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View Poll Results: What 2 Video Editors do you use most often?
Windows Movie Maker 19 31.15%
Windows Live Movie Maker (Windows 7) 12 19.67%
MAGIX Movie Edit Pro 17 Plus HD (MEP 17) 4 6.56%
Pinnacle Studio 14 or 15 5 8.20%
Arcsoft Media Impression 0 0%
VirtualDub 7 11.48%
Sony Vegas Movie Studio 21 34.43%
Adobe Premiere Elements 9 3 4.92%
Corel Video Studio 4 1 1.64%
muvee Reveal 8 1 1.64%
Shareware 1 1.64%
Other 17 27.87%
Multiple Choice Poll. Voters: 61. You may not vote on this poll

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Old Apr 24, 2011, 10:01 PM
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Generic RC Video Editing Software Tricks Tips and ISSUES

Hello Everyone,
Seems like a lot of us get a kick outta editing our RC Videos and making slide show videos with our photos.. I'm, no pro at all but have a couple years of Adobe Premier 2.0, experience, then experience with Pinnacle Studio 14 & 15 and recently I started trying to learn MAGIX Movie Edit Pro 17 HD.. I am certain there are some really professional Video Editors that poke around here on RC Groups .. I've seen some of your videos, they're great.. and there's a ton of 808 keycam vids that are phenomenal I think..

This thread is on some tech points on How To do the same on low end mostly Windows based editors.. no I don't have Final Cut Pro or and expensive video editor.. and a few free video editors are great and do exactly what you may ever want. There are many out there. I'm simply not familiar with any but for Windows Live Multi Media (WLMM) that's available on Windows 7 and the older WMM and a couple others..

My videos aren't great but I've learned a few things and I know many great minds on RCG are happy to share. If you have some patience and can tolerate a "heck if I know" reply at times... we can try to get you help in specific issues and compare problems with others more in-the know on what might be causing your particular issue(s) in your video edit software too.

I'd like to hear your personal Pro/ Con Quick reviews of your favorite Video edit s/w too. Please just post away and start you views and reviews.. i have no commercial stake in this at all and am going to be totally uinbiased if i can.,

I'll share some of my experiences, mostly on things that bit me along the way and would encourage you to chime in if you have some tips and techniques to solve some of the questions or more in-depth techie things on generic Video Editing for RC enthusiasts..

Tom Frank over on his No.11 thread has helped me a lot, and I'm going to try and twist his arm and let me re-post some of the PM's and tips on MEP 17 he's shared with me in particular.. He's said Ok . but I should veruify it's not in my h/w 1st.. well i think I have don that just about as bets i can for now..

So, Here Goes!..
JimS
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Old Apr 24, 2011, 11:13 PM
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1st some resources on RC Groups..

If you have a link to another thread that often discusses Video editing.. please do post it here..

the best one I am aware of is Tom Franks:
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1362692
excellent FAQ's on the No 11 cam in particular..

http://www.chucklohr.com/ has a great site oin all things 808 key cam related but it's on the cam h/w primarily.

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1115052
lotta references to video Editors in it ..
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Old Apr 25, 2011, 12:49 AM
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Ok I know .. there's not much here yet..

But who knows ..it could be of use to you some day..

Here is why I am using MEP 17+ HD..
I wanted an editor that was compatible with this cam:

http://www.bestbuy.com/site/Flip+Vid...&skuId=1159311

I like Pinnacle Studio 14 a lot ..used if for a couple years after dropping Premiere cause it would not handle AVHCD .mts video from my Canon HF-100.

Found that after spending hours some times both editing then rendering the clips I would get an error and no output. .. I called .. they have good phone tech support at Pinnacle.. and was disappointed to hear the Flip Mino HD video format is "incompatible" .. so I started looking for an alternative and got a No 11 cam almost purely by coincidence 2 months ago.

Tom Frank suggested MEP and I quickly saw why in the demo.. I could not believe ALL the bells and whistles in it and for a gadget geek like me, if i could get 1/2 of it to work.. it was well worth the cost. That hooked me cause it looks and feels great, all the windows are easily re sizable and it's timeline / multi cam modes workflow from edit thru Burn to Export in several formats is very intuitive I think.. The tutorials are sparse but it seemed Ok, I figured I'd just learn by doing it . I really like doing PIP videos so started trying to figure that out.

