts of the world.

I really liked the looks of this boat, and was interested in it, but having just finished building a Graupner Micro Magic, and not at all impressed with the quality of the fit of the hull and deck components of that kit. I was a bit dubious about it building another Graupner kit.Thus my concern that this kit might have similar issues.

In reading some old build reports, they mentioned that the Saphir hull came in a very rough form, and required a lot of prep work to get it even close to be ready to paint, so perhaps my concern was valid.

In subsequent conversations with Martin, he advised that the Saphir was his first RC build, and then shared with me they had been discontinued, which explained why I couldn't find any one selling them. I was a little disappointed as I really like the boats appearence.

With his vast knowledge of such things, he shared that the same boat kit was now being offered as the "Mantua Model Panart Venus R/C Sailing Yacht (880)" at Cornwall Models in the UK. See the photos below. The Venus has different graphics, but other than that, it appears to be the same boat.

In the pictures of the Venus kit, the hull looks to be very thin, to a point of concern. The Micro Magic kits are the same way.

Anyway, I would like learn more about this boat and/or any information on the Mantua Model Panart Venus R/C Sailing Yacht (880) you may have.

Please jump in with your comments - Thank you

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Old Apr 27, 2011, 04:31 PM
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Asturias, Spain
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Assuming they are identical, the basic hull moulding is about standard for ABS. As I mentioned in the other thread, the blow moulding process doesn't cope too well on the acute angles at the bow and transom. Otherwise there were no problems with the material. A stroke left me with one and a half useful hands, but even I found the build relatively straight foward and it was my first sail boat. The really thin plastic is reserved for the vac moulding of the cockpit interior, where it doesn't matter too much. The outside finish isn't all that rough and I think the stories of hours of sanding were to get a mirror finish. I'm not tat sort of a builder
The guys on that Dutch forum were very helpful and I took their advice on my second boat.
One difference is I think that that the rails and other "ornamental" fittings are included on the Venus whereas they would have been extra on the Saphir.
My handicap means that I have to use public transport and even at 36" LOA approx. and with version 2 with a removable fin, it was difficult to take to the lake, which was why I downsized to the RG65, along with the building process providing better physiotherapy.
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Old Apr 27, 2011, 06:00 PM
Boomer1
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The asking price from Cornwall is Euros: 203.86 (Inc VAT) / US Dollars: US$238.75 plus shipping, which makes this a little pricey for a 36" kit. That is close to the price of 1 M Seawind, which I'd have think would be the better of the two boats.

I am always on the look out for RC Yachts that I am not familar with and to learn about them. I like boats that have an authentic look and some detail.
So, the Saphir caught my attention, now the Venus.

Hoping some one that has one will see this thread and bring some good information forward.

Martin, I admire your staying with the hobby, and to working through your situation. We have fellow in our flying club that lost the use of his left arm. He to is an inspiration to all of us. He engineered and made a devise for his radio, that permits him to fly using only his right hand. He is a great guy, never complains and loves flying. He still builds airplanes, and continues to amaze all that meet him. I raise my glass to you both!

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Old May 24, 2011, 06:08 AM
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Hi Boomer,

I'm sailing a Voyager, the 12M ABS model, often with a bunch of Saphirs and I can keep up with them on all courses but downwind, where the Saphir gets on the plane and wizzes right by.

It's a shame the Venus is so expensive at your end, as I dare say it's a better sailor than the 1 M Seawind, which I've seen being smoked by Saphirs on numerous occasions.

Even my modified Voyager can keep up with a Seawind in more than a light breeze.
In low wind situations my Voyager needs more canvas to keep up with both the Saphir and the Seawind.

How's this for a reasonable price?
http://cgi.ebay.com/PANART-RC-VENUS-...item1e6331ee93

Regards, Jan.
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Old May 24, 2011, 08:50 AM
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Jan's Voyager is very much modified (details are in the sticky thread at the top of the page) and I think he would admit that out of the box and particularly with standard sails, he would have a real job keeping up with the Saphirs/Venus.
Another advantage is the Saphir's relatively short fin (about 5" from base of hull to top of bulb), which simplfies matters in shallow water. However it does tend to limit contollable sailing to moderat breezes. Even so running with a force 6 wind is exhilarating, with very little tendency to submarine.
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Old May 24, 2011, 01:19 PM
Boaters are nice people.
Sneek, Netherlands.
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I do, the stock Voyager 12M is a dud out of the box.
You can sail it, but it will not perform properly, the sailmaterial is crap.
Like a lot of kits, it needs a certain amount of TLC to make it into a good sailor.

Having said that, the stock sails of the Saphir/Venus work very well, a panelled set improves the performance though and these upgraded boats are giving my Voyager a very hard time keeping up.

Regards, Jan.
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Old May 24, 2011, 03:40 PM
Boomer1
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pompebled View Post
Hi Boomer,

I'm sailing a Voyager, the 12M ABS model, often with a bunch of Saphirs and I can keep up with them on all courses but downwind, where the Saphir gets on the plane and wizzes right by.

It's a shame the Venus is so expensive at your end, as I dare say it's a better sailor than the 1 M Seawind, which I've seen being smoked by Saphirs on numerous occasions.

Even my modified Voyager can keep up with a Seawind in more than a light breeze.
In low wind situations my Voyager needs more canvas to keep up with both the Saphir and the Seawind.

How's this for a reasonable price?
http://cgi.ebay.com/PANART-RC-VENUS-...item1e6331ee93

Regards, Jan.
I have not seen these boats in person, thus my reason for starting this thread to learn about them. In looking at the pictures of the boat kits, the hull and deck look to be made out fo ABS and BLOW MOULDED, rather than injection molded. This is a very inexpensive way to make things and may not be the best method for building RC yachts. In my view, the manufacturer should reflect their cost savings in their selling price. (one man's opinion)

This is the same process Graupner uses to make some of their boats, including their Micro Magic. I just completed a MM - while I am happy with the finished boat, being part German, I am embarrassed by the poor workmanship of the blow moulded hull and deck parts. They fit like two drunked sailors did the forming. If these boats have the same issues, I'd not be interested in getting one.

The MM design is good, the hardware provided in acceptable, and the darn things are amazing to sail. Still, I like to have both quality design and in manufacturing.

What is your take on Saphir/Venus quality? I am familar with the Thunder Tiger boats and agree with you that they need some TLC to make um seaworthy, same applies to their Victoria's, nice boat once you do some up grading. I have one for sale that has all the fixes completed. Can be seen in the classified section - if anyone is interested. Have to make some room for new stuff -

Thanks for the information guys!!
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Old May 24, 2011, 04:20 PM
Boaters are nice people.
Sneek, Netherlands.
Joined May 2004
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Hi Boomer,

The production method does leave the occasional thin spot in the hull.
It's advisable to put a strong light in the hull and check for these thin spots.

The nose and transom are 'infamous' among the Saphire builders.
Most take the trouble of reinforcing the thin sections with glasscloth and Stabilit Espress, which bonds very well with the hull material.

The Saphire is from the same designer as the MM, so it's no wonder she performs great.
It's the producer that partly spoils the boat by his choice of production method and the hardware that is sold with it, most of which is usable, but can be improved on, as goes for almost every kit.

Get your hands on one and sail her, you'll be pleasantly surprised.

Regards, Jan.
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Old May 25, 2011, 04:40 PM
Boomer1
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Jan
Good information - Thank you
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