In the process found the program would lock up some times on the No 11 .mov files I was feeding it.. often it does this immediately after I load a file.. I assumed it was my hardware.. but pretty much everything else on it is solid.. so I contacted their support and was glad to see an immediate reply and ticket assigned to it.. reloaded all the h/w drivers I could including the video card's 3 times in different flavor's, and it still kept doing it, I'm dead tired right now, and will finish this part of the lockup saga tomorrow.. bottom line.. it's not locking up now. But in the process I did get all new DDR 3 Memory (12 Gb instead of 6) and ran a buncha optimization and registry clean up etc.. NONE of that fixed it.. but the same problem .mov files never lock up with other editors I have tried, and they play fine with Windows Movie Player (WMP) too.
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Old Apr 25, 2011, 07:04 AM
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Old Apr 25, 2011, 11:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jims123 View Post
But who knows ..it could be of use to you some day..

Here is why I am using MEP 17..
I wanted an editor that was compatible with this cam:

http://www.bestbuy.com/site/Flip+Vid...&skuId=1159311

I like Pinnacle Studio 14 a lot ..used if for a couple years after dropping Premiere cause it would not handle AVHCD .mts video from my Canon HF-100.

Found that after spending hours some times both editing then rendering the clips I would get an error and no output. .. I called .. they have good phone tech support at Pinnacle.. and was disappointed to hear the Flip Mino HD video format is "incompatible" .. so I started looking for an alternative and got a No 11 cam almost purely by coincidence 2 months ago.

Tom Frank suggested MEP and I quickly saw why in the demo.. I could not believe ALL the bells and whistles in it and for a gadget geek like me, if i could get 1/2 of it to work.. it was well worth the cost. That hooked me cause it looks and feels great, all the windows are easily re sizable and it's timeline / multi cam modes workflow from edit thru Burn to Export in several formats is very intuitive I think.. The tutorials are sparse but it seemed Ok, I figured I'd just learn by doing it . I really like doing PIP videos so started trying to figure that out.

In the process found the program would lock up some times on the No 11 .mov files I was feeding it.. often it does this immediately after I load a file.. I assumed it was my hardware.. but pretty much everything else on it is solid.. so I contacted their support and was glad to see an immediate reply and ticket assigned to it.. reloaded all the h/w drivers I could including the video card's 3 times in different flavor's, and it still kept doing it, I'm dead tired right now, and will finish this part of the lockup saga tomorrow.. bottom line.. it's not locking up now. But in the process I did get all new DDR 3 Memory (12 Gb instead of 6) and ran a buncha optimization and registry clean up etc.. NONE of that fixed it.. but the same problem .mov files never lock up with other editors I have tried, and they play fine with Windows Movie Player (WMP) too.
I, too, have MEP. Pinnacle products, however, make my skin crawl. Their software is the most buggy on the planet. That company owes me many many hours of time that it stole from me trying to get it to work. I had blue screens galore. The latest was mini HD tuner. It just flat stopped working and I can't even remove the software. Pinnacle raises my blood pressure.

Bill
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Old Apr 25, 2011, 12:35 PM
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Quote:
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I, too, have MEP... Pinnacle raises my blood pressure.

Bill
Wow, sounds like you had a fun ride with Pinnacle but I can assure you many use it every day and love it.. I know I did for a LONG time .. it really depends a LOT on your h/w compatibility with it .. and figuring that piece out in advance seems limited even with the demos out there.. I see we seem to have a lot of Sony Vegas folks taking the poll.. that s/w and others here I know nearly nothing about .. but I'm gonna get into the weeds on the MEP 17HD+ experiences and I can assure you some were and still are very frustrating too.. Perhaps we can help a little to prevent that tho.. by talking about solutions and work arounds as well as the show-stoppers. more on that soon.. JimS
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Old Apr 25, 2011, 08:12 PM
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MEP 17 Saga Part 1 pasted in from PM's f Tom Frank

Originally Posted by jims123
my MEP 17 keeps locking up..

generally I can load a clip .. or sequence of them .. but as i move the orange cursor.. is when it will freeze . once it' does I still have the keyboard and TaskManager shows no resources .. i can launch and run anything else in the task bar and I see no prob with other apps.. but MEP won'r play video, oe respond at all.. Occasionally this does NOT happen but since chatting last it has another 10 times and it's really frustrating

what's odd is it's doing it after a cold boot, with all other apps and processes that I can think of which might be interfering.. intentionally Ended ..
I will try to reach MAGIX support and see if there is any way to figure this out.. my other aps are Ok.. with exception of Reveal 8 which does have some similar lockup behavior at times..
------------------------------
Tom's 1st reply:
I'll be interested in what MAGIX has to say. They may want to know your editor preference set up. I still think the h.264 codec is partially responsible. I had an earlier MEP version (14 Plus), but versions 16 and 16 didn't handle the HD contant with H.264 codec very well. MEP17+ was the first upgrade that behaved pretty well on my system, but I still have an occasional lock-up, so the frequent "save project" tip is my best work around for now.

As an aside, I found on some recent editing with the #11 camera that when using an H.264 output codec the sound track is several seconds out of sync. Although this can be adjusted by either unlinking the sound track and moving it on the time line, or by delaying the sound track in the audio menu, it's still trial and error to get it right. I recall seeing this discussed in the MAGIX user forum a while back. I need to go get caught up there.
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Old Apr 25, 2011, 08:16 PM
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MEP SAGA PM 2 Part 2 contd

Originally Posted by jims123
There may be hope i can get past these lockups.. not sure yet.. it choked every time trying to mix the under water .avi and .MOV's over the past three days.. but I just ran thru edits of 1n hr's raw grandson 3rd Birthday footage and it was rock steady throughout.. Only difference was I reinstalled the Dell 435 MT Radion 4850 HD video driver.. sadly the raw footage now shows tears and distortion under WinMedia Player now,.. but it's perfectly fine now while playing back and working it in MEP.. that and the final rendered version is all that matters to me tho..

--------------------------
Tom's 2nd reply:
Interesting. I still have my prior Dell PC (might be the same model as yours) which had an ATI Radeon video card. Have you checked the Dell and ATI (now owned by AMD) web site for any firmware updates for the ATI card? I have an NVIDIA card in my current Dell, and it's had a firmware update or two within the last year or so.

I wonder if the combined editing of the MJPEG avi file with the H.264 MOV file had anything to do with it?
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Old Apr 25, 2011, 08:19 PM
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Part 3

Originally Posted by jims123
I spoke too soon,
it still locks on the .MOV's even If the pre-load Previewer doesn't show as "Empty"..
just had one lock.. This is soooo frustrating.. had my confidence all built up and WAM it did it again.. I HATE doing things twice.. it feels like losing a term paper on your wordprocessor.. cause even IF I have saved along the way a lot of times NOTHING shows up in the "last file loaded" option on launch

Tom if you get a chance one thing that would really help me is a How To on PIP.. I simply struggle for hours trying to get BOTH windows to display in teh PLAY mote I can "M"ute the video on one, and see the other correctly but can't see them both a the same time.. I never have figured out multicam either.. I wounder if I should start a Blind Leading the Blind thread on MEP 17 ? What Say? would you contribute in it?
Thanks for all your help,
JimS
-----------------------
Tom's 3rd reply:
Do the .AVI files that MP4cam2AVI creates also lock up? If not, then use those... the video is not re-encoded with that program. I'm not having very many lockups, fortunately. When you do a save, are you using the "save project" menu option. Then when restarting the program, using the "load existing project" should restore all your edits that were in place when you saved, and you can continue from that point on as if nothing has happened.

When using PIP, you just click on one of the options in the effect/design elements/PIP menu, such as the "2/1 left" icon, and drag/drop it on the video in the time line arranger section that you want to be on the left. Then do the same for the "2/1 right" icon, but drop it on the video you want on the right. You should immediately see both pictures in the preview window! That's it! But if you don't like the default size or position of a video, you can select it on the time line, then go up to the preview window and leftclick/drag the mouse to show a dashed outline, then release the mouse button and your video will now be in the box you just drew. If you can't get the exact location you want this way, you can also type in the values in the option box in the upper right window portion. The origin (0,0) is at the upper left corner of the window. So you just type in the offset distance from there to set the new image upper left corner position in the preview frame, then type in the width (or height) you want, and the new image size/location will appear. Repeat for the other image. The video that is lowest in the timeline will always be in front of any higher ones.

For the mlulticam mode, you MUST leave tracks 1 & 2 empty, then place your clips starting at track 3. 1 & 2 are reserved for the final output you create by clicking on the video in the preview you want display. Click any window in the preview frame to switch back and forth in the final output.

I doubt there are enough MEP users to warrant a new thread, but you can start one and see... the aerial photography forum may be the best place for that.
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Old Apr 25, 2011, 08:21 PM
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part 4

Originally Posted by jims123
Hi Tom , regarding:
Do the .AVI files that MP4cam2AVI creates also lock up? If not, then use those... the video is not re-encoded with that program. I'm not having very many lockups, fortunately. When you do a save, are you using the "save project" menu option. Then when restarting the program, using the "load existing project" should restore all your edits that were in place when you saved, and you can continue from that point on as if nothing has happened.//

Yes sadly what I found is that the same .mov that would lock MEP ..has the audio corrupted in the resultant MP4cam2AVI .avi output file.. and oddly it stuck in the audio from the 1st file in the batch of 10 I gave it to convert and linked it to the correct video in the output file it created instead..

It might show a log of this anomaly but I did not bother to look I will next time..

As to Saving Projects in process.. you are correct I DID find it thankfully after drilling down into the My Documents/MAGIX folder manually.. I was expecting they would show as the last saved project and what actually displays after these lockups I am having is the one prior in the initial IMPORT dialogue upper section. .. so it only looks like it was lost. That's a BIG relief..

and yes finally: what caused the lockup last was: to get around the fact the audio was corrupted.. I grabbed the next clip, and was finishing the video only to find I had grabbed the .mov not the .avi out and a minute into editing it, it locked yet again..

More on the saga later.. I'm sick of this too.. but thanks for the help Tom.. JimS
----------------------
Tom's 4th Reply
Are you re-encoding the AUDIO when you run MP4cam2AVI? If you don't I don't think you will get any audio. I think the audio in the .MOV file uses VBR (variable bit rate), which I think I read is not compatible in the AVI file. I always re-encode the audio to get constant bit rate. Not sure that has any bearing on your problem, though
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Old Apr 25, 2011, 08:24 PM
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part 5

Originally Posted by jims123
Tom
I'm in // these// in reply Regarding your:

...
The video that is lowest in the timeline will always be in front of any higher ones./// That is yet another good data point I haven spent hours in the position window.. and been assuming that there was some rime or reason to which video would have priority to overlay the other but have been trying to control what is displayed with "M"ute instead.. Is any of this happy stuff in a dang demo somewhere? I have yet to find it!//
Reply:
I learned early on by trial and error when stacking videos above each other that the bottom one is the one that always is played. So in multicam mode, since multiple videos are playing, it just seemed logical that the lowest one will have priority and be in front of any above it. Don't think I saw this written down any where.

For the mlulticam mode,
...
// Ok I did actually read the book on this section and did do almost exactly as stated.. but the was output I would actually get as built in 1&2 was multiplexed properly but upon display when I wen to edit it i could not figure out how...

Tom's next reply:

I always save the multicam video first right after creating it. Then reload and do any final editing... its much easier, assuming you have muted the audio during the original combination so the one you want to hear will be playing. I found that you can pause the video with the space bar and have the timeline pointer move to where you stopped the video. Then restart playing with the spacebar. For some editing, this speeds things up. like when switching which multicam you want... pause select which video and audio stream, then continue. The toggle is in the file/settings/program/playback window.

Also, look at the file/settings/keyboard shortcuts menu. That's the only place I could find how to jump to the previous/next key frame (with the keypad 4/6 keys, with numlock turned off)! But in stepping through a video frame by frame with the left/right arrow keys, it looks like this does the same thing!???.

I've never use any other commercial programs with the save level of features, so I don't appreciate that MEP is easier than the others to use as I read in user comments. Sometimes it is very frustrating, and if I don't need the fancy features and can do what I want with a simpler editor, I normally will go that route.
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Old Apr 25, 2011, 08:33 PM
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Pt 6

[QUOTE=jims123]
Tom,
well .. call me an idiot.. but I started the thread and now would like to seed it with some of the cool tips you have given me here.. is that Ok to do so??

Tom Frank reply:
If you can confirm they work for you to be sure we don't have hardware differences that affect the operation, then sure... go ahead.
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Old Apr 25, 2011, 08:51 PM
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What does this stuff in parts 1 to 6 really mean

Here's my assessment .. .MOV files are great, highly compressed compared to many other formats, they take a lot less memory to store on your keycam but some times the .mov file from a No 11 cam can get corrupted in a way that it will play fine in WMP and other video editors yet lock up your MEP app.. As far as ANY other editor lockign up on these .MOV's I have no feedback on that .. so it's apparenty a somewhat rare No.11 key cam issue only .. I edit AVHCD (.mts), .AVI , Flip Mino HD and lots of other older content types and seen no similar issue with MEP 17 working with those formats yet.. (uptate: I did have a .avi from my Sunglass cam lock MEP the other day.. it's only i of about 50 clips that has tho)

I tried ArcSoft's Impression on these particular bad files and they would view and edit just fine.. The Best way to tell in advance IF this will be a problem is to simply click once on a new file BEFORE loading it into the Timeline to edit it.. .. simply clicking on the file name in MEP should allow you to see it play in the monitor.. but if it doesnt play and you see a BLACK empty screen instead.. the .MOV file is likely corrupt .. you should also see a file name above the window that's the same.. not "EMPTY"..

Ok here's the other thing I learned in this process.. MAGIX's support was very responsive.. and even if they could NOT find the issue with their syscheck.exe utility it helped a lot..Tom Franks help was also outstanding.. But the real work around for me in the future will be to simply use the MP4cam2AVI utility which has a Batch convert option and convert them ALL from .MOV to .AVI BEFORE I load any of them into MEP and risk yet another lockup.

Well now that I have used MP4cam2AVI to batch up and convert a lot of .MOV files.. a few more time i don't like it as much .. it solves the MEP lockup issue, but while I slide the cursor on the time line I see a lot of Blank areas.. these don't appear in the final but do make editing a but cumbersome where you can't see an image.
Hope this helps.. JimS
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Old Apr 25, 2011, 10:28 PM
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Jim,

I have no problem with .MOV files with the trial version. My system is a I7 HP laptop with 6 gig of ram.

Bill

Quote:
Originally Posted by jims123 View Post
Here's my assessment .. .MOV files are great, highly compressed compared to many other formats, they take a lot less memory to store on your keycam but some times the .mov file from a No 11 cam can get corrupted in a way that it will play fine in WMP and other video editors yet lock up your MEP app.. As far as ANY other editor lockign up on these .MOV's I have no feedback on that .. so it's apparenty a somewhat rare No.11 key cam issue only .. I edit AVHCD (.mts), .AVI , Flip Mino HD and lots of other older content types and seen no similar issue with MEP 17 working with those formats yet..

I tried ArcSoft's Impression on these particular bad files and they would view and edit just fine.. The Best way to tell in advance IF this will be a problem is to simply click once on a new file BEFORE loading it into the Timeline to edit it.. .. simply clicking on the file name in MEP should allow you to see it play in the monitor.. but if it doesnt play and you see a BLACK empty screen instead.. the .MOV file is likely corrupt .. you should also see a file name above the window that's the same.. not "EMPTY"..

Ok here's the other thing I learned in this process.. MAGIX's support was very responsive.. and even if they could NOT find the issue with their syscheck.exe utility it helped a lot..Tom Franks help was also outstanding.. Buy the real work around for me in the future will be to simply use the MP4cam2AVI utility which has a Batch convert option and convert them ALL from .MOV to .AVI BEFORE I load any of them into MEP and risk yet another lockup.
Hope this helps.. JimS
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Old Apr 25, 2011, 11:22 PM
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Jim,

I have no problem with .MOV files with the trial version. My system is a I7 HP laptop with 6 gig of ram.

Bill
Great.. How many have you edited so far.. just curious?
